Is this mercury dime an upgrade crossover candidate?
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This is one of the prettiest coins I own. I love blast white.
I am wondering if my 1941 pf67+ cac mercury dime could possibly cross that magic plane and be graded a pf68 from PCGS?
I ask because I prefer PCGS holders for the coins I want to keep, and in this case the value goes up maybe 7x. The cac sticker doesn’t mean much to me accept from a market standpoint it confirms the high end of the Ngc grade.
I apologize for the pictures but I included the ones from Ngc too (without cac sticker).
My gut says go for it because the potential reward for the amount of money to cross is small however whenever I see a coin with a hockey stick in valuation I find it is almost impossible to get the higher grade. Could this be an exception?
Thank you in advance for your comments.
With cac sticker
From Ngc
Comments
Anybody who can tell from those pictures should work for NASA as a telescope
Looks lustrous, but your pictures aren’t good enough for me to opine about a half a point upgrade.
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Even fantastic pictures wouldn't suffice for making such a grade determination.
Edited to add: You said that you prefer PCGS holders for coins you wish to keep. But asking about trying for a higher grade is a different subject. What would be wrong with crossing the coin to a PCGS holder at the current grade if you could?
By the way, while the potential financial reward for an upgrade is very large compared to the cost of trying, you should also consider the odds of success. Based on the way PCGS and NGC tend to grade, I believe that your odds are extremely low.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Granted there are many people on this forum better than me in grading. I cannot tell the difference between a 67+ and a 68 graded coin from pictures or in hand.
I think in this situation the pictures are less relevant than the the fact Ngc graded a blast white coin pf67+ and cac agreed. Under this scenario what are the odds of it crossing over one little bump higher to a 68.
Regardless, you are right I should have included better pictures. I tried to but there are some shadows and glare.
CAC agreed it’s a 67, not necessarily a 67+, since they ignore the plus.
As you alluded to, this is fundamentally a probability exercise, but the only person who has a good enough view of the coin to assess the chances is you.
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It appears to be a very attractive coin in a major brand slab with a very high grade. Just be happy with it as it is. Don't start throwing away money playing the very high risk upgrade game.
You can request a higher grade to cross at on the pcgs form. So you wouldn’t risk losing the current holder or cac sticker if it doesn’t ms68. Taking a $500 coin and turning it into a $4500 coin might be worth it.
Mfield: correct, I do prefer PCGS holders for coins I want to keep and normally same grade for a crossover would be acceptable. if my coin was only a Ngc pf67 then cross at PCGS pf67 would be ok.
I stated several times in previous posts I am not a fan of cac (I know I am in the minority) but I do applaud them for the positioning concept they used at the expense of PCGS and Ngc. Again for me when a coin is graded by PCGS or Ngc the issues then become price and eye appeal, I don’t need a third party (cac).
Since the market has embraced cac the coin is looked at more favorably and that’s my problem and why I bring up would this coin cross to pf68. Correct me if I am wrong, but if I sent my coin in to cross at a minimum same grade it could back from PCGS as a pf67, I could lose the + and the cac sticker and thus from a market perspective a less desirable coin. That’s why I asked the probability of PCGS grading up to pf68.
Pocketchange: yes, cac agreed to pf67 which if I understand means it is a high pf67. Cac doesn’t question if the coin could be graded higher ie: pf68 they just confirm in their opinion the grade stated.
So if this coin was graded pf68 then cac may not have sticker it.
See the post by @1madman above your previous one. Based on the odds, I don't think your coin would upgrade, but his suggestion makes the most sense if you want to try.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Upgrade submitters often have to try several times if their coin is a good candidate.
I’m not sure an NGC PF68 would even cross at the same grade, CAC or not.
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Fundamentally, your thread is simply asking "should you/would you..." regarding this coin as no one would be able to definitively tell you if the coin is a PR67, a PR67+ or a PR68 given these images or nearly any set of static images one could provide.
As for your title, of course the coin is a "candidate" for upgrade and/or crossover, but is it likely? As has been stated, the large value increase for the grade bump means that both PCGS and NGC must be really tight with this grade window. If so, and if the price bump is that great, then your coin might have already made the trip in search of the PCGS PR68 grade multiple times and this happens to be its current data point. I don't know the price differential between these grades for this coin, and I didn't look it up, but I would suggest to send the coin to PCGS multiple times in an effort to secure the desired grade and then, if it fails repeatedly, decide when to cut bait.
Good luck.
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I was curious so I looked up the pop numbers at PCGS and was surprised to see PCGS shows 41 graded at 68 and 6 at 68+. I agree that there is no way to tell from photos if this coin will upgrade, but it is not like you are making a new top pop so, assuming the coin is all there, and you submit at a favorable time, the odds could be decent and worth a one time shot.
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I never understood what is the criteria used to distinguish between MS 67 67+ 68 68+. What are the minute differences between these grades and how do knowledgeable collectors ascertain the minute nuances, if it is not easy even for professional graders too. I would even hazard to guess that if 10 raw coins of such high caliber were re submitted there would be difficulty replicating the original PCGS grades consistently
If you want a 68 in PCGS plastic, sell this coin and use the funds to buy one. May be cheaper than playing the crossover game!
Based on my crossover submission experiences especially NGC CAC plus, there is almost zero chance that will become an MS68 at PCGS. You will probably get a MS67, but even a 67+ is highly unlikely. There is an NGC PF68 at Apmex for $2,500 and I seriously doubt that it would cross to anything but a 67 either, because most all of these in near top pop grades have already been sent in to try to play that game. Good luck and be sure to remember to set your minimum grade.
Also, as you watch your submission you will see it come out of crossover grading into "encapsulation" and you will get a good feeling it will slab. Then it will go into 2 weeks of QA, and you will really feel good. Then you will get the notice your grades are finally ready and reality hits. DNC. Been there and done that.
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If your experiences with crossovers is an automatic downgrade of at least 1 point or so, the problem lies with your grading ability, not the tpg company. You have to get the feel for how pcgs and ngc each grade that series of coins, and buy & cross accordingly. I not only cross, but upgrade ngc coins into pcgs plastic all the time. It’s not that difficult.