Why was I told this was not genuine on this forum?
collectormel7
Posts: 110 ✭✭
No help
What garlic is to salad, insanity is to art. (Augustus Saint-Gaudens)
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No help
Only the person who responded could tell you why they feel it is fake. I have no knowledge about this type of coin, but I would be shocked if this one is genuine. Just look at the differences in the details of yours and the link you posted. Yours has none of the crisp elaborate details of the other. There is no way yours was struck from the same dies. All coins struck from the same dies would have the same positioning of the letters, devices and ornamentation, but these two have a lot of differences.
How do you know it is real?
I would be very reluctant in saying it is genuine. Just compare the details of the face in yours
with the genuine photo from Stack- Bowes.
If you want to know for sure, send it of to be certified as genuine.
How many of these have you personally seen/handled?
No help
Good luck with your submission, let us know how it comes out!
Genuine examples? Probably half a dozen.
No help.
Better images are not going to alter the fact that the details in the face are different. It might enhance them though.
As stated previously, if you believe it is genuine, then submit it for verification. If you were going to sell it, it should be verified anyways.
But about 50 I can count of my head that has been holdered and in auction throughout the course of what I seen beyound stacks!! Many holdered seen at Stacks, Champion macau, Ha.com, ebay and also other sites online. Did not consider privatley held and places in hong kong . Way more that 6 coins. ( half dozen).. Scarce, but not the few your mentioned here. So I will be back. But here is a real fake one for your eyes, this is the poor quality you see in fake reproductions. My coin is genuine. I have not gotten much help for the inital question of the adhesive and the cost to have it conserved, but ......
The strike was not able to be picked up on my cheap camera, but I will submit. I been a coin seller and collector for about 10 years. I just want to find out the cost to have the adhesive removed. Not authenticity. Below is a modern replica "silver" coin.
Stike is not the same or dies are not as mine. I will sub.
HERE IS A SILVER REPLICA AND MY COIN IS NOT LIKE THIS.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/195887477826?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr=1&amdata=enc:1EFhgJbaYTneicBCrF0S5UA63&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-167022-171738-6&mkcid=2&itemid=195887477826&targetid=293946777986&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9025256&poi=9165749&campaignid=19936488699&mkgroupid=149470745402&rlsatarget=pla-293946777986&abcId=&merchantid=6296724&gclid=Cj0KCQjw84anBhCtARIsAISI-xcyq2ioBuy1CRM0sBee8GLl04S8bC1nEIdfm89nb21BFOTebg2zp1AaAltUEALw_wcB
To answer your initial question, soak it in acetone for 24 hours, this will remove the adhesive and not harm your coin. The only cost will be for a pint of acetone.
Your coin being silver and correct dimensions doesn’t mean it has to be genuine. A counterfeiter is able to create a fake with correct dimensions and composition. It’s a six figure + coin, they’re willing to spend the $20 in silver to create a fake. But just submit it already. I have no dog in this fight. Was just trying to save you a few hundred dollars in submission fees.
Anyone want to bet if the OP will come back and post their submission results when it comes back fake?
@ifthevamzarockin Why did you do that? Totally uncalled for. This is what i mean , if it is, so what. What a childish thing to do. But what i will tell you is this. All I can do is sub. And i will. No matter what it is. i still want to know before selling to an unsuspectiing person. I hate fraud. (AND IT IS UNLAWFUL) So I must be a legit seller. My reputation is on the line. I prode myself of offering the finest and best. So I source the experts and they opions are very important to me. I love that you are so passionate about collecting. So am I . I love coins. And the premuims they could bring when they are genuine adds to the fun of collecting.
@collectormel7 "What a childish thing to do."
And it's not childish to edit all your comments to "No Help" when you don't get answers you like?
