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the gambling exploits of Phil Mickelson

galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,054 ✭✭✭✭✭

Phil is the biggest action guy i've ever heard of. $1 billion wagered in the past 3 decades. if you're unaware of the story below, i'll give you the abridged version before you start reading: years ago he befriended a guy named Billy Walters, one of the most successful sports bettors of all time. together they entered into a partnership and gambled insane sums of money for the next handful of years. fast forward to 2017 when Walters was found guilty of insider trading and went to the joint for half a decade. Phil was involved but skirted prison time. now Walters is out and penned a book with a lot of dirt inside. here's a juicy excerpt for your viewing pleasure. when you see the dollar figures and sheer volume involved, try to keep your eyeballs in their sockets.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/billy-walters-book-gambler-phil-mickelson-bets-financial-losses-offshore-betting-accounts

Comments

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,210 ✭✭✭✭✭

    WOW

    That's all I can say, I want to read more

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 7,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:
    WOW

    That's all I can say, I want to read more

    I want to read more too. I'll have to find the ebook online when it gets released.

    I can just imagine what Michael Jordan's career bets wagered total comes out to compared to Mickelson. I wouldn't be suprised at all if it was considerably higher.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,210 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I always knew Jordan and Daley were huge gamblers, I was not aware of Mickelson

  • Alfonz24Alfonz24 Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And Barkley

    #LetsGoSwitzerlandThe Man Who Does Not Read Has No Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read. The biggest obstacle to progress is a habit of “buying what we want and begging for what we need.”You get the Freedom you fight for and get the Oppression you deserve.
  • Alfonz24Alfonz24 Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As long as he was close to break even on betting, I could see $1B over 30 years (with his level of income). As far as I know, he has never filed bankruptcy or had repossession of houses or cars.

    And unless you are a politician, playing the stock markets are rigged.

    #LetsGoSwitzerlandThe Man Who Does Not Read Has No Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read. The biggest obstacle to progress is a habit of “buying what we want and begging for what we need.”You get the Freedom you fight for and get the Oppression you deserve.
  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,054 ✭✭✭✭✭

    check out this anecdote from Tom Candiotti, former major league pitcher

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,054 ✭✭✭✭✭

    by the way if you think Pete Rose gambling on baseball was bad, if Walters's accusation of Mickelson betting on the Ryder Cup is true -- even if he was betting on the USA to win -- that's borderline criminal in the world of golf

    there is going to be some serious blowback

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 7,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Alfonz24 said:
    And Barkley

    I typed out his name too but deleted it. I'm sure he's been paid well over the years but I didn't think he had access to the type of of bank roll that MJ & Phil had.
    That being said I do remember when he bet 500K on the 2001 Pats in the SB lol.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have never understood the draw to gamble. I know that millions of people get great enjoyment from it, but, to me it has never seemed like something that looked fun to me. It always has seemed like a very stressful thing to do. Maybe it is because money has not come easily to me.

    For those who do not have a lot of money, it seems far too risky to lose or to possibly become addicted.

    For those who have LOTS of money, why risk losing much of it for the chance to gain a little more?

    Neither scenario seems like a win to me. but hey, ymmv.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 7,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:
    by the way if you think Pete Rose gambling on baseball was bad, if Walters's accusation of Mickelson betting on the Ryder Cup is true -- even if he was betting on the USA to win -- that's borderline criminal in the world of golf

    there is going to be some serious blowback

    Whose to say that the would have been the first and only time? Also I'm not familiar with gambling and if this was something the IRS may decide to look into but I'm sure Phil wouldn't want them to just show up for an audit one day lol.

  • Alfonz24Alfonz24 Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    I have never understood the draw to gamble. I know that millions of people get great enjoyment from it, but, to me it has never seemed like something that looked fun to me. It always has seemed like a very stressful thing to do. Maybe it is because money has not come easily to me.

    For those who do not have a lot of money, it seems far too risky to lose or to possibly become addicted.

    For those who have LOTS of money, why risk losing much of it for the chance to gain a little more?

    Neither scenario seems like a win to me. but hey, ymmv.

    I think it is mostly the spirit to compete. Thinking you know more than the other guy.

    I tried sports betting at an early age, but bet with my heart and lost most of time. I quit as I valued my money more than the thrill to win a sports. bet. I will still do some small betting on myself on the golf course, cornhole and other games of "skill".

    Was never into poker. Played some craps at casinos, but also lost too many times to get any enjoyment and haven't been back to a casino since the 1990s.

    #LetsGoSwitzerlandThe Man Who Does Not Read Has No Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read. The biggest obstacle to progress is a habit of “buying what we want and begging for what we need.”You get the Freedom you fight for and get the Oppression you deserve.
  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,054 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    I have never understood the draw to gamble. I know that millions of people get great enjoyment from it, but, to me it has never seemed like something that looked fun to me. It always has seemed like a very stressful thing to do. Maybe it is because money has not come easily to me.

    For those who do not have a lot of money, it seems far too risky to lose or to possibly become addicted.

    For those who have LOTS of money, why risk losing much of it for the chance to gain a little more?

