What would you do? (eBay / general selling tactics)
U1chicago
Posts: 6,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was just curious to hear what others would do in the following situation:
You list a coin for 1,400 without an offer option to test the market. If it sells at that level, there is close to 300 in profit to be made. Someone messages you asking for a best price after several days. You check their feedback and everything looks fine. Knowing there is some room, you decide to give them a deal at 1,200. There is no reply back. Over the course of a few weeks, the coin is not selling so you lower the price down to 1,100, which is closer to cost. The same person from before messages again with the same message asking what is the best price. How do you reply this time?
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Comments
$1100
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This is an interesting idea because clearly you’re selling a stale coin that you’ve overpaid for. Sounds like the buyer is more astute as to the actual value. Ebay sellers I know would raise the auction price back to $1400, then send a direct offer to that buyer at around $1100-$1200. Prepare to take a loss on the coin because of seller fees. Cut it loose and move on.
It’s hard to say if they are astute or just someone wasting time since they never gave an idea of what they wanted to pay.
I’m always left wondering by the people that ask for a best price without any other communication. A price is already given, so just make your own offer instead of making a seller negotiate against themselves. And when you get a best price, at least reply with a thank you but I’ll pass or I’ll pay $x amount.
There are certain people who will expect a lower price no matter what you listed it for. If you feel the price you have it listed for is fair or actually a deal, respond with $1100. If you are thinking you overpaid and just want to get out of it, sell at auction and take the lumps or give the person a lower price.
But I personally wouldn’t keep negotiating against myself. A few weeks on eBay to find a buyer isn’t enough for me to keep dropping prices unless I know for sure I overpaid.
My Ebay Store
I agree that a few weeks on eBay isn’t enough to determine if an item is stale when it’s not a generic coin (i.e. it’s not a silver Eagle or a blast white MS 65 Morgan, which would have an established price). I do lower prices when something isn’t moving but I have a floor that I’ll stick with for some time after the initial price is lowered. If someone did offer an amount close to that floor, I would consider taking the offer but I’m not the biggest fan of negotiating with my own prices.
The first post and that is what I wrote back. I didn’t receive any reply again. We will see if the person asks the same question a third time.
Selling coins on eBay at a loss, you say? First, you had my curiosity. Now you have my attention.
peacockcoins
How so? You’ve been there too?
eBay is plenty of fun isn’t it?
Edit: on a related note, I’ve offered most of my eBay items on the BST here for less but I’m guessing those that send the question on eBay aren’t on CU or don’t check the BST.
Delete.
Yes, of course.
Many auctions close at less than my cost.
But a BIN with a purposeful price less than my cost?
I haven't experienced that yet.
peacockcoins
I would hardly call a coin "stale" after a "few weeks".
Astute? LMAO. Maybe. Or maybe he's just a bargain hunter who will low ball any number.
I had a comic listed last week. NEW listing. It was listed at $249. I sent an offer to someone at $225. He countered me at $150. It sold the next day for the full $249.
Over the weekend, I had a comic that had been sitting for a month or two. Ask was $225 I had sent a couple 10% off offers. One person ignored it. The other was countered at $125. [I almost blocked him.] It sold for the full $225 over the weekend.
You have to trust your own astuteness when it comes to price setting. If it is a common widget, it is easy to gauge your price relative to all the others on eBay. If it is a thinly traded item, then you have to expect that it may take some time for the right person to find it.
After you responded to the request the first time with a a lower offer and there was no response...I would have then ignored them, block them, and move on.
If they persisted before I blocked them I would even increase the price.
I decided to give the person the benefit of not blocking because their history of leaving feedback for others was positive. If I saw that they were leaving negative feedback for sellers, that would be a sign to block.
I didn’t use the word astute myself but was replying to another post that suggested the buyer might be astute. I agree with you that asking for a best price is hardly astute. If there was more to the message or at least a reply of some sort, I would be more willing to entertain the idea of the person being astute.
I usually set my floor at breakeven but I have lowered some BIN listings below cost if they have sat for a while. I’m willing to take an “acceptable” loss compared to going the auction route and risking a big loss if the right people don’t see the listing.
Despite madman giving the guy more credence than we know he deserves, some people just will never pay the listed price no matter what.
A couple of years ago, I had a PCGS commem listed at just below greysheet. Guy messages me and offers 20% back. I said, that's sub-wholesale. He said, "why would I ever pay retail?" I responded, "you could at least pay wholesale."