@Top50SetBuilder That is also correct. I have collected for 10 years or more. Had my share of fakes. It is a lost to the customer, not me. I need to know and investing in a good grading company is my direction. I need to always know the truth before assuming to have facts. I recently sold a genuine beautiful stamp and was defrauded. Was sent a fake on in it's place. I really hate fake Things. I will do the accetone thing. But trust me it will be sent in to a grading comany. I still feel good about it. i was told the amount it would cost. But at PCGS it would be a huge $300+ 1% GP even if it is fake. So Yea, very serious stuff. But I found a company with a lower cost charged. It would be better just to find out. The amount with PCGS would be about $3,000 or more even if it is fake. So, yes this is vital to me as much as offering it to a customer. Who will spend allthat money on a dang fake coin. That hurts all of us. Myself, I just need to know. For my own sanity. So I will go for the more reasonible priced service and hope for the best. Can not afford $3000 to be waisted as opposed to cost of submission ect...
@collectormel7 "Myself, I just need to know. For my own sanity."
Post your coin on the main coin forum for responses, and when those responses don't line up with your wishes or desires be man enough to not edit every post to 'No Help."
There are enough experts here to let you know and save your sanity.
Agree.
It's immature, ungrateful, and just plain bad form to delete posts like that. This thread is now worthless as an educational tool and a waste of forum space.
I can't know for sure because you edited out everything from this post but I would guess this is the coin in question.
It looks like a counterfeit to me.
@collectormel7 From one of your other threads, "Thank you all for your feedback. This is the reason I ask questions like this because I need the insight of the wise and knowledgeable."
I guess we are not as wise and knowledgeable as we once were.
Instead of helpin me you offend. This is why I removed it. But all is well. I will ask the grade companies. They will let me know for certain. You all are rude and very disrepectful. @ ifthevamzarockin your reply in quotes from my previous post.. (I need the insight of the wise and knowledgeable.") Knowledge has puffed you up!! You know to much to be cordual and kind. But it is alright sir My
"eyes" are opened enought to know that people with kindness show it no matter how wrong another might seem to be. You could have been kind. You are just mean. And all that information you have you lack love. I just ask a question and was pounded to death almost. And I did not ask about the coins authenticity, just adhesive cost to remove and where to send it. And remove the images and said no help becaus eI was insulted instead of being helped. My camera really do not take good quality images. But I will sub. I need to find out the truth. Here it willbe only insults. 
Really just the acetone was good enough. I did not ask if it was genuine. I ask why I was told by Top50SetBuilder it was not. I intially wanted to remove the adhesive. THat's all. You are cruel and very angry men. You can learn alot from love and beauty. Have joy and let it show in your replies. Please just be kind. I am and will not let a little knowledge change that.
OR not knowing at all to change me. Please be gentle. A soft answer turns away wrath, but grevious words stirs up anger. Just looking for some help. Not a bashing.
I was never rude or offensive. Only tried to save you time and money. Look at the lumps in the field above the L of L GIORGI. Those are not supposed to be there. The luster on the reverse is very wrong. But what do I know, I’ve only seen a half a dozen or so of these, which is apparently nothing to you. You called me “some random person”. Everyone on an Internet forum is some random person. But you’re the only one rude enough to address someone in that manner. You don’t want to listen, despite never handling a confirmed genuine example of an L Giorgi Yuan Shi Kai Dollar.
And by the way I am not just getting this done for me. But for my customer safety.
And please read this!!! Many dealers are behind bars for selling fakes. If it is fake a grading company will let me know. I will spend the money to know for certain.
It not completly worthless if it is not a period peice. Atleast worth the silver content. I have a positive attitute about collecting. It is fun and you meet really good people along the way. Not just money. I just want to be right have the right attitue and do the right thing. This is my hobby and I am learning everyday. I get it wrong sometimes but atleast I am intelligent enough to get a the experts in on it. Not just "konw it all and just be greedy! I alway do my research. My intentionas are very good but sometimes things are just not real. It is apart of collecting. Some of your finest auction houses have been taken advantage of by this influx of fakes flooding the market. I will not be a victim. I invest low some of the images do not serve your item.
I KNOW WHAT FRAUD AND FAKES STUFF CAN DO A BUSINESS. I SEEN WHAT HAPPENED TO BLUE MOOON COINS A FEW YEARS BACK. I SEE PEOPLE HAVE THE BEST INTENTIONS AND IT STILL IS NOT THE BEST INVESTMENT. I HATE FAKE THINGS. AND WILL NOT SELL ANYTHING FAKE. I ASK THE BEST!!! INVEST IN THE BEST KNOWLEDGE. I GO TO THE EXPERTS. THIS IS WHY I CAME HERE. DID NOT EXPECT TO BE BEAT TO DEATH.
