Got to love it when other auction bidders computer freezes up as the auction ends!
Herb_T
Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
Recently I had won an auction online for a coin I needed for my registry set. Nice coin with a CAC and an attribute on the label. Book on the coin was $3,000. All in I was at $3120. A few minutes after the coin was mine I got a phone call from the auction house. The other bidders computer froze up as the auction ended and he couldn’t get his bid in. The coin was mine.
The auction house explained the other bidder’s dilemma and they offered $4,000 to buy it from me. I’ve said no, but would take $2,000 net to me. Auction house called me back in less than a minute and the other party was taking their check right away to the auction house. Never had that before. Don’t feel one bit guilty as I would have kept it and put it in my registry set.
Sometimes you just get lucky!
Comments
Interesting. The other bidder gambled the tried to snipe, but technology got in his way. Oh well. At least you gave him an option, and he took it. Win-Win in my book.
Dave
I’d love it if auction houses called me to basically pay me for my winning bids.
Sweet
I like this story. I’ll try that next time when I don’t win a coin.
The moral of the story?
Technology is not your best friend.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Good for you
Successful transactions with: Lakesammman, jimineez1, Flackthat, PerryHall, bidask, bccox, TwistedArrow1962, free_spirit, alexerca, scooter25, FHC, tnspro, mcarney1173, moursund, and SurfinxHI (6 times)
Every now and then you get really lucky. I need about another 200 of these deals to break even on my coins!
I wonder if it was the auction house's computer that froze up, not the bidder's computer.
Recently I had two different auction house's computers freeze up on me. Neither responded to my e-mail afterwards. One was early in the evening and the other near the final bell. In the case of the later, the coin sold way under the market.
Cool story!
Funny, I would have wanted it even more knowing that it was rarer or in more demand than I thought at this moment in time but that's the collector side in me, I am no where near dealeresque category.
This kind of happened to me before. I was bidding on a item at ha. I was outbid then I decided to bid live instead of increase the bid online. I was at a business lunch when I watched the live bidding on my phone. When my item was coming I was talking to other peoples and I missed the bid by a minute. So I immediately made an offer after the auction ended. I got the item.
Awesome
Maybe i was hallucinating but one time i was listening/watching a live auction and the item was a couple bid increments below my max. I then hear “there’s a bid for xxxx”, which was my max and then suddenly it jumped to my max bid and i won. I’ve always hoped i heard it wrong but don’t think so. It was a big auction house too.
At least twice, I have been contacted by auction houses when I was underbidder and asked whether I wanted to buy the coin at my bid because the winning bidder “ made a mistake.”
Auction houses must have a lot of good stories of the excuses people come up with for trying to back out of a winning bid or for why their winning bid was not processed.
Frozen computers and butterfingers and bad eyesight - the list is probably a long one.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Can we see a picture or link to the coin?
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7
Tough break for the consignor.
Sounds like the "potted plant at the back of the room" (aka shill) ran up your bid and when they won it, they offered it to you as the underbidder. Auction consignors aren't above playing games to maximize their profit.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
In the case of legitimate auction houses, it has nothing to do with shill bidding. Unfortunately, from time to time, we’re contacted by winning bidders who, for one reason or another, back out of honoring their bids. When that occurs, we typically contact the underbidder to see if they’re interested in the lot.
Keep in mind that these days, many auctions aren’t even conducted in rooms with live bidders, much less, (potted) plants.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I've had problems bidding at Stacks in the past during live bidding. The bid button disappeared on 2 or 3 occasions, making it impossible to increase my bid.
Probably saved me from myself!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Thank God. Those potted plants were wreaking havoc.
I wasn't implying that Heritage practiced shill bidding but it does happen and sometimes it's the owner of a coin that does the shill bidding. What kind of excuses does the winner of a coin use to back out of honoring their bid that Heritage finds acceptable?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
One common problem is delayed transmission of an electronic bid. I've had it happen to me where I bid but I end up in the next highest increment because someone's bid got in before mine got submitted. I just live with it, but I'm sure some people complain.