Last week, I sold a Canadian double $ set. It has roughly 41 grams of sterling silver in it. I had it listed on eBay for $39.99. After fees and shipping, that's about $27 net which is pretty much scrap value. Someone messaged me and asked if I would take $35. I said, respectfully, that I really couldn't because it would be better for me to scrap it than ship it at that price. He bought it for the full $39.99
Some people are just trying to get a better price. Some people are trying to get wholesale (or less) so they can flip it. Some people are hoping to take advantage of ignorant sellers. I can't tell you how many times someone has offered me less than melt for bullion.
I had a very beautiful NGC star Morgan listed on ebay for well over a year, it's was listed at $850 BIN. I had several offers on ebay for $500 - $600 and could have sold it for that and still make a profit. I took it to several shows and dealer offers were around $400 to $500. I knew the coin was better than that. I raised the price to $1200 OBO and within a week had an offer for $1100, I took the offer and there was no problems with the sale.
Raise your price!
Yes, I know. I was scoffing more at madman's characterization. Someone offering less than your ask is not automatically astute. Some people will ALWAYS ask, even if they end up paying full price.
I had a guy a few weeks ago who asked for my "best offer" on a raw coin. It was listed at $9.99, I offered it to him at $7.50. He countered me at $7. I declined. He messaged me and said he would take it at $7.50. I said, "I'm sorry, that offer has expired." He had a feedback of 2 or 3. He responded, "oops. I guess I learned a lesson." I mean, you are wasting my time for 50 cents when I already gave you a 25% discount.
Simply just ignore the "no offer." No reason ever to waste time on such types.
I know a couple of sellers who raise the price when it doesn't sell. That strategy seems to work for them.
That's a little aggressive for my taste but you can't argue with success. They're not trying to make friends.
There was a local comic book shop in Rochester a couple decades ago. They had 50% off every Sunday and the place was packed. When I got to know the owners, I asked him about pricing. He priced at 2x guide + 10%. So, even on 50% off Sundays, he was 5% over guide! But the buyers lined up all day on Sunday.
Another time, a friend of mine said he had some comics that weren't moving. The owner told him that when something wasn't moving, you needed to raise the price. People would think it was going up in value and jump on it before it went up higher. [Interestingly, that is the reason why the Fed has a 2% inflation target and not 0%.]
$1099 😃
I have tried to increase the price several times but haven’t had it work yet. I also tried those eBay promoted listings where you pay a higher percentage to get better visibility. That hasn’t led to a sale either (in part I’m guessing it doesn’t help much for an item that is more unique since those searching for it would find it anyways and others wouldn’t search for it so it doesn’t get that many more views from being promoted).
I think I will try raising some prices and adding best offer just to test it out again.
I think that is generally the best thing to do, especially if one has a lot of listings and multiple people like that. I only have a handful of items listed at any time so it doesn’t take too much time to answer these questions. And if even one of them actually makes a purchase, that’s a big deal for me (given the low number of items listed).
I like those kind of stories from the seller point of view. Sometimes the moment isn’t right (not the right people looking at your listing) and sometimes it’s just psychological.
As I mentioned, I don’t have any experience with getting a sale after increasing a price on eBay. But I have a few cases where items weren’t moving on eBay or the forums and I was able to net more for it from a dealer at a show (Central States and ANA).
Interesting thread. Interesting strategies.
I agree that quite a few cases are just people who want to pay less regardless of how fair the price might be. Some might learn from missing out but others are either successful getting their way enough times or just don’t care to learn.
We have quite a few astute people here.
@U1chicago "I have tried to increase the price several times but haven’t had it work yet."
"I think I will try raising some prices and adding best offer just to test it out again."
It has worked one more than 1 occasion for me, that was just 1 example.
If you have an item that is getting lots of views it seems to work.
If you have a unique item that is getting very few views it doesn't work well to raise the price.
I guess I just don't understand why you wouldn't enable "best offer" if you're willing to knock anything off for someone who asks what your best price is.
What I meant by astute in this instance was the buyer saw the coin and sent the message about the price within a couple days. Coin goes unsold for weeks, seller drops the price, and buyer inquires again about a still inflated price.
I just get the feeling this is either a tough sell coin, or priced at the very high end. Shaving 30% off moon money still leaves a lot of moon left. Just the thought of blocking the buyer in this case is absolutely crazy, he doesn’t wanna buy the overpriced coin at that level and clearly nobody else does either. Why prevent the 1 person from potentially making a deal?
