Feedback wanted on how I listed this 1980 Topps Basketball Base Set
detroitfan2
Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭✭
Here is my listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/266395216579
It sold within hours, I shipped it on Friday, somehow the guy got it today (Labor Day) via USPS. Within minutes of opening it, he messaged me and said "there's no Bird / Erving / Magic card, please advise" and opened a return case.
Thoughts? I know this is a confusing set issue, but I scanned EVERY card and gave a detailed description of what was included.
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I looked through all the pictures you posted in the listing. Unless I missed it, there is no card with Bird, Johnson and Erving on it. There are cards with one or two of them but not one with all them on the same card.
James
i also do not see the big three card.
You might be able to plead your case with ebay since you technically listed which cards were included and which were not, but in my experience there's a lot of people who don't look at all the pictures if there's a lot, or read all the description. I would think that card was included if I bought that set unless it was specifically mentioned and obvious, not hidden in the vast information overload. I have a bird only card and one with all 3 and the bird only card doesn't feel as special to me.
I think I would allow a return. I hate it as a seller when the buyer misunderstands what they're buying.
You will be required to do a return. Next time, I highly recommend you say the big card isn't in there. In fact, if you said that in your title, there will still be buyers who say they want a return because the big card isn't in there even though your title specifically says that.
I recently sold a floor sweeper that was missing the big yellow handle and I put that in my title and description. Wouldn't you know, I got a return request because the big yellow handle was missing.
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Wait, you accept 30 day returns, so there is no issue in that regards, but I guess the issue is who pays shipping. Your pictures are obviously correct, though your title with Bird Magic together could be misleading (since it is just in the general collection psyche that they are both on the same card). For the relist I would put at the beginning that it includes each separately, but not the iconic card together. Your description requires a buyer with a college education
Hey All, I am definitely giving a refund, I'm just wondering if I could have done more to be clear about the listing. I do find it odd that someone would spend $550 on a set without even seeing a scan of the card they "thought" was included.
The main issue is that you listed it as a complete base set.
It is a complete base set. All 264 "mini" cards are included. I don't know what else to call it.
I understand that but when you say complete set people automatically think it will have the key cards including the Bird/Johnson/Erving card
It's sad that most seem to be siding with the buyer and his assumptions.
Buyer got excited by the price and thought he had a steal and recklessly bought it without reading the description or looking at the pics.
Buyer shouldn't be let off the hook. He needs to be accountable and responsible.
Teachable moment.
I do kind of agree. If the roles were reversed, there is no way in heck I would ask for a return after reading the listing again, regardless of how I felt about the listing. Buyer has 37K+ feedback, so he's been around the block a few times and should know better. That being said, I will try again and update the listing to be more clear that the Bird / Erving / Magic card is not included. There are several 1980 basketball sets that have the 264 cards separated that sell for $200+, I thought folks could understand that you can get all 264 cards without separating them.
Thanks for the feedback all.
My post wasn't siding with the buyer. All I was saying is that ebay will side with the buyer. There are no teachable moments for buyers, only teachable moments for sellers.
I will also say that the buyer should not return this item "not as described". That way he will have to pay return shipping and you have the choice to keep your initial shipping charge. If he did log this as "not as described", I would call ebay and see if they could change that. I've been successful with this tactic.
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Didn't think of it earlier, but why do you call it a base set? It's not like there are parallels or other "special" cards that aren't part of the "base" set for this year. No subsets, etc. It's just a set. By saying base set it implies that it is the definitive standard issue, which of course is not true here since there is technically TWO sets in the "base set" if you have all the combos. So really you are selling only half a base set
There are the team posters.
I'm sure the other poster would insist that the seller list that "oh by the way, not only is the Bird/Dr J/Magic card not included, but the team posters are not included either."
It's silly, and contributing to the dumbing down of society, that we have to not only list what IS included but also what ISN'T included, otherwise we reward the buyer for their screw up? Do we give a participation trophy too?
Buyer got exactly what was listed. Buyer beware.
This is why I don't accept returns.
This is an interesting observation. I consider all 176 panels, which contains 2 full sets of 264 mini cards, a master set. So by default I was considering something that isn’t a master set a base set. I did that specifically to imply the buyer wasn’t getting everything possible, just all 264 mini cards. But again my attempt to be clear added confusion.
Also I used the terminology from this checklist:
This is all Topps fault by the way! I’m proud of myself for figuring out the 8 groupings, I have never seen this published anywhere. I’m still trying to figure out the print run though. 176 cards on sheets that hold 132 cards means there must be double or triple prints somewhere.
I agree that the buyer shouldn't have bought without knowing what he was getting, but I found the description impossibly confusing. I'd expect most customers to completely ignore the listing.
A tl;dr would have been invaluable.
What part did you find "impossibly confusing"?
Nope. If the description is too long to read for the lazy buyer, don't buy.
Way too many making excuses for the buyer.
Remember the old adage, if the deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Reading is FUNdamental.
Teachable moment for the buyer.
Ironically, you couldn’t understand me and I had to google “tl;dr”.
I do not disagree that it is confusing, but it is accurate. I will relist it with a much shorter explanation and be clear the Bird and Magic rookies are included but they are not on the same panel. If I should sell it again, I will also contact the buyer before shipping to confirm they will understand they’re not getting a $600 card as part of a $500 set.