    Neither scenario seems like a win to me. but hey, ymmv.

    as someone who dabbles in sports betting, i'm going to answer this as honestly as i can. and the other action guys on here can chime in with their own personal thoughts if they so choose.

    gambling is inherently addictive. period. end of story.

    the only true difference from other vices like cigarettes and drugs is that it's purely financial. the "high" in this case is the potential for quick wealth based on what you think you may know. and that allure can easily overwhelm you. once gambling puts you in a headlock, it's difficult to extricate yourself. look at Mickelson up above in the Candiotti story. he won seven figures on NFL games that day, but couldn't stop himself. instead of partying like a rockstar in Vegas, he ended up at a baccarat table and probably lost almost all of his winnings.........if not all. it's an addiction, straight up.

    for me personally, when i deposit money in my sportsbook account, i tell myself that i'll never see it again. then if i do manage to create some magic, it's a pleasant, unexpected surprise. i also never wager more than i can afford to lose. even though i have felt myself getting sucked into the vortex many times over the course of my gambling life, i do know when to say when. and i think that's crucial.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,210 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Galaxy is spot on, my betting is done with funds that I account for as gone

    The "Stresses" is the "Action"

    It's a combination of Anger, fury, disbelief, shock, happy, exuberance and any other emotion that I might have missed

    Oh and all.those emotions can be throughout a whole game, a single play, inning, drive, quarter or whatever lol

    It's fun as long as you can get over a stinging loss and legitimately not miss the money.

    I'm not joking, you have to gamble responsibly

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,054 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2023 2:04PM

    a little perspective.....

    here's Forbes' top 10 highest-paid athletes for 2023 list

    with the advent of LIV, some of these golfers went from filthy to obscenely rich

    quick, raise your hand if you said that the only North American professional athlete who will make more money than Dustin Johnson and Phil Mickelson this year is LeBron James

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/brettknight/2023/05/02/the-worlds-10-highest-paid-athletes-2023/?sh=5da067a2b156

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 7,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    I have never understood the draw to gamble. I know that millions of people get great enjoyment from it, but, to me it has never seemed like something that looked fun to me. It always has seemed like a very stressful thing to do. Maybe it is because money has not come easily to me.

    For those who do not have a lot of money, it seems far too risky to lose or to possibly become addicted.

    For those who have LOTS of money, why risk losing much of it for the chance to gain a little more?

    Neither scenario seems like a win to me. but hey, ymmv.

    I've worked with plenty of guys over the years that would always justify their losses by saying that they could afford to lose money which was pretty crazy thinking when we were working for the same employer at the time making in the same ballpark in wages lol.

    There was one guy that was always bragging about his scratch ticket winnings yet if you looked on the floorboards in his truck you knew he was spending so much more than he was apparently admitting to himself. This didn't even include stopping in for Keno,the weekly football squares for the Pats games or the guy that came by twice a week dropping off betting slips for the weekend's NFL/NCAA games. Its been years since I've talked with him but I can just imagine what he's like now where you could bet on literally anything with one click on your phone.
    He also collected sports cards too on top of all of that lol. He did have better luck there though when he bought the last pack from a box of 2000 SP Authentic football and pulled a Brady rookie.

    I've never seen the allure of gambling and learned years ago that I'd rather have something to show for my money. Even then at the time when I was spending my money on cards especially when it came to opening packs/boxes,it really was just another form of gambling that rarely paid off.

    I'm honestly not too familiar with the volatility in gains/losses in coin collecting but with sportscards we've seen so many cards shoot up in value or see it drop entirely. (If you haven't seen some of the stuff on the Sports Card Investor and the losses he's taken since Covid hit,its pretty crazy.)

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:

    @craig44 said:
    I have never understood the draw to gamble. I know that millions of people get great enjoyment from it, but, to me it has never seemed like something that looked fun to me. It always has seemed like a very stressful thing to do. Maybe it is because money has not come easily to me.

    For those who do not have a lot of money, it seems far too risky to lose or to possibly become addicted.

    For those who have LOTS of money, why risk losing much of it for the chance to gain a little more?

    Neither scenario seems like a win to me. but hey, ymmv.

    as someone who dabbles in sports betting, i'm going to answer this as honestly as i can. and the other action guys on here can chime in with their own personal thoughts if they so choose.

    gambling is inherently addictive. period. end of story.

    the only true difference from other vices like cigarettes and drugs is that it's purely financial. the "high" in this case is the potential for quick wealth based on what you think you may know. and that allure can easily overwhelm you. once gambling puts you in a headlock, it's difficult to extricate yourself. look at Mickelson up above in the Candiotti story. he won seven figures on NFL games that day, but couldn't stop himself. instead of partying like a rockstar in Vegas, he ended up at a baccarat table and probably lost almost all of his winnings.........if not all. it's an addiction, straight up.

    for me personally, when i deposit money in my sportsbook account, i tell myself that i'll never see it again. then if i do manage to create some magic, it's a pleasant, unexpected surprise. i also never wager more than i can afford to lose. even though i have felt myself getting sucked into the vortex many times over the course of my gambling life, i do know when to say when. and i think that's crucial.

    thank you for your response. It is very interesting, your comment about gambling being inherently addictive. I knew there were problems with addiction, but perhaps I did not realize the extent of it. I guess I am very glad I am not drawn to it.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2023 8:26AM

    Mickelson's gambling exploits have long been legendary, and were known to be atleast in the hundreds of millions.