Edit the listing to allow offers, message the guy back a link to the auction and tell him to give you a number. Sounds like he may know more of what the actual value of the coin is without even telling you his price.
Harsh
Suppose, just for a moment, that this coin usually sells for $1200 to $1300. Then what's the interpretation?
I initially didn’t want to knock anything off the price. If someone asks or makes an offer by message, I entertain it when there is room and if the person does not set off any red flags. I also think that allowing offers suggests to people that the price is too high (even if it isn’t) and that might prevent a sale at the desired price. Those who are interested at a reasonable amount will often message on their own and those who would often lowball will skip the listing.
Also eBay has a feature that allows a seller to send offers to all the people watching an item, so I utilize that.
It is rare that a person that follows this pattern ever makes an offer. I keep trying but my experience has been they won’t give you any idea of what they are willing to pay (I’ve asked directly in other cases and they just don’t reply back). These type of buyers don’t display any astute qualities; they tend to be the low ballers or tire kickers. Until I experience something else, that opinion will stick.
1,400 to 1,100 is about 21% off and that’s usually about as high of a discount as I think is reasonable (20%-25%). When pricing something more unique that does not have a guide or any exact comps, I tend to leave that much room over cost in order to have some space to come down. And I’d say that’s around the value of this coin. The person asking won’t find the same item for less anywhere else (besides a platform off eBay since the eBay fees would be removed) and if they find something similar, it won’t be less from other sources (unless the buyer gets lucky to find some dealer that doesn’t know what he has).
That means ebay is the wrong platform to sell this coin. Also possible this sector of the coin market is weakening before your eyes, and prices are in somewhat of a free fall state until they stabilize at a new normal (think ~$800).
Really is a dose of reality when you’ve got a coin you think will net you $300 in profit that turns out to be a $300 loss. I’ve had it happen numerous times, and learn new things each time. It’s tough.
The market is really tough right now. Especially for big ticket material like that. Many low ballers / tire kickers out there.
What is the MV if the coin per CF or CPG? Is this a low pop coin?
I would not take less than ten pct over cost on the bourse at a show. eBay I need cost plus about 25pct for it to be a deal considering selling costs. It appears your being harassed by a tire kicker. I would not discount it less than 10 pct of MV.
From a cost plus basis of $1100 I would not take less than $1375 considering selling costs. You could make it BIN / Mo $1550 bin / $1375 offer bottom. Welcome to the world of people who won’t pay the money.
It’s hardly a falling market. I went to bid on other items in this same market segment and didn’t win any in the last few weeks. Some prices have fallen in general but nice eye appealing coins are not readily available for a discount at this point.
The value of the coin isn’t based on just the guide here but on the eye appeal (plus the holder and sticker combo). Plenty of people don’t care about that and this coin isn’t marketed to them. It is geared towards the group (of which I’m a part of) that pays a premium for eye appeal.
Pretty much all my listings have the best offer feature. You’d actually be surprised how many people just hit buy it now when the price is fair. And it allows people who feel the price is close and easy way to offer. Lots of people won’t waste the time messaging a seller with no BO option.
And in my experience people who then message me for my best price are usually low ballers or tire kickers that rarely end in a sale.
I haven’t had much luck with send offer to watchers feature but have sold a couple coins that way. Once I send the offer I set it to send offer to all new watchers. That has never made a sale.
I sometimes use the promoted listings feature on items that have a low percentage to promote. But the problem is that you never know if the item sold because of promotion, or if that buyer was looking for your item anyway. The extra fee gets charged regardless. Recently had to pay an extra $75 in fees on top of regular fees because of the promoted listing. That one hurt a bit.
My Ebay Store
Well good for you - now go out and pay the sellers retail. Have you ever even setup on the bourse at a show? I like strong retail buyers both at shows and online. As far as PQ / high end material - agree but if they won’t pay the money or can’t afford it - tough sledding.
To the op - if you have it bin / mo you have done basically all u can. Good photos / description helps. If it’s low pop point that out. It’s your call on what take for it.
That’s a good point and I might rethink my initial listing strategy to now have best offer. I used to allow offers but then stopped because I ran into a few people that made offers and then never paid (so I had to wait out the eBay non payer case before reposting). When people make offers by message, I tend to just lower the price to their amount and maintain the immediate payment setting. However, when sending offers from my end, I can end up in the same scenario of people accepting and then not paying.
