Thoughts On This 1870-cc Seated Quarter

World67

I'll weigh in before any responses. I'm not a fan, but at the same time, sometimes you have to take what you can get with these early CC issues. It seems like it has some degree of environmental damage and someone got lucky and it straight graded. Trueview and sellers photos. What do the experts think? @rhedden

2windy2fish

I personally like the coin, it is certainly original and has not been messed with

fathom

Big time environmental damage.

rhedden

It has slightly rough surfaces and is a touch dark for some peoples' tastes. You have to consider what else is available for this date, though. Too many people get used to looking at more common coins, and they start to think they only want to own material that meets CAC approval standards. With the rare CC quarters, you have to change your mindset a little.

The 1870-CC through 1873-CC quarters were early products of the Carson City mint, and they had a rough life out west. Most are damaged, repaired, or cleaned. If you insist on CAC-only, here's what you have to choose from in the Fine-XF grade range according to the CAC pop. report:

F12 - 1
F15 - 0
VF20 - 1
VF25 - 1
VF30 - 0
VF35 - 1
XF40 - 1
XF45 -0

Taking a little closer look, here are some images (direct link to Heritage archives) of a VF35 CAC sold in 2009.

This CAC-approved coin has black spots and toned-over scratches. It isn't perfect. All of the available examples that did not get CAC beans likely have worse surface problems. 1870-CC quarters are not Morgan Dollars that sat protected in a vault for 80 years before being discovered. By the way, good luck prying one of these CAC coins out of the hands of whoever stepped up to buy it.

Back to the original coin, it's in a VF30 holder and has somewhat below average surfaces (for Seated quarters overall). It has decent average surfaces for an 1870-CC, though. There are no ugly scratches or blemishes. There may be some tiny rim problems if you blow up the True View and really scrutinize it. **In my opinion, it was dug out of the ground and professionally conserved. **Still, it's a much above average example of the date, so how can you not like it?

My assessment is that this coin is worth VF money, despite its surface issues. Whether you want to pay VF20 or VF30 money is a matter of personal opinion. It is sitting in a VF30 holder. One thing I can say for sure is that the owner of this coin has a better 1870-CC than the person who chooses not to collect them because there aren't any "perfect" examples available in their price range.

World67

Thanks, I value your input.

fathom

Wow I disagree. TPGs blow it when these get through straight. I would much rather have a cleaned details coin with a few marks then a coin that is borderline porous. I understand the rarity and cc surface reputation of most specimens. But that does not explain away significant environmental damage.
So there are fewer coins that meet the established grading standards, so be it.

World67

This is my 71-cc for comparison. It's in a VF details slab as "environmental damage"

291fifth

If the price is reasonable go for it. This is not an 1881-S Morgan Dollar that is being offered.

semikeycollector

MD

This is a very tough date, especially in upper middle grades. However if you don't like it now, you won't like it a year from now. Your other coins are so much nicer and the 71-cc is not black. Not so easy to sell unattractive coins either.

may

It looks nice, and the graders were certainly biased. (not a bad thing) IMO it's one of those coins I would like raw.

World67

I ended up getting this coin as an upgrade for my G6. It looks much better in hand. Not as dark and NO porosity. I still think it was probably a ground recovery but I'm happy with it. It's a major upgrade for my set. Now I need to find a 71-cc in VF.

logger7

Very hard to find these with universally appealing look.

jesbroken

Disregarding value and comparing only look, I would prefer OP's coin to the VF35 CAC coin by far. JMO
Jim

Crepidodera

Congrats on the upgrade Don! A straight graded VF 1870-CC quarter is a rare critter.

Doug

golden

I like it.

jughead1893

congrats !

World67

@rhedden A lot of 70-cc quarters have popped up lately.

rhedden

The first coin might be new to my photo archive, though I have to take a closer look at all the other coins in this grade range to make sure it's not a duplicate with different-looking photos.

The second coin (Navy Mustang) used to be NGC VG10, so someone crossed it.

The third coin (VF20) has been around for a while in that holder.

There are now 94 examples of 1870-cc quarters in my photo archives. The caveat is that a "new" coin comes up every once in a while that is actually a doctored version of a coin that was formerly in another holder (usually Details). These pieces can be difficult to detect from photos. I need to take a good look through the archives and make sure that nothing has been double-counted.