    I understand about addiction, from my own life and the lives of many I have loved/love. My father was both an alcoholic and a gambling addict. Not a violent man. A loving father. But when you have those types of vices, it hurts your ability to do what's right. I have had addiction problems running through both sides of my family, as have many of you. I have had my own struggles.

    Addiction to gambling runs rampant within the lives of many, but as related to this story we see it often among the highest level of pro athletes. It can be said that perhaps these specific athletes wouldn't be at the level they are if not for that streak being within them. A good example of a guy who couldn't keep up financially is Antoine Walker. Barkley is another example. None of us would be blessed with the gold of his tv persona if not for the fact that after retiring he was forced to work to pay back and to fund his gambling.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:
    Nope, can't do it, I'm too cheap to gamble, I hate spending money on anything, even necessities. You should see my shoes!

    ...
    I remember your broken down bed! 😂

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:

    @doubledragon said:
    Nope, can't do it, I'm too cheap to gamble, I hate spending money on anything, even necessities. You should see my shoes!

    ...
    I remember your broken down bed! 😂

    That's nothing, you should see the cheap turkey I eat on Thanksgiving, my wife hates it, but I save $20!

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2023 11:23AM

    @doubledragon said:

    @thisistheshow said:

    @doubledragon said:
    Nope, can't do it, I'm too cheap to gamble, I hate spending money on anything, even necessities. You should see my shoes!

    ...
    I remember your broken down bed! 😂

    That's nothing, you should see the cheap turkey I eat on Thanksgiving, my wife hates it, but I save $20!

    ...
    There's plenty that you can do with spam

    ...
    ETA. "Cold or hot, spam hits the spot!"

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,671 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Were the shoes purchased from a Garden Gnome and the etched beer stein was simply not included?

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:

    @doubledragon said:

    @thisistheshow said:

    @doubledragon said:
    Nope, can't do it, I'm too cheap to gamble, I hate spending money on anything, even necessities. You should see my shoes!

    ...
    I remember your broken down bed! 😂

    That's nothing, you should see the cheap turkey I eat on Thanksgiving, my wife hates it, but I save $20!

    ...
    There's plenty that you can do with spam

    ...
    ETA. "Cold or hot, spam hits the spot!"

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:

    @thisistheshow said:

    @doubledragon said:
    Nope, can't do it, I'm too cheap to gamble, I hate spending money on anything, even necessities. You should see my shoes!

    ...
    I remember your broken down bed! 😂

    That's nothing, you should see the cheap turkey I eat on Thanksgiving, my wife hates it, but I save $20!

    that is so cool!! it is a Spurkey!! I know what i am having for thanksgiving

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinkat said:
    Were the shoes purchased from a Garden Gnome and the etched beer stein was simply not included?

    Nope, they were Nike's when I first bought them over a decade ago!

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    didnt Jack Clark, former Red Sox, lose everything to horse racing? seems like i can remember that happening back in the early 90s.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:
    by the way if you think Pete Rose gambling on baseball was bad, if Walters's accusation of Mickelson betting on the Ryder Cup is true -- even if he was betting on the USA to win -- that's borderline criminal in the world of golf

    there is going to be some serious blowback

    The idea you cant bet on yourself to win is one of the dumbest things in all of sports. He already denied it though. You should be able to bet on yourself or your team to win moneyline style with no spreads. If anything that would motivate you to play harder

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭✭

    The 1 billion is almost certainly incorrect. Unless he was betting 10 million or more a game the amount of bets he would have to make to reach a billion would make him one of the better sports betters in the world to only be down 100 million. Saying that though is a good headline to try and promote book sales

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,054 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2023 5:03PM

    @Basebal21 said:

    The 1 billion is almost certainly incorrect. Unless he was betting 10 million or more a game the amount of bets he would have to make to reach a billion would make him one of the better sports betters in the world to only be down 100 million. Saying that though is a good headline to try and promote book sales

    he said he wagered $1 billion over three decades. entirely plausible when you do the math. he laid $110k 1,115 times and $220k 858 times. that's over $300 mil from 1,973 bets ALONE. and considering he made 3,154 bets in ONE YEAR (2011), i guarantee you he crossed the 10-figure mark over the course of THIRTY years.

    as for betting on yourself to win being one of the dumbest things in all of sports, clearly you don't follow golf. we're talking about a sport that prides itself on integrity and etiquette. cheat in baseball and you can easily become enshrined. cheat in golf -- or even attempt to angle shoot -- and you instantly become persona non grata for the rest of your career. ask Patrick Reed. sullying the sport in any way, shape or form is a definite no-no.

    Have you lost your f------ mind?” I told him. “Don’t you remember what happened to Pete Rose?” The former Cincinnati Reds manager was banned from baseball for betting on his own team. “You’re seen as a modern-day Arnold Palmer,” I added. “You’d risk all that for this? I want no part of it.’’

    “Alright, alright,” he replied.

    if it was proven that Phil bet on team USA, trust me, his reputation would be irrevocably tarnished. and Arnold Palmer would be spinning like a top in his grave.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My strategy was to emulate his betting patterns to disguise the fact that it was Billy Walters, not Phil Mickelson, placing the bets. I followed his patterns, betting at the same time, in similar amounts, dogs or favorites, riding his horses as long as we could.

    The first six months of our agreement ran like Secretariat. The offshore bookies failed to detect anything different in the pattern of Phil’s bets other than that he was winning far more often. Despite our best efforts to keep the two accounts alive, it wasn’t long before the offshore bookies closed them. They told Phil the bets were far more disciplined than usual, so they knew they weren’t solely his. He could resume betting, they said, but only if it was on his own

    From my perspective, there is a lot to unpack and talk about here.

  • Alfonz24Alfonz24 Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭✭✭

    #LetsGoSwitzerlandThe Man Who Does Not Read Has No Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read. The biggest obstacle to progress is a habit of “buying what we want and begging for what we need.”You get the Freedom you fight for and get the Oppression you deserve.
  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2023 9:13AM

    @Alfonz24 said:

    Interesting thing about the cut rate romance, looking back on it, I should have married a female mannequin, like that dude in Columbia did. He saves boatloads of cash, no more dinners, movies, shopping sprees. Very smart man. And just think about it, he wins all the arguments, he's always right!

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    The 1 billion is almost certainly incorrect. Unless he was betting 10 million or more a game the amount of bets he would have to make to reach a billion would make him one of the better sports betters in the world to only be down 100 million. Saying that though is a good headline to try and promote book sales

    he said he wagered $1 billion over three decades. entirely plausible when you do the math. he laid $110k 1,115 times and $220k 858 times. that's over $300 mil from 1,973 bets ALONE. and considering he made 3,154 bets in ONE YEAR (2011), i guarantee you he crossed the 10-figure mark over the course of THIRTY years.

    as for betting on yourself to win being one of the dumbest things in all of sports, clearly you don't follow golf. we're talking about a sport that prides itself on integrity and etiquette. cheat in baseball and you can easily become enshrined. cheat in golf -- or even attempt to angle shoot -- and you instantly become persona non grata for the rest of your career. ask Patrick Reed. sullying the sport in any way, shape or form is a definite no-no.

    Have you lost your f------ mind?” I told him. “Don’t you remember what happened to Pete Rose?” The former Cincinnati Reds manager was banned from baseball for betting on his own team. “You’re seen as a modern-day Arnold Palmer,” I added. “You’d risk all that for this? I want no part of it.’’

    “Alright, alright,” he replied.

    if it was proven that Phil bet on team USA, trust me, his reputation would be irrevocably tarnished. and Arnold Palmer would be spinning like a top in his grave.

    The numbers simply dont add up. He has a little over 100 million in career earnings and didnt get his big 200 mil pay day from LIV until recently. Then he has to pay taxes and caddies. Even if you won the Masters in the 90s you won less than 300k. I get that he has other investments and sponsorships, but people seem to be underestimating how much a billion dollars actually is and over estimating how much gold players made in the 90s and 2000s

    In order for him to have bet over a billion dollars over 30 years he would have to have averaged over 30 million a year bets. He also would almost certainly be down a lot more than 100 million if he was making tens of thousands of bets all the time. Casinos arent built on winners and I am a fan of sports betting. The more bets you make though the harder it is to come out on top.

    The numbers simply dont add up

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,210 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @galaxy27 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    The 1 billion is almost certainly incorrect. Unless he was betting 10 million or more a game the amount of bets he would have to make to reach a billion would make him one of the better sports betters in the world to only be down 100 million. Saying that though is a good headline to try and promote book sales

    he said he wagered $1 billion over three decades. entirely plausible when you do the math. he laid $110k 1,115 times and $220k 858 times. that's over $300 mil from 1,973 bets ALONE. and considering he made 3,154 bets in ONE YEAR (2011), i guarantee you he crossed the 10-figure mark over the course of THIRTY years.

    as for betting on yourself to win being one of the dumbest things in all of sports, clearly you don't follow golf. we're talking about a sport that prides itself on integrity and etiquette. cheat in baseball and you can easily become enshrined. cheat in golf -- or even attempt to angle shoot -- and you instantly become persona non grata for the rest of your career. ask Patrick Reed. sullying the sport in any way, shape or form is a definite no-no.

    Have you lost your f------ mind?” I told him. “Don’t you remember what happened to Pete Rose?” The former Cincinnati Reds manager was banned from baseball for betting on his own team. “You’re seen as a modern-day Arnold Palmer,” I added. “You’d risk all that for this? I want no part of it.’’

    “Alright, alright,” he replied.

    if it was proven that Phil bet on team USA, trust me, his reputation would be irrevocably tarnished. and Arnold Palmer would be spinning like a top in his grave.