A lot of the auctions on ebay that I make offers on, before ebay will submit the offer, I have to confirm my payment method and if the seller accepts the offer, ebay pays immediately through my selected payment method. i make an offer and either get "declined" or "no response" or I got the 'you won and paid" message. Works for me.
If it is something I really want and has a BIN or MO rather than make an offer I just hit the BIN. I figure if I want it and the price is reasonable someone else is going to want it and snatch it up before the seller can respond to my offer.
YMMV
Take a look at what other eBay sellers (your competition) have that item for. How does theirs match up vs yours?
If bidding in auc like GC may make note of that….
On my low pop material I take a look see what they have theirs for…if they even have it. Sometimes I may drop my price (if above theirs) or perhaps raise it (like if they don’t even have one). Like a QB read of the defense….
If they make offers by message that work one may just lower price to that offer / message them. I am out to move it not have a museum.
You’re telling me this coin potentially has a price guide value of $75, but the “eye appeal” makes this coin worth something like 20x (~$1500) that number. And for certain you know exactly where to price coins like this, with no supporting evidence in any value guide? Markets like these are the ones that will cause you to go broke, and you won’t even see it coming. Toning isn’t a market, it’s a tax.
There’s a few areas of the entire coin market that have weakened this year, everyone please add toners to that list. Did everyone see the overwhelming volume of them at the ANA a couple weeks ago? I saw 1 guy try to buy 1 coin over the course of 2 days, and the seller refused to budge on a wildly inflated price, and the sale didn’t happen.
You really need to study the toner market before throwing out unsupported opinions. The shows have had a growing number of toners over the last 5-10 years because more people are interested in them. The increased demand makes it more beneficial for dealers to at least have a few in stock to get people to look at their tables. And there have always been dealers that don’t budge from their price, regardless if the coin is a toner or a generic coin that can be found elsewhere. Some run museums and are content doing so.
And yes I have a solid idea of pricing since I buy and sell toners. I’ve followed them closely for close to a decade now (not as long as some of the big players but longer than many, including some of the “astute” people that like to throw out their thoughts with little to no basis).
If you know the market so well, why didn’t you easily sell the coin at a $300 profit? Why didn’t the coin sell at $1100 and breakeven? Why are you in line to take a loss now?
Think about what you’re overwhelmingly seeing at the shows: foreign and toners. This is stuff that has the potential for big margins if you can find the right buyer. Dealers can buy it cheap and shoot for the moon. Some error coins also come to mind. Doesn’t mean there will continue to have buyers in these areas, and hopefully people who bought right can cut loose and move on to the next market fad.
Didn’t Simpson dump stupid money into the toner market and completely skew values, and at least some of his coins have sold at major losses? I don’t follow his transactions very close, but he gave legs to a thin market that got overblown.
Items don’t sell quick most of the time. Toners require the right person to see the coin and have the money to spend on it. This is different from bullion or greysheet coins that have people who will always buy at some quoted number. And I’m not in line to take any loss. It’s been around a month. Most times someone buys the coin eventually. I can wait as there aren’t better places to spend the money (other coins are being offered for more or bid up higher).
Most dealers can’t buy toners cheap unless they find estates, run into some person walking into the shop that needs quick money, or find someone that doesn’t know the market. At the big shows, dealers have strong premiums on this material (most are well above what I sell at). Some will also pay up for the coins as I have sold to them at shows for my ask. The shows are only once or twice per year though and it’s not worth flying out of state to try to sell. So eBay and the forums are the other option to sell before the next show comes around.
As far as the Simpson-Sunnywood set, that is reaching back to 2014 (when Legend sold those coins). People criticized him for spending a lot on toners only to watch most sell for strong premiums. Since that point the toner market has only gained traction. Prices in 2015 were a fraction of what is seen today. And it’s not just inflation. $300 toners from that era are now bringing $1k or more. The demand continues to grow and major auction house see strong results. There are examples that sell for less when they go back to auction in a quick timeframe but the general pattern is growing prices. Toning is no fad; it’s an established segment of the coin market with 20+ years of strong history.
I've been selling or trading coins since 1962. Ykes!
I've learned a couple of things along the way.
1. If I state a price then I work off that. I do not reset the price when someone asks me to. I ask them to submit an offer. Most don't. That's good because it just defined them as a tire kicker. And that's OK because it allows you to be able to not spend any more of your time with them. Remember, time is the only commodity you can't get back. The clock is ticking. Identify the time wasters and set them free on their journey.