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Need help identifying some Canadain large cent varieties.

Within shouting distance of completing my Canadia large cent collection, but a few of the varieties have me confused. My first question involves the 1891 small date coins. I believe both coins pictured are the large leaf versions. Are either the small dates?
Question 2 involves the 1859/8 narrow 9. There is a slot for it in the old LOC album I'm using, but I seem to recall another forum member declaring in a post that there is no such coin. Is there? For now I just have a "narrow 9" in the slot. Question 3, This book also has a place for the 1859 "recut date." Haven't seen one on ebay or elsewhere. Anyone have a photo of what to look for or somewhere I can find one?
Thanks in adavnce.

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Proud recipient of the coveted "You Suck Award" (9/3/10).

Comments

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭✭✭

    J & M coin has good photos of Canadian coin varieties:
    https://www.jandm.com/script/getitem.asp?CID=3&PID=76

  • OnWithTheHuntOnWithTheHunt Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yosclimber said:
    J & M coin has good photos of Canadian coin varieties:
    https://www.jandm.com/script/getitem.asp?CID=3&PID=76

    Thanks. That's a help

    Proud recipient of the coveted "You Suck Award" (9/3/10).
  • GreenstangGreenstang Posts: 725 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2023 1:09PM

    Not an expert on these but I can help a bit.
    Question 1, they are both Large Dates, Large Leaves.
    Question 2, All 1859/8 cents are the “Narrow 9” variety, so no need to call it a narrow 9.
    Question 3, as far as I know, there is no recut date, perhaps they mean repunched date
    of which there are about two dozen different varieties.
    I’m sure one of our Vickie experts can add more to this.

  • sylsyl Posts: 885 ✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2023 12:14PM

    To start the 1859 mint year, there were no masters or dies ready, so they had to make do with all the 1858's that had already been used for a year. All 9/8's are "wide" or "large" 9's. They repunched a different larger font 9 over the normal 8 in an attempt to erase or hide the underlying 8's until new complete reverse dies were ready. The experiment didn't work well, so well less than a million actual 9/8's are around. Then, they gave up and ground off the "8" from the 1858 dies, just leaving the "185" when the coins were struck on the planchets. Then 9's were handpunched into the vacant spot, with each whack with the hammer & punch made with the punch hardened and the planchet annealed(softened). Most partially finished planchets took 2 or more punches, also with the hardening and annealing. Sometimes, it may have been hours, days or weeks between the first, second, third. It was not easy to perfectly match the positioning of the 9, so many, many repunched, triple-punched exist, varying from N-S & E-W. If you go to the Haxby 1859 site, you will see that there are well over 200 1859 varieties and that doesn't include the 9/8's. Get a copy of the 65th edition of Charlton (2011) with the Vicky varities of all dates. We included 10-12 popular varieties. Most older holders may have narrow 9, wide 9, wide 9/8 or just 9/8. I've never seen one that said "recut". Here's the Haxby 1859 guide for varieties: https://www.vickycents.com/

    Your 1891's are both large leaves, large date, as shown above. The small leaves have no leaves that touch the denticles. Your 2 coins above touch. and small leaves have a nice gap to the denticles.All small leaves will also be small date.

  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,666 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1859 is fascinating year for Canadian large cent die varieties. The Haxby site mentioned above is a great reference. Here is another website for 1859 Canadian large cents.
    https://www.coinsandcanada.com/coins-prices.php?coin=1-cent-1859

    image
  • sylsyl Posts: 885 ✭✭✭

    I received your reply, but can't reply vis in internet. send me a direct email. tks

  • sylsyl Posts: 885 ✭✭✭

    I sent you an email. The coins above are not the same as the EBay coin you sent me via message. THAT coin was a SD/LL Obv 3

  • sylsyl Posts: 885 ✭✭✭

    After a couple emails with "onwiththehunt", I now know what the slots are describing in his old album, as the album has these holes: "Book has slots for regular 59, which I have, re-engraved date 59 and wide and narrow 9 overdates." I took a look at my 1975 Charlton that shows them all. The re-engraved date is a DP#2, the narrow overdate is a DP#1, with the wide overdate a normal 9/8 with good offset. He also has a hole for a "wide 9", which I take as a 9/8 with not much offset. He now has the coins to put in the correct holes. You all should check your old old albums with holes.

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