A good night at Legend for toners - I got blown out!
U1chicago
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It appears I wasn't the only one who had marked this coin as something special! Based on a low Legend estimate (450-550), a fairly low toning ranking (8+), no CAC sticker (it used to have one but is missing now and the cert does not show it as having one any longer), and having seen a video of this coin a few years back on Instagram, I thought I might have a chance. This 1904-O end roll toner remained fairly low for most of the time and I was in the lead for a while. In the end, I upped my max to 1,200 and called it a day. I was outbid, the clock reset (as it does in these Sunday Legend auctions), and people just kept on bidding until it hit 2,400 (2,820 with the fee)!
Anyone win this one or chase it along with me?
https://legendauctions.hibid.com/lot/165720078/-1-1904-o-pcgs-ms64
Comments
I got one, but not this one. I looks great, but I could not get over the fingerprint on the obverse. It doesn't really show in the trueview, but it did in the slab shot. I was surprised that it went for that much.
It certainly is an MS64 Morgan that sold for 20x its PCGS price guide value.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Very nice coin.
It wasn't me. I've seen coins I really wanted, put in a bid feeling it was borderline ridiculous and no one is going to go higher. Wrong. Then times I've put in a max bid I thought was pretty high a win the coin at a much lower price. Timing. Hard to predict who's looking and when.
I continue to be amazed at the premiums super toned Morgans receive. Obviously, there is a sustained demand for these coins. I recognize that I'm a bit hypocritical in that I've valued attractively toned coins in other series, so perhaps I shouldn't be so surprised.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
That one went for a good price but many other results were pretty soft. Several of those coins sold for 40% discounts compared to Regency 57. End roll toning seems to be in very strong demand. This 1887 went for crazy money IMO.
https://legendauctions.hibid.com/lot/165720064/-1-1887-pcgs-ms66--cac?ref=catalog
I was at a local show yesterday and saw a beautiful 80-S in PCGS 64. Really gorgeous and fantastic toning (similar to the above except in hand it looked like the true view) but I thought the $2500 tag was a bit spendy for an ultra common date coin...guess I was wrong!
I was surprised what the moderns sold for
This is the second recent story I've read of a highly toned coin that had its CAC status removed.
The first story was over on Instagram. A collector / dealer had sent in several coins to CACG and one of those coins, a highly toned example, was returned with a note to call JA. The collector / dealer did just that. They conveyed the essence of that conversation which basically went that, over time, the graders thoughts and opinions have changed / recalibrated to the point where coins that previously were accepted as original toning were now raising a bit of a question as to the actual originality of that toning. In the case on IG, JA offered to make the collector / dealer whole on the coin and the individual accepted that offer.
If this should continue to occur and become a more common occurrence, what effect might that have for the market on coins like this? In this case above, the answer is seemingly little effect. Looked at the other way around, what effect, if any, will there be on those highly toned coins that do pass into CACG holders. Do they become even more sought out?
Certainly two coins is not news or a trend, it's just something that came into my mind given that I read these two stories within a fairly short time of each other and those thoughts sort of resonated in my mind.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
There were some softer results but nothing that seemed like a deal to me. I might do another thread comparing results. There were two reverse toners that I liked that came in slightly under GC results but I had thought those GC results were optimistic. So maybe this was closer to a real price. I think there was also an 1896 that might have been the one that had the 40% discount compared to its prior legend appearance. To me it still seemed like a high price as the photo appears nicer than the coin (as far as I can tell).
I saw that post on IG. The Morgan from IG was a more unusual bluish color that is somewhat suspect. This 1904 looks like standard end roll toning with nothing questionable about it. The coin used to reside in a small white Anacs slab (MS 65). So it’s been around for a while (one can’t say it was a recent creation from a coin doctor). It seems more like a database error or something that went wrong at CAC as opposed to JA changing his mind but of course he could have (I’m just not sure why he would in this case).
In regards to what could happen in the market if CACG is more strict with toned Morgans, I think several options are possible:
1) People adopt the same mindset. So CACG toners increase in premium (based on low supply to meet toner demand). Meanwhile PCGS and NGC toners stagnate or even decrease as people start questioning those coins.
2) Toner collectors mainly ignore what is happening and continue to pay up for bright, vivid color regardless of TPG holder.
That’s actually my old coin. It was originally housed in a MS65 small ANACS. I sold it on Instagram a few years back for $2500.
Originally it came from Mike DeFalco.
Oh ya, used to be CAC’d too.
I should have videos of it on my YouTube, but I’ll have to check.
Old video of the 04-O
https://youtube.com/shorts/Iz0RJ_EQQJA?feature=share
So any thoughts as to why it dropped one point and lost the stick as well.
I mean if you were sending in for reconsideration, wouldn’t you state the minimum grade to be 65?
It lost the sticker after Alanski sold it. As far as I can tell, someone sent it in to be reholdered with a TrueView (didn’t have one when there was a sticker). Normally the sticker gets reapplied but something must have happened (either an error in the system or JA changed his mind on it deserving a sticker).
As far as the down grade from an Anacs 65 to a PCGS 64, most toner collectors would pay more for it in the PCGS holder even with the one point down grade.
Not a big fan of that 04-O … just a tad dark, and the print…. even 1200 would be too high for me … but I’m not surprised it doubled that number, either, given the market
Seeing the video and the pattern, I was a fan. I actually stretched at 1.2k from my usual budget (I like to stay under $1k). Fortunately I didn’t have to worry about that budget in the end.