The excuse that was passed onto me in one instance was that the winning bidder bid on the wrong coin. I simply had to decide whether I was willing to buy the coin for my highest bid, which was the underbid.
I don’t believe either time was Heritage.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Right. But, honestly, what "legitimate" reason is there for not honoring a bid, other than running up the price on others, either as a shill for the consigner or to just inflate values, possibly to inflate the value of coins the bidder already owns?
It sucks to be the auction house or consigner is such a circumstance, but I'd never be comfortable as the underbidder going forward with a transaction after being forced to show my hand, with no consequence to whoever ran up the bidding. There is no telling how much lower the winning bid would have been without the participation of the buyer's remorse bidder, so I'd insist on another shot, at another auction, without the participation of the offending party, rather than just bailing everyone out at one increment less than the bid not being honored.
I'd also hope the house would permanently ban the person from future auctions, realizing that might not be in the interest of a business that wants to see a lot of bidding. What does Heritage do with such bidders?
I thought about it and would have kept it if I was only going to net about $800. but when it went for net $2,000 to me I decided I could use that money to find and buy another.
It had the designation FS-301 on it which if i read google correctly meant it was rare. I looked on the PCGS guide and they showed only one MS64 FS-301. None higher, so perhaps that was the story.
Anyone know how a coin gets FS-301 designation? Seems that there are several out there, not this year or type, but others that have that designation. Anyone?
That recently happened to my wife with HA. She lost out on a Morgan and moved on and found another someplace else. The auction house contacted her and told her that the winning bidder backed out and she could buy it for her bid. She told them too late, she had found one and was moving on. Stuff happens!
NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 817 ✭✭✭✭ August 19, 2023 11:25AM
@MFeld said:
» show previous quotes
In the case of legitimate auction houses, it has nothing to do with shill bidding. Unfortunately, from time to time, we’re contacted by winning bidders who, for one reason or another, back out of honoring their bids. When that occurs, we typically contact the underbidder to see if they’re interested in the lot.
Keep in mind that these days, many auctions aren’t even conducted in rooms with live bidders, much less, (potted) plants.😉
Right. But, honestly, what "legitimate" reason is there for not honoring a bid, other than running up the price on others, either as a shill for the consigner or to just inflate values, possibly to inflate the value of coins the bidder already owns?
It sucks to be the auction house or consigner is such a circumstance, but I'd never be comfortable as the underbidder going forward with a transaction after being forced to show my hand, with no consequence to whoever ran up the bidding. There is no telling how much lower the winning bid would have been without the participation of the buyer's remorse bidder, so I'd insist on another shot, at another auction, without the participation of the offending party, rather than just bailing everyone out at one increment less than the bid not being honored.
I'd also hope the house would permanently ban the person from future auctions, realizing that might not be in the interest of a business that wants to see a lot of bidding. What does Heritage do with such bidders?>>
Many people wouldn’t necessarily consider these legitimate reasons, but as examples, a bidder might bid on the wrong lot, bid a different amount then intended or have a medical/financial emergency. There are also occasions where bidders simply decide not to pay their bills or respond in any way. Each situation is addressed on an individual basis.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
NJCoin said
Many people wouldn’t necessarily consider these legitimate reasons, but as examples, a bidder might bid on the wrong lot, bid a different amount then intended or have a medical/financial emergency. There are also occasions where bidders simply decide not to pay their bills or respond in any way. Each situation is addressed on an individual basis.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That's quite a story; that other bidder really wanted that coin!
I would love if an auction house contacted me to buy a coin a bid on and lost. Most of the time, I'm left feeling like I should've stretched a bit more.
There was a time I actually bid on the wrong lot and I put in a very strong bid. Tried to call the auction house and email a bid retraction without a response. Fortunately, some other nutjob bid even higher and is now buried in my mistake.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I did that once. I just bought the coin anyway.
You could misenter the bid. You could enter the bid late and end up at the next increment. Whether you consider such things "legitimate" depends.
I've even had a live bid taken because I didn't drop my card fast enough when they took another bid first.
I've twice had an auction house contact me to determine if I wanted to sell a coin I had just won. Once was with one of Bower's companies--I forget which. A relatively prominent dealer had missed a lot he was to bid on for a client and was trying to buy it from me. It's an uncommon, albeit not terribly expensive pattern. I declined to sell as I wanted the coin and did not need the money. That was that for this non-transaction. The second was with Heritage for an Isabella quarter. After I declined to sell, the Heritage representative (not MFeld) told me that if it were his coin, he also wouldn't sell at the price I was offered. To this day, though I have some sympathy for the other collectors, I am glad I kept both coins.
nice deal
He meant that he was paid $2000 to abandon the coin without buying it and walk away.
My Carson City Morgan Registry Set
I netted $2,000 to the good after the smoke cleared.
A couple of years ago, I was looking for an 1895-O Morgan dollar, in AU50 or AU53 condition (and looking problem free, of course). Two were coming up just moments apart (a 50 and a 53); I put in a fairly low bid on the 50 a minute before the end, then went to the other to snipe. Turns out I got both.
Darn.
But, it's my problem, not the auction house's problem. So I call the next morning to pay. I tell the woman I was paying for two coins, and I wanted them to keep one to sell for me.
She didn't bat an eye. I kept the 53, and the 50 sold for enough that I was out about $3, net. Cheap tuition!
You're right about the flexible definition of "legitimate," and Heritage's bending over backwards to accommodate customers is one reason I love dealing with them as a bidder.
That said, auctions are a big boy game, and, if it was my house, even though it would cost me money, I'd permanently ban anyone not honoring their bid, regardless of the reason why. Anything less really does undermine the integrity of the auction, and going to an underbidder for a bailout is weak.
Maybe, if Heritage really wants to be all things to both consigners and bidders, if it does not want to stick bidders with their bids, it should step in the shoes of the buyer's remorse bidder and buy the coin itself at the bid price, and then sell it itself in a future auction, rather than allowing people to make "mistakes" that potentially cost underbidders money, without consequence, while making consigners and the auction house whole through an underbidder.
Honestly, the only fair thing to do with a buyer's remorse bidder is to relist the coin for them, giving them whatever advance the lot warrants if they need immediate cash, and let them make or lose whatever the market decides at a subsequent auction, including listing fees, buyer's fees, etc. And, if they are unwilling to pay for their "mistake," they should be blackballed. Again, anything less is undoubtedly appreciated by the offending parties, but at the expense of the integrity of the auction.
Understood. Lots of things can happen, "legitimate" and otherwise. You acted with integrity when you honored your mistaken bid, and that's what all bidders should be forced to do. Life is not without risks, nor is participating in auctions.
After all, an auction has multiple parties, not just a buyer and a seller. And, the issue with retracted bids after the auction closes is that there is no way to know what the hammer would have been had the buyer's remorse bidder not participated, unless the only bid they entered was the last one, which is highly unlikely. As a result, the right or fair outcome is probably not to have the underbidder take the lot at the underbid, even if the underbidder is willing to comply, because the result is indistinguishable from what happens when shill bids are allowed.
This is the real story here: this consignor had the dream scenario of multiple highly motivated bidders, and then fate intervened such that one of the bidders basically made a profit on the consignor's coin. Not saying that's right or wrong - but to me, it's the essence of this particular human drama. :-)
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
.> @M4Madness said:
There are occasions in which Heritage does buy the coin or reauctions it for the winning bidder.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was the underbidder last night in an auction. I wish the winners computer had frozen.
Should have bid more….
But my wife just jumped for joy.
I returned a lot once because a numismatist at GC didn’t tell me about a big flaw in a coin that I asked him to describe in hand, and even an amateur could have spotted. So I got bad information. Was I wrong to back out? I used my once a month allowed return
.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Duplicate post deleted
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Duplicate post deleted
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Duplicate post deleted
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.