World67

@rhedden said:
The first coin might be new to my photo archive, though I have to take a closer look at all the other coins in this grade range to make sure it's not a duplicate with different-looking photos.

The second coin (Navy Mustang) used to be NGC VG10, so someone crossed it.

The third coin (VF20) has been around for a while in that holder.

There are now 94 examples of 1870-cc quarters in my photo archives. The caveat is that a "new" coin comes up every once in a while that is actually a doctored version of a coin that was formerly in another holder (usually Details). These pieces can be difficult to detect from photos. I need to take a good look through the archives and make sure that nothing has been double-counted.

The first one is from a recently closed DLRC auction. You can see better pics on their website. They have three 70-cc's in past auctions to look at.

World67

Funny, two more popped up this evening. I've never seen so many for sale at one time. @rhedden

rhedden

I had both of these pieces in my photo archives already, but thanks for posting the new photos.

barberkeys

Congratulations to the OP on the upgrade, a very acceptable example of a true rarity IMO.

The CAC'd 35 shown above looks a whole lot better (and I'd venture more like what the coin actually looks like) in HA's slab photos. Here are pics of the CAC'd 25, from the Iowa Collection.

World67

They've been coming out of the woodwork lately.

Copperindian

This one’s in the GC auction tomorrow (current bid - $18500):

Bidder caution: the ID# shown doesn’t come up in the PCGS system.

rhedden

The PCGS VF25 CAC coin in the Iowa collection used to be NGC VF25 and was sold by Heritage at some past point. It looks to be one of the nicer circulated examples out there.

7Jaguars

How is that VG 10 coin not cleaned, well BLANCHED, and scrubbed? I don't care if it is somewhat rare, that IMHO is ridiculous and a most unattractive coin with all apologies to the consignor.

World67

@7Jaguars said:
How is that VG 10 coin not cleaned, well BLANCHED, and scrubbed? I don't care if it is somewhat rare, that IMHO is ridiculous and a most unattractive coin with all apologies to the consignor.

In my experience TPG's will straight grade cleaned coins as long as the cleaning didn't leave hairlines, and they tend to "market grade" them. The VG10 has F12 details.

Copperindian

Hammer down on the GC auction - $20812.50 w/BP.

fathom

About the same as in the Heritage 2022, same coin.

cccoins

@rhedden - Here is my xf40, that I posted a while back. Do you know the history / provenance of it?

Thanks for your time!

LJenkins11

Great looking first year CC! You have the famous 1872-CC over 1870-CC. Simple error at PCGS.

rhedden

Beat me to it with the TrueView error! I was shocked when I looked it up.

I did not have this coin in my records, and it looks to be one of the nicest XF examples out there. I can't trace it to a re-holder or crossover operation from the past 10 years. Thanks for sharing the images!

Crepidodera

@cccoins said:
@rhedden - Here is my xf40, that I posted a while back. Do you know the history / provenance of it?

Thanks for your time!

That's a great looking 1870-CC!

Doug

World67

Yeah, that's a nice one!

World67

Another one popped up. They're everywhere lately. This seems like a nice one.

jdimmick

That cac 40 is awesome example

cccoins

@rhedden said:
Beat me to it with the TrueView error! I was shocked when I looked it up.

I did not have this coin in my records, and it looks to be one of the nicest XF examples out there. I can't trace it to a re-holder or crossover operation from the past 10 years. Thanks for sharing the images!

I think that I bought it in 2010 / 2012. I can look it up later. It was in the holder when I bought it, but sent it into CAC a few years later.

WCC

Multiples of a scarce coin showing up for sale in close proximity indicates someone might have been hoarding it.

World67

The NGC AU50 above went cheap it seems.

Crepidodera

Don,

As NGC AU50, it was more like XF, so the price was about right.

Doug

World67

@Crepidodera said:
Don,

As NGC AU50, it was more like XF, so the price was about right.

Doug

You have a good point. NGC is almost always a grade or two more loose than PCGS. They tend to be more lenient on cleaned coins also in my experience.

Prices for higher end 70-cc's are dropping too. 71-73-cc prices are rising though.

World67

Yet another one pops up.