Counterfeit
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A counterfeit is the fraudulent copy of money, documents, designer pieces, or other valuable items. The counterfeiter often provides these goods to others with an intent to defraud. If a person pays for goods or services with counterfeit money, they could be charged through federal and state laws.
18 U.S. Code § 471 is a federal statute that states that a person can be fined and/or imprisoned for up to 20 years if they counterfeit a security of the United States with intent to defraud. States have their own laws for possession of counterfeit items. For example, California’s Penal Code 475 PC makes possession of a counterfeit item a misdemeanor or felony with a possibility of up to 3 years of jail time. But like 18 U.S. Code § 471, the government has to prove the person had intent to defraud another person. The defendant is able to put on a defense that they did not have knowledge the counterfeit item was a counterfeit and therefore, didn’t intend to defraud.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/counterfeit#:~:text=If a person pays for,States with intent to defraud.
BEEN AROUND THE COIN SHOPS AND AUCTION HOUSES FOR YEARS.
https://www.columbian.com/news/2018/oct/03/owner-of-vancouver-coin-shop-faces-federal-charges/
Owner of closed Vancouver coin shop faces federal charges
Indictment alleges Blue Moon Coins owner defrauded customers out of $1.3 million
(ALL CAPS BUT NOT YELLING) ABLE TO TYPE FASTER) SORRY...
COIN FRAUD AND COUNTERFIETS ARE SERIOUS THIS IS REAL TO ME AS IT IS TO ANY OF YOU. I AM A SERIOUS COLLECTOR.
I AM NOT GOING BACKWARDS AND GOING TO JAIL. I JUST ASK ABOUT THE ADHESIVE. THANKS AGAIN GUYS.
@collectormel7 "Instead of helpin me you offend. This is why I removed it."
Don't blame me you had already removed it before I came along.
This is part of the problem with society today, too many people are offended too easily.
I was not offened. At all. You mistook me I guess. But Thank you. It was still very fun and interesting. I learn something about my coin. When I look under my loupe it looks diffrent from the images I posted. Sharp details and This link helped also.
I have very low pixels on my camera and the image looks nothing like the coin in person. In hand it is strong stike and dies are like the original. Just bad angles and images bad lighting. I also see that some of these coins was struck for collectors at a latter date (1918)
Askthe right questions and you will find the correct answer everytime.
Counterfeit Detection link:
https://www.ngccoin.com/resources/counterfeit-detection/top/chinese/10/
The anatomy of a coin: I though only applied to USA minted coins. World coins are bit tough for me.
https://uscoinsandjewelry.com/blog-article/ANATOMY-OF-A-COIN
All catalogs are over priced or hard to find. Wiped off the internet (seems) HArd to find good coin
references for Chinese Empier and Republic coins.
All suggestions are much welcomed.
Another restrike I found looks like the reverse of my coin. Not sure if it is found on the one with the L. Giorgi signature
https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/5910374-001/64/
And again thank you all. I had to scrape the web to get it but I found some good stuff. i only hope to find some good books for these old coins. The big red book is the best source for the US Minted coins. But can not find any good ones for old chinese. Only the mods.
Helped me a great bit. I only use 25x wide angle pixpro az252 very low pixels. No good for imaging. coins.
My coins come out looking prooflike casted and in hand struck from mint. Sharp no issues with dies.
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=415070
@hfjacinto on the forum.
" The shots are done with a macro lens and dslr and fancy lighting."
Best I could do without a better camera.
This is lacking the detail of the coin stiking and die. It is th best I can do My coin doe not look like this image if you held it in your hand. don't fuss!!
Best I could do without a better camera.
This thread seems like insider trading. With out a pictureor an explanation, who can answer your lack of detail question. Just do what others have done, take it to a local coin shop and have them look at in hand and you can get all your questions answered to you satisfaction.
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