And I do appreciate the feedback.
I'm not making excuses for the buyer at all. But there are many buyers out there that purchase something before completely understanding what is included. Most of my returns are from buyers that just didn't read my title correctly. It's sad, but reality. The buyer is certainly in the wrong here, but ebay will require the seller to accept a return.
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Let's be fair. Teaching moment for both the buyer and seller. The listing probably should have been for a lot of 88 cards and not listed as a complete set. Buyer should not have snap bought the listing, based on the fact that 88 cards do not make a complete set and assumed as such,.
Is this listing misrepresented by saying it's a complete set:
https://ebay.com/itm/266340516532
Because my listing contains the same exact 264 cards, they're just not separated. It is not a random lot of 88 cards. All 264 mini cards are present, including the Bird and Magic rookies. I don't know what else to call it, I really don't.
I believe your listing is misleading by stating it is a complete set and showing pictures of unseparated pannels. Everyone who would collect this set (well, let's say 99.9%, because a wise man once said only a sith deals in absolutes) would consider a complete set to be all 176 3-card pannels, not 88 pannels that make up each individual 264 perforated minis. To me, this is an 88 panel lot with no duplicates.
In the listing you just provided, it is clear that what is being sold is each individual mini card, separated from the 3-card pannels. That listing correctly identifies that they are 1-264, separated. I would never buy that listing, as I (along with 99.9% of the people who would want this set) do not want a separated set because I do not recognize it as a complete, unaltered set.
If ebay does, they are certainly in the wrong also. On what grounds? Not as described? The buyer got what was described. Not the sellers fault the buyer was confused and impulsive. If the buyer wants to do a straight return, and the seller allows it, then fine. But ebay's involvement and decision should have no impact on the return.
I don't feel that the term "base set" is as universal as you think, especially for older cards. It is more of a term for modern collectors with all the parallels. The buyer may have thought when you said base set, it might imply a master set, which again is not a term used for older cards... I did forget about the posters, but those are not cards.
And again, for a base card, there needs to be a non-base card, which isn't the case here,(it's just the re-jumbling of "base cards), but the flaw being that you can't say one 3 card combo is base and the other is not. Lastly the cardconnection list is sort of right in that the base of the set is the 264 cards INDIVIDUALLY, as they only list the individual card, not the 3 card combo's.
On the relist, maybe do a pic that only shows the single Magic and single Bird... Of course you would think that the buyer would have looked for that.
I could understand, but it made my head hurt. And I'm not making excuses for the buyer. Far from it. Just saying that I wouldn't have invested the time to figure out what you were selling and would have just moved on to the next sale. And, as you likely know, there are many, many people who are only on eBay to buy "a $600 card as a part of a $500 set."
And to answer your implicit question, I think that deluxe3333 is misleading in listing his loose cards as a complete set. I really don't think the hobby considers those little things complete cards. Does PSA grade them? And he makes sure you understand that they are separated.
The > @RufussCkingston said:
I believe this was one possible part where the buyer read into it and ignored the pictures and descriptions. @RufussCkingston honed in on "bird/magic together" which almost seems like verbiage meant to possibly steer them to making the impulse buy without further reading into it. I'm not saying it's why you stated it this way but I would state it this way if I wanted to try and dupe somebody...which is not something I would do.
Auctions which say "you are buying everything in the pictures" is pretty clear and I'm not sure if eBay would support the seller in this type of situation if you stated it.
You could always ask the buyer what made him believe it was in there, respectfully, and get the answer directly from the person who didn't understand your intent. Correcting the auction to make it idiot proof for that buyer isn't going to make it idiot proof for all buyers as you know, hence why you are getting a pulse from the group and I commend you for taking the time to get the feedback.
As many of you are aware, I have been the idiot buyer. Sometimes what you WANT to buy and what you THINK you are buying is not at all what you are buying. It doesn't help when a seller is also misinformed but this isn't the case here.
Sometimes saying less is more and this may help to say
"You are buying X number of cards which are all represented in the pictures"
Good luck.
I'd be willing to bet the buyer jumped on this without doing a lot of research into the listing, especially if it was a new BIN listing. Again, assuming that they felt this was a deal that could disappear in seconds and probably couldn't hit the BIN button and pay fast enough for fear someone would steal it out from underneath them. I've been there myself.
They do need to take some of the blame for that, in my opinion. However, there is a lot to read in that description, in stark contrast to most listings that give little to no information. Still, in the world we live in now of "TLDR" (which I think is stupid, personally), you really should have made it perfectly clear that the big card was not there.
Not saying this was your intent, since I don't know you, but It's almost like you purposefully overwhelmed the potential buyers with so much info, but conveniently left out the fact that THE card wasn't part of the "set". That is the other thing that stuck with me, using the word "set" is confusing, since the big card would certainly be consider part of the set to most buyers regardless of how you spun the description and defined "set" in this case.
All the more reason for the buyer to think the 'big card' was NOT included, because if it was, certainly the seller would make it the focal point, list it first, be the first pic, etc.
If I, as a potential buyer, didn't see the 'big card' upfront or even mentioned, my spidey sense would be tingling.