    The numbers simply dont add up. He has a little over 100 million in career earnings and didnt get his big 200 mil pay day from LIV until recently. Then he has to pay taxes and caddies. Even if you won the Masters in the 90s you won less than 300k. I get that he has other investments and sponsorships, but people seem to be underestimating how much a billion dollars actually is and over estimating how much gold players made in the 90s and 2000s

    In order for him to have bet over a billion dollars over 30 years he would have to have averaged over 30 million a year bets. He also would almost certainly be down a lot more than 100 million if he was making tens of thousands of bets all the time. Casinos arent built on winners and I am a fan of sports betting. The more bets you make though the harder it is to come out on top.

    The numbers simply dont add up

    Are you sure? And are you taking in account that he isn't claiming he forked over an actual.billion dollars, he could have bet 100k 10 times in a week, if you win the first bet now you bet that 200k and that counts for 400k right there.

    30 years is a long time especially betting nearly every day

    Follow me? I think it's absolutely possible that a billion dollars in numbers could have been wagered

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2023 3:09PM

    @perkdog said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @galaxy27 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    The 1 billion is almost certainly incorrect. Unless he was betting 10 million or more a game the amount of bets he would have to make to reach a billion would make him one of the better sports betters in the world to only be down 100 million. Saying that though is a good headline to try and promote book sales

    he said he wagered $1 billion over three decades. entirely plausible when you do the math. he laid $110k 1,115 times and $220k 858 times. that's over $300 mil from 1,973 bets ALONE. and considering he made 3,154 bets in ONE YEAR (2011), i guarantee you he crossed the 10-figure mark over the course of THIRTY years.

    as for betting on yourself to win being one of the dumbest things in all of sports, clearly you don't follow golf. we're talking about a sport that prides itself on integrity and etiquette. cheat in baseball and you can easily become enshrined. cheat in golf -- or even attempt to angle shoot -- and you instantly become persona non grata for the rest of your career. ask Patrick Reed. sullying the sport in any way, shape or form is a definite no-no.

    Have you lost your f------ mind?” I told him. “Don’t you remember what happened to Pete Rose?” The former Cincinnati Reds manager was banned from baseball for betting on his own team. “You’re seen as a modern-day Arnold Palmer,” I added. “You’d risk all that for this? I want no part of it.’’

    “Alright, alright,” he replied.

    if it was proven that Phil bet on team USA, trust me, his reputation would be irrevocably tarnished. and Arnold Palmer would be spinning like a top in his grave.

    The numbers simply dont add up. He has a little over 100 million in career earnings and didnt get his big 200 mil pay day from LIV until recently. Then he has to pay taxes and caddies. Even if you won the Masters in the 90s you won less than 300k. I get that he has other investments and sponsorships, but people seem to be underestimating how much a billion dollars actually is and over estimating how much gold players made in the 90s and 2000s

    In order for him to have bet over a billion dollars over 30 years he would have to have averaged over 30 million a year bets. He also would almost certainly be down a lot more than 100 million if he was making tens of thousands of bets all the time. Casinos arent built on winners and I am a fan of sports betting. The more bets you make though the harder it is to come out on top.

    The numbers simply dont add up

    Are you sure? And are you taking in account that he isn't claiming he forked over an actual.billion dollars, he could have bet 100k 10 times in a week, if you win the first bet now you bet that 200k and that counts for 400k right there.

    30 years is a long time especially betting nearly every day

    Follow me? I think it's absolutely possible that a billion dollars in numbers could have been wagered

    If you bet 100k then win you arent going to double it. Theres going to be odds on it. If you bet the favorite you win less then you wagered such as betting 100k and if you win you get 180k total. If you bet the underdog you get more but are more likely to lose. So say he bets 100k and wins, then bets his 180k on the next one and loses. Thats 280k but he lost. So now he has to find a new 100k.

    He simply didnt have 30+ million to be betting a year 25 years ago. 100k bets in the 90s would have meant that every bet he made was the same as the first place prize money for winning the masters when you factor in taxes and paying the caddie.

    I get you dont lose every bet you make and some of the money gets recycled, but theres professional sports gamblers that make a living off it that havent reached the billion dollar mark. Im sure he bet a lot but the billion claim thats almost certainly just hype to sell the book and theres no need for him to dispute it because it makes him sound awesome.

    Golfers made a mice living but the money in golf didnt really explode until the last decade. Tiger was an exception with the Nike commercials and his video game.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,210 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @perkdog said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @galaxy27 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    The 1 billion is almost certainly incorrect. Unless he was betting 10 million or more a game the amount of bets he would have to make to reach a billion would make him one of the better sports betters in the world to only be down 100 million. Saying that though is a good headline to try and promote book sales

    he said he wagered $1 billion over three decades. entirely plausible when you do the math. he laid $110k 1,115 times and $220k 858 times. that's over $300 mil from 1,973 bets ALONE. and considering he made 3,154 bets in ONE YEAR (2011), i guarantee you he crossed the 10-figure mark over the course of THIRTY years.

    as for betting on yourself to win being one of the dumbest things in all of sports, clearly you don't follow golf. we're talking about a sport that prides itself on integrity and etiquette. cheat in baseball and you can easily become enshrined. cheat in golf -- or even attempt to angle shoot -- and you instantly become persona non grata for the rest of your career. ask Patrick Reed. sullying the sport in any way, shape or form is a definite no-no.

    Have you lost your f------ mind?” I told him. “Don’t you remember what happened to Pete Rose?” The former Cincinnati Reds manager was banned from baseball for betting on his own team. “You’re seen as a modern-day Arnold Palmer,” I added. “You’d risk all that for this? I want no part of it.’’

    “Alright, alright,” he replied.

    if it was proven that Phil bet on team USA, trust me, his reputation would be irrevocably tarnished. and Arnold Palmer would be spinning like a top in his grave.

    The numbers simply dont add up. He has a little over 100 million in career earnings and didnt get his big 200 mil pay day from LIV until recently. Then he has to pay taxes and caddies. Even if you won the Masters in the 90s you won less than 300k. I get that he has other investments and sponsorships, but people seem to be underestimating how much a billion dollars actually is and over estimating how much gold players made in the 90s and 2000s

    In order for him to have bet over a billion dollars over 30 years he would have to have averaged over 30 million a year bets. He also would almost certainly be down a lot more than 100 million if he was making tens of thousands of bets all the time. Casinos arent built on winners and I am a fan of sports betting. The more bets you make though the harder it is to come out on top.

    The numbers simply dont add up

    Are you sure? And are you taking in account that he isn't claiming he forked over an actual.billion dollars, he could have bet 100k 10 times in a week, if you win the first bet now you bet that 200k and that counts for 400k right there.

    30 years is a long time especially betting nearly every day

    Follow me? I think it's absolutely possible that a billion dollars in numbers could have been wagered

    If you bet 100k then win you arent going to double it. Theres going to be odds on it. If you bet the favorite you win less then you wagered such as betting 100k and if you win you get 180k total. If you bet the underdog you get more but are more likely to lose. So say he bets 100k and wins, then bets his 180k on the next one and loses. Thats 280k but he lost. So now he has to find a new 100k.

    He simply didnt have 30+ million to be betting a year 25 years ago. 100k bets in the 90s would have meant that every bet he made was the same as the first place prize money for winning the masters when you factor in taxes and paying the caddie.

    I get you dont lose every bet you make and some of the money gets recycled, but theres professional sports gamblers that make a living off it that havent reached the billion dollar mark. Im sure he bet a lot but the billion claim thats almost certainly just hype to sell the book and theres no need for him to dispute it because it makes him sound awesome.

    Golfers made a mice living but the money in golf didnt really explode until the last decade. Tiger was an exception with the Nike commercials and his video game.

    You don't understand how degenerate gamblers operate, they will bet on Longshots more so than "Safe" bets,

    I understand the position to have a flashy claim to get lookers to buy the book ect but idk 30 years is a long time.

    I'm not a math guy but I actually believe it's definitely more closer to the billion than you think but who knows for sure

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And from what it sounds like, the offshore bookies kept him around because he was a loser who kept coming back. He paid their mortgage. So he was playing with his money. Not parlaying winnings.
    Once he partnered up and started winning, adious.

    Have a nice day
  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @perkdog said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @galaxy27 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    The 1 billion is almost certainly incorrect. Unless he was betting 10 million or more a game the amount of bets he would have to make to reach a billion would make him one of the better sports betters in the world to only be down 100 million. Saying that though is a good headline to try and promote book sales

    he said he wagered $1 billion over three decades. entirely plausible when you do the math. he laid $110k 1,115 times and $220k 858 times. that's over $300 mil from 1,973 bets ALONE. and considering he made 3,154 bets in ONE YEAR (2011), i guarantee you he crossed the 10-figure mark over the course of THIRTY years.

    as for betting on yourself to win being one of the dumbest things in all of sports, clearly you don't follow golf. we're talking about a sport that prides itself on integrity and etiquette. cheat in baseball and you can easily become enshrined. cheat in golf -- or even attempt to angle shoot -- and you instantly become persona non grata for the rest of your career. ask Patrick Reed. sullying the sport in any way, shape or form is a definite no-no.

    Have you lost your f------ mind?” I told him. “Don’t you remember what happened to Pete Rose?” The former Cincinnati Reds manager was banned from baseball for betting on his own team. “You’re seen as a modern-day Arnold Palmer,” I added. “You’d risk all that for this? I want no part of it.’’

    “Alright, alright,” he replied.

    if it was proven that Phil bet on team USA, trust me, his reputation would be irrevocably tarnished. and Arnold Palmer would be spinning like a top in his grave.

    The numbers simply dont add up. He has a little over 100 million in career earnings and didnt get his big 200 mil pay day from LIV until recently. Then he has to pay taxes and caddies. Even if you won the Masters in the 90s you won less than 300k. I get that he has other investments and sponsorships, but people seem to be underestimating how much a billion dollars actually is and over estimating how much gold players made in the 90s and 2000s

    In order for him to have bet over a billion dollars over 30 years he would have to have averaged over 30 million a year bets. He also would almost certainly be down a lot more than 100 million if he was making tens of thousands of bets all the time. Casinos arent built on winners and I am a fan of sports betting. The more bets you make though the harder it is to come out on top.

    The numbers simply dont add up

    Are you sure? And are you taking in account that he isn't claiming he forked over an actual.billion dollars, he could have bet 100k 10 times in a week, if you win the first bet now you bet that 200k and that counts for 400k right there.

    30 years is a long time especially betting nearly every day

    Follow me? I think it's absolutely possible that a billion dollars in numbers could have been wagered

    If you bet 100k then win you arent going to double it. Theres going to be odds on it. If you bet the favorite you win less then you wagered such as betting 100k and if you win you get 180k total. If you bet the underdog you get more but are more likely to lose. So say he bets 100k and wins, then bets his 180k on the next one and loses. Thats 280k but he lost. So now he has to find a new 100k.

    He simply didnt have 30+ million to be betting a year 25 years ago. 100k bets in the 90s would have meant that every bet he made was the same as the first place prize money for winning the masters when you factor in taxes and paying the caddie.

    I get you dont lose every bet you make and some of the money gets recycled, but theres professional sports gamblers that make a living off it that havent reached the billion dollar mark. Im sure he bet a lot but the billion claim thats almost certainly just hype to sell the book and theres no need for him to dispute it because it makes him sound awesome.

    Golfers made a mice living but the money in golf didnt really explode until the last decade. Tiger was an exception with the Nike commercials and his video game.

    You don't understand how degenerate gamblers operate, they will bet on Longshots more so than "Safe" bets,

    I understand the position to have a flashy claim to get lookers to buy the book ect but idk 30 years is a long time.

    I'm not a math guy but I actually believe it's definitely more closer to the billion than you think but who knows for sure

    I definitely understand degenerate gamblers and how it can even be fun to follow along some time betting the over under on the national anthem or the color of the Gatorade poured on the coach etc.

    It doesnt change the fact that even if you are the biggest gambler in the history of the world, you cant make a bet if you dont have the money. He made something like 110 million playing 5-10% of that goes to the caddie (I believe its 10 now) and then half goes to taxes.

    His prime was when endorsements were no where near the money they are today. You also dont start with endorsements and everything being free on the tour you have to work your way up to being a name. He also got married sometime in the late 90s and has three kids, I seriously doubt theyre all just living in a cardboard box together.

    I have doubts that a billion dollars have even passed through his hands in his entire life much less bet it. I doubt hes even bet 100 million unless he has some generational wealth or is the greatest investor of all time.

    Someone writing a book for sales and attention making someone look like a legend. Its ;ole fishing stories, someone catches a 100 pound king salmon and by the time its in a book they somehow reeled in a blue whale.

    If it comes out that LIV game him the company card and said bet all you want then okay, other than that the numbers dont add up

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,210 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    didnt Jack Clark, former Red Sox, lose everything to horse racing? seems like i can remember that happening back in the early 90s.

    I think Clark had the typical overspending habits, he was heavy into cars I know that, I don't remember him being linked to a gambling problem

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,054 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2023 12:30AM

    i guess i'm not quite understanding why the $1 bil figure sticks in baseball's craw so much. $1 bil, less than $1 bil, who really gives a shit? eotd, it's an astronomical figure.

    but if you really can't sleep at night until you find out if that allegation is entirely accurate or not, then at least stop harping on his on-course prize money when the lion's share of his earnings was made off of it. the $100+ mil he has made playing golf is a drop in the bucket compared to what he has raked in via sponsorships, course design, appearances fees, and the loot he received from the Saudis. all told, north of $1 billion in his career.

    someone popped off to him not long ago on twitter and this was his reply:

    so if you want to remain steadfast and incessantly question absolute minutiae, knock yourself out. but all of the numbers bear out the feasibility of the claim. moreover, Mickelson only disputed one bullet point in his retort: he said he never bet on the Ryder Cup. if Walters had fabricated the hell out of the amount and volume, i assure you Mickelson would have addressed that as well, because he is not one to allow baseless accusations to slide. but he didn't, and that speaks volumes.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ^^^^Good post^^^^

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:
    i guess i'm not quite understanding why the $1 bil figure sticks in baseball's craw so much. $1 bil, less than $1 bil, who really gives a shit? eotd, it's an astronomical figure.

    but if you really can't sleep at night until you find out if that allegation is entirely accurate or not, then at least stop harping on his on-course prize money when the lion's share of his earnings was made off of it. the $100+ mil he has made playing golf is a drop in the bucket compared to what he has raked in via sponsorships, course design, appearances fees, and the loot he received from the Saudis. all told, north of $1 billion in his career.

    someone popped off to him not long ago on twitter and this was his reply:

    so if you want to remain steadfast and incessantly question absolute minutiae, knock yourself out. but all of the numbers bear out the feasibility of the claim. moreover, Mickelson only disputed one bullet point in his retort: he said he never bet on the Ryder Cup. if Walters had fabricated the hell out of the amount and volume, i assure you Mickelson would have addressed that as well, because he is not one to allow baseless accusations to slide. but he didn't, and that speaks volumes.

    "Haven't gambled in years almost a billionaire now"

    So hasnt gambled in years yet thats when he made all his money? Someone isnt losing sleep at night for debating a claim which is what forums are for, disucssions.

    If youre a multimillionaire that doesnt realize how much a billion dollars is well good for you

    Theres no reason for him to ever dispute the number from his associate when the number makes him look like a legend. He has already disputed facts of it, so either hes lying or exaggerations are happening

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My 2 cents...kinda wordy, but here goes.

    Gambling is NOT for everyone. My game is blackjack, which provides about the best odds of winning short term, craps being the better of the two, but only slightly. I say short term, because over time, the odds at either blackjack or craps will eventually wear you down. It is indeed an emotional thing to gamble, and if you gamble with any money that might affect your lifestyle, impact your family, or cause a serious mental stress, don't go into the casino other than to maybe catch a show.

    Once upon a time I was RFB at the Mirage in Vegas. This meant that my room, my meals and beverages were comped. You gotta play at a fairly high (not crazy high) level to reach RFB, something around $150-200 average bet times 4 hours. Yeah, it was nice, and overall, I would say I came close to breaking even, or a bit ahead, not much of a swing either way. Wife and I enjoyed our time back in the 1990s-early 2000s and then it got to be not so exciting, not because of the wins or losses, but it just seemed like we were going a little more than we should. So Vegas was done. We then focused on Beau Rivage in Biloxi, MS, which we enjoyed and many times got free rooms. Well, the term free is a misnomer, you still gotta have a fairly large average bet times so many hours to get a "free" room and tix to concerts. Its a nice perk, but then you kinda get jaded. Haven't been there in years and years.

    I have probably seen just about everything there is to see on a blackjack table. I have not seen anyone rip cards, but I've seen them thrown at the dealer. Again, the emotional side of desperate people placing big bets that lose can be crushing to them.
    What amazed me most was people playing and didn't know the rules. The Beau Rivage has lots of junkets flying into Gulfport, MS with busloads of wide-eyed gamblers, most of them play slots and while away the hours sitting in front of some visual entertainment and constantly hitting the spin button, expecting some return, but most often lose. They have no conception of RNG (Random Number Generator) that dictates which symbols come up. Anyway...I RARELY play slots, and when I do, its to enjoy some time with the wife. When we do, its always either a triple or double diamond $1 machine.

    I enjoy the casino environment and must say, I know what I'm doing. I'm not a lamb going to slaughter without a clue. I am educated in the game to the point I am almost a machine when I bet and play. I have a self-imposed rule when I go...I take $1.5k and gamble with $1k. I play on a $25 table. The odds will most likely say I should lose with such a paltry bank against my wagers. However, I have found this to be my personal comfort zone. I go with a couple of buddies, but have gone solo, which is a 6 hour round trip for me throught the north GA mountains, so, the drive is bearable. My #1 rule is that if I win $1k, I have the key fob in my hand, I color up and I am G-O-N-E. None of this crazy crap about I'm hot, the cards are hot, or it's my day...BS, $1k either way and I am done. One of the most difficult things to do is to accept a loss, and get your feet in gear and go home. At this point, I've learned to take it all in stride, up $1k or down $1k and my day is done. A $1k loss does not affect my life not one iota. BTW, I play at a $25 table because there you'll most often play with players who know what they're doing. When you get a good group its almost like poetry in motion. No crazy high-5s, not screams when somebody gets a blackjack, just easy chit chat and a general nod when a player wins a hand with a big bet out of maybe $2-300. I never play at a $5 table, I'm not a snob, but I can't deal with the childish crap there, you may have seen "Mr. Cool" who likes to push out a tall stack of $5 chips, or the screaming lady who gets a blackjack with a $5 bet out, those that don't split, have no clue about doubling down and those that drink and drink and drink...which is the very WORST THING you can do in a casino while gambling.

    A KEY to blackjack is to either count cards (and not bring attention to yourself), OR know Basic Strategy like the back of your hand. There are some 18 things I do constantly depending on the dealer's up card. He/she has "X", I do "Y". I play a rock solid Basic Strategy It works for me. Unless you are willing to put in the time to learn the rules, NEVER play hunches, you will not win in the casino.

    So, without getting too far gone here...if you gamble, know the rules, have a stop loss limit, don't drink and damn sure don't take a dollar that will affect you in any way.

    Enjoy the pics...the chips are from a cruise we were on in Greece on their new ship The Beyond. The slot jackpot win pic was at the MGM Vegas killing time waiting to see Celine Dion. I threw in the straight flush for grins...WHAT A RIVER CARD!! B)B)

    PLAY SMART!!!



  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭✭

    "So hasnt gambled in years yet thats when he made all his money?"

    Basbal21, you don't seem to have any idea what you are talking about. Mickelson has made hundreds of millions of dollars in endorsements, appearance fees, etc. He was a superstar as soon as he started playing on the PGA tour (he won a tournament as an amateur in 1991). The idea that he has only recently made the bulk of his fortune is nonsense. He and Tiger were the two highest paid golfers in the world for almost two decades.

    Saw an article that said Mickelson has made over $800 million dollars in endorsements, appearance fees, etc...let that sink in. That doesn't count his on course winnings or the LIV deal. He absolutely could have bet $40 million a year if he wanted to especially if he was only losing 10-20% of that annually.

    Robb

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