Another "Grade This Coin" Thread

M4Madness

I'm seriously searching for a 1885-CC Morgan in a circulated grade and came across this raw, ungraded one.

1. Is it genuine?

2. If so, would it grade straight without details (cleaning, etc.)?

3. Any guesses on grade?

I would prefer one graded and slabbed already, but beggars can't be choosers. I hate to be another newbie posting a thread like this, but i honestly have no alternatives. Thank you for any replies. I sincerely appreciate it.

asheland

My initial gut is VF 35 straight grade.

M4Madness

@asheland said:
My initial gut is VF 35 straight grade.

Honestly, that's where I "think" it should be, as I own three PCGS VF35 Morgans to which to compare it. But, I have zero experience in detecting counterfeit or cleaned coins. I'm pretty confident that the seller wouldn't offer fake coins, so my real concern is pretty much if it'll grade straight. I cannot afford to buy it, send it off, and it come back with details.

asheland

@M4Madness said:

@asheland said:
My initial gut is VF 35 straight grade.

Honestly, that's where I "think" it should be, as I own three PCGS VF35 Morgans to which to compare it. But, I have zero experience in detecting counterfeit or cleaned coins. I'm pretty confident that the seller wouldn't offer fake coins, so my real concern is pretty much if it'll grade straight. I cannot afford to buy it, send it off, and it come back with details.

Without seeing it in hand, I can’t say for sure, but as soon as I saw the coin in the picture, immediately I thought: Genuine, VF35, Straight grade.

We will see what the other say, but I think it has a nice look to it personally.

👍

MFeld

The coin looks genuine and like one that would merit a straight grade of approximately VF25.
If you haven’t already done so, I suggest you make use of this PCGS Photograde site:
https://www.pcgs.com/photograde#/Dollars

“ I'm seriously searching for a 1985-CC Morgan in a circulated grade and came across this raw, ungraded one”.

I must caution you that you’re not going to find a genuine “1985-CC”.

M4Madness

@MFeld said:
The coin looks genuine and like one that would merit a straight grade of approximately VF25.
If you haven’t already done so, I suggest you make use of this PCGS Photograde site:
https://www.pcgs.com/photograde#/Dollars

“ I'm seriously searching for a 1985-CC Morgan in a circulated grade and came across this raw, ungraded one”.

I must caution you that you’re not going to find a genuine “1985-CC”.

Oops. Corrected! Lol! Thanks for finding that for me.

Do you think it could squeak out a VF35? I'm really in the market for a VF35-XF45. I already own an 1885-CC in MS64, but want a nice circulated one to replace it with.

MFeld

@M4Madness said:

@MFeld said:
The coin looks genuine and like one that would merit a straight grade of approximately VF25.
If you haven’t already done so, I suggest you make use of this PCGS Photograde site:
https://www.pcgs.com/photograde#/Dollars

“ I'm seriously searching for a 1985-CC Morgan in a circulated grade and came across this raw, ungraded one”.

I must caution you that you’re not going to find a genuine “1985-CC”.

Oops. Corrected! Lol! Thanks for finding that for me.

Do you think it could squeak out a VF35? I'm really in the market for a VF35-XF45. I already own an 1885-CC in MS64, but want a nice circulated one to replace it with.

You’re most welcome.😉 I don’t think it would grade 35, but I’m wrong on plenty of occasions.

M4Madness

I just don't have an eye for grading. I can swipe between VF25, VF30, and VF35 on Photograde and not really see differences. Lol! I try to look at the hair around the forehead, but there's more to it than that. I also look at the cotton, but on Photograde, the cotton doesn't look as defined on the VF35 as it does on the VF30 example. I understand that wear can be on different areas and doesn't necessarily have it be in the same location between the graded examples. I've noticed that darker coins sometimes show better details due to dirt and grime getting in the lines and enhancing them.

MFeld

@M4Madness said:
I just don't have an eye for grading. I can swipe between VF25, VF30, and VF35 on Photograde and not really see differences. Lol! I try to look at the hair around the forehead, but there's more to it than that. I also look at the cotton, but on Photograde, the cotton doesn't look as defined on the VF35 as it does on the VF30 example. I understand that wear can be on different areas and doesn't necessarily have it be in the same location between the graded examples. I've noticed that darker coins sometimes show better details due to dirt and grime getting in the lines and enhancing them.

Not all coins wear evenly and not all are consistently graded, so it’s tough to come up with a precise number. I looked at Photograde before I guessed VF25. Afterwards, I looked at pictures of various VF graded coins and became less confident about my guess.

M4Madness

Being in a PCGS slab would make this a lot easier. Lol!

I understand that grading is subjective, and that there are both undergraded and overgraded coins in slabs. I learned pretty quickly that members here say "Buy the coin, not the slab", but I'd be happy to buy it if the slab were labeled VF35. Lol!

morgandollar1878

I would call it VF25.

M4Madness

Here's an 1885-CC graded VF35 to compare to. I sure wish it were for sale. Lol!

Coinscratch

Looks cleaned to me, more than once.

MFeld

@Coinscratch said:
Looks cleaned to me, more than once.

Which one, the subject coin or the PCGS VF35?

Coinscratch

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:
Looks cleaned to me, more than once.

Which one, the subject coin or the PCGS VF35?

The subject coin of course. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and that’s just a picture. But if you want a different answer resubmit the question and wait three months and I just might have another answer for ya 😂

MFeld

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:
Looks cleaned to me, more than once.

Which one, the subject coin or the PCGS VF35?

The subject coin of course. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and that’s just a picture. But if you want a different answer resubmit the question and wait three months and I just might have another answer for ya 😂

If you asked me which of the two I thought was more deserving of a “cleaned” designation, I’d choose the graded one.

Coinscratch

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:
Looks cleaned to me, more than once.

Which one, the subject coin or the PCGS VF35?

The subject coin of course. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and that’s just a picture. But if you want a different answer resubmit the question and wait three months and I just might have another answer for ya 😂

If you asked me which of the two I thought was more deserving of a “cleaned” designation, I’d choose the graded one.

Well I thought they both look cleaned but since that one straight graded I didn’t want to question it. I assume this coin is one of the biggies and that’s why PCGS was very lenient.

I suppose it could just be wear and tear and typical circulation. From what I’ve learned here the extremely clean fields mixed with gunk filled devices I thought it was a telltale sign.

MFeld

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:
Looks cleaned to me, more than once.

Which one, the subject coin or the PCGS VF35?

The subject coin of course. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and that’s just a picture. But if you want a different answer resubmit the question and wait three months and I just might have another answer for ya 😂

If you asked me which of the two I thought was more deserving of a “cleaned” designation, I’d choose the graded one.

Well I thought they both look cleaned but since that one straight graded I didn’t want to question it. I assume this coin is one of the biggies and that’s why PCGS was very lenient.

I suppose it could just be wear and tear and typical circulation. From what I’ve learned here the extremely clean fields mixed with gunk filled devices I thought it was a telltale sign.

That date isn’t one of the biggies. In VF, it’s about a $700 coin.

M4Madness

@MFeld said:
That date isn’t one of the biggies. In VF, it’s about a $700 coin.

It's a biggie in CIRCULATED grades. I have a couple hundred choices at this very moment in mint state, not counting the MS64 I already own. I'd pay above PCGS Price Guide Value for a VF35-XF45. I know where one is in AU, but I'm not really interested below or above my required range.

Coinscratch

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:
Looks cleaned to me, more than once.

Which one, the subject coin or the PCGS VF35?

The subject coin of course. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and that’s just a picture. But if you want a different answer resubmit the question and wait three months and I just might have another answer for ya 😂

If you asked me which of the two I thought was more deserving of a “cleaned” designation, I’d choose the graded one.

Well I thought they both look cleaned but since that one straight graded I didn’t want to question it. I assume this coin is one of the biggies and that’s why PCGS was very lenient.

I suppose it could just be wear and tear and typical circulation. From what I’ve learned here the extremely clean fields mixed with gunk filled devices I thought it was a telltale sign.

That date isn’t one of the biggies. In VF, it’s about a $700 coin.

That’s a biggie to me, the coins I collect have to hit 67 in order to be worth $700

Manifest_Destiny

VF20 and I think it would straight grade.

RLSnapper

Obviously, it all depends on how big $700 is to you. @MFeld feels $700 is peanuts...he is entitled to his opinion. In Renaissance Europe, coin collecting became known as the "hobby of kings," because it was frequently the purview of royalty or others with significant disposable income. As such I dub thee King Feld . All members kneel before him. His words become truth and are not to be disputed. So it is written.so it shall be.

MFeld

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:
Looks cleaned to me, more than once.

Which one, the subject coin or the PCGS VF35?

The subject coin of course. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and that’s just a picture. But if you want a different answer resubmit the question and wait three months and I just might have another answer for ya 😂

If you asked me which of the two I thought was more deserving of a “cleaned” designation, I’d choose the graded one.

Well I thought they both look cleaned but since that one straight graded I didn’t want to question it. I assume this coin is one of the biggies and that’s why PCGS was very lenient.

I suppose it could just be wear and tear and typical circulation. From what I’ve learned here the extremely clean fields mixed with gunk filled devices I thought it was a telltale sign.

That date isn’t one of the biggies. In VF, it’s about a $700 coin.

That’s a biggie to me, the coins I collect have to hit 67 in order to be worth $700

When you said you assumed it was one of the “biggies”, I thought you were talking about within the Morgan dollar series. There are 9 or 10 other dates in the series with higher values in VF - some of them with much higher values.

M4Madness

Out of the 13 Carson City Morgan dollars, I'd rank 1885 as #4 behind 1889, 1879, and 1893. The 1885-CC had the lowest mintage of the thirteen, and its only saving grace was the GSA Hoard flooded the market with mint state specimens.

Coinscratch

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:
Looks cleaned to me, more than once.

Which one, the subject coin or the PCGS VF35?

The subject coin of course. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and that’s just a picture. But if you want a different answer resubmit the question and wait three months and I just might have another answer for ya 😂

If you asked me which of the two I thought was more deserving of a “cleaned” designation, I’d choose the graded one.

Well I thought they both look cleaned but since that one straight graded I didn’t want to question it. I assume this coin is one of the biggies and that’s why PCGS was very lenient.

I suppose it could just be wear and tear and typical circulation. From what I’ve learned here the extremely clean fields mixed with gunk filled devices I thought it was a telltale sign.

That date isn’t one of the biggies. In VF, it’s about a $700 coin.

That’s a biggie to me, the coins I collect have to hit 67 in order to be worth $700

When you said you assumed it was one of the “biggies”, I thought you were talking about within the Morgan dollar series. There are 9 or 10 other dates in the series with higher values in VF - some of them with much higher values.

Well actually I thought you were just being facetious as I’m sure that coin in mint state condition is 5 digits.

M4Madness

@Coinscratch said:
Well actually I thought you were just being facetious as I’m sure that coin in mint state condition is 5 digits.

An 1885-CC in MS64 is currently valued by PCGS at $1100.

Coinscratch

@M4Madness said:

@Coinscratch said:
Well actually I thought you were just being facetious as I’m sure that coin in mint state condition is 5 digits.

An 1885-CC in MS64 is currently valued by PCGS at $1100.

Oh okay good to know but for now I’m having too much fun splashing around in the shallows. However I did recently put a down payment on a couple of Peace dollars. ✌️

M4Madness

When I first started this Carson City Morgan collection (I have 5 of the 13), I started with the hardest one first, then the next hardest, and so on. That makes them cheaper as I go down the list.

After I bought the MS64 1885, I wished that I'd have gone the circulated route instead. The 1885 will be the hardest circulated in the set. If I cannot locate one, then my journey for a circulated set will end and I'll buy mint state specimens for the remaining eight.

Manifest_Destiny

Good luck on your set. Personally, I'd hold out and work on a circulated set. 85cc is hard but they do show up. A VF-XF set of CC Morgans would be awesome.

Coinscratch

85cc circ. Noted just in case I come across one for you. Typically the only time I see these are in the big black holders typically around ms63/4. But you never know because I visit a lot of pawnshops as well.

pmh1nic

Are there any 100+ year old VF coins that haven’t been “cleaned”? I’m thinking of cleaning in the sense of having been rubbed by a cloth. And given the worn condition of VF coins would most collectors even care? We also think of dipping as cleaning? Would there be any purpose in dipping a VF?

Manifest_Destiny

Lots of 19th century VF coins have never been cleaned. Especially Morgans since they're so common.

cameonut2011

I agree with VF 25

pmh1nic

@Manifest_Destiny said:
Lots of 19th century VF coins have never been cleaned. Especially Morgans since they're so common.

What would be the signs that a 100÷ year old VF coin has been cleaned?

cameonut2011

@pmh1nic said:

@Manifest_Destiny said:
Lots of 19th century VF coins have never been cleaned. Especially Morgans since they're so common.

What would be the signs that a 100÷ year old VF coin has been cleaned?

Hairlines, surface irregularities, unusual coloration variation/changes, artificial glossy appearance, etc.

dcarr

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:

@MFeld said:

@Coinscratch said:
Looks cleaned to me, more than once.

Which one, the subject coin or the PCGS VF35?

The subject coin of course. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and that’s just a picture. But if you want a different answer resubmit the question and wait three months and I just might have another answer for ya 😂

If you asked me which of the two I thought was more deserving of a “cleaned” designation, I’d choose the graded one.

I agree - if I had to designate one as cleaned, it would be the PCGS graded one.
But I don't think either one is "cleaned" beyond market acceptability.

M4Madness

I've decided that there's just too much of a possibility that it won't meet my VF35 minimum, so I'm going to hold out for a graded one and let someone else have this raw one.

mark_dak

@M4Madness said:
I've decided that there's just too much of a possibility that it won't meet my VF35 minimum, so I'm going to hold out for a graded one and let someone else have this raw one.

Based on your insistence on a certain grade, I think this is your best option.> @Coinscratch said:

85cc circ. Noted just in case I come across one for you. Typically the only time I see these are in the big black holders typically around ms63/4. But you never know because I visit a lot of pawnshops as well.

"Big black holders" Are you talking about GSA uncirculated holders?

Mark

mark_dak

@M4Madness said:
I've decided that there's just too much of a possibility that it won't meet my VF35 minimum, so I'm going to hold out for a graded one and let someone else have this raw one.

Based on your insistence on a certain grade, I think this is your best option otherwise you could end up with a hand full of examples you pay for to have graded before you get what you're looking for.

Mark

Coinscratch

@mark_dak said:

@M4Madness said:
I've decided that there's just too much of a possibility that it won't meet my VF35 minimum, so I'm going to hold out for a graded one and let someone else have this raw one.

Based on your insistence on a certain grade, I think this is your best option.> @Coinscratch said:

85cc circ. Noted just in case I come across one for you. Typically the only time I see these are in the big black holders typically around ms63/4. But you never know because I visit a lot of pawnshops as well.

"Big black holders" Are you talking about GSA uncirculated holders?

Mark

If that's what they're called? They look the same as the ones silver Ikes come in.

I almost bought one a while back, don't remember the year but the coin looked easily 65. The ask price was around 400 but it was more than I could spend at the moment especially not knowing the series well enough.

mark_dak

@Coinscratch said:

@mark_dak said:

@M4Madness said:
I've decided that there's just too much of a possibility that it won't meet my VF35 minimum, so I'm going to hold out for a graded one and let someone else have this raw one.

Based on your insistence on a certain grade, I think this is your best option.> @Coinscratch said:

85cc circ. Noted just in case I come across one for you. Typically the only time I see these are in the big black holders typically around ms63/4. But you never know because I visit a lot of pawnshops as well.

"Big black holders" Are you talking about GSA uncirculated holders?

Mark

If that's what they're called? They look the same as the ones silver Ikes come in.

OK, yes those were sold by the government in to 70's in a weird auction style sale. That hoard brought the 85-CC, among others, down to earth. Government stashing thousands of examples for decades and pouring them out into the public is the reason there are so many UNC examples of CC Morgans. It's probably a good reason why the originator of this thread is having such a difficult time finding a decent circulated example.

Mark

Coinscratch

@mark_dak said:

@Coinscratch said:

@mark_dak said:

@M4Madness said:
I've decided that there's just too much of a possibility that it won't meet my VF35 minimum, so I'm going to hold out for a graded one and let someone else have this raw one.

Based on your insistence on a certain grade, I think this is your best option.> @Coinscratch said:

85cc circ. Noted just in case I come across one for you. Typically the only time I see these are in the big black holders typically around ms63/4. But you never know because I visit a lot of pawnshops as well.

"Big black holders" Are you talking about GSA uncirculated holders?

Mark

If that's what they're called? They look the same as the ones silver Ikes come in.

OK, yes those were sold by the government in to 70's in a weird auction style sale. That hoard brought the 85-CC, among others, down to earth. Government stashing thousands of examples for decades and pouring them out into the public is the reason there are so many UNC examples of CC Morgans. It's probably a good reason why the originator of this thread is having such a difficult time finding a decent circulated example.

Mark

70s? Before televised shopping I presume. I have yet to ever buy anything from the TV
What if the OP just cracked one out and put it in a container with some sand and pellets. Then attach it to the lower suspension arm on his truck for a month or two.

M4Madness

@Coinscratch said:
What if the OP just cracked one out and put it in a container with some sand and pellets. Then attach it to the lower suspension arm on his truck for a month or two.

I had to laugh at that. Lol!

Coinscratch

@M4Madness said:

@Coinscratch said:
What if the OP just cracked one out and put it in a container with some sand and pellets. Then attach it to the lower suspension arm on his truck for a month or two.

I had to laugh at that. Lol!

Paint can shaker at Home Depot would be quicker…in fact they’ll have the other stuff as well so there you go

mark_dak

@Coinscratch said:

@mark_dak said:

@Coinscratch said:

@mark_dak said:

@M4Madness said:
I've decided that there's just too much of a possibility that it won't meet my VF35 minimum, so I'm going to hold out for a graded one and let someone else have this raw one.

Based on your insistence on a certain grade, I think this is your best option.> @Coinscratch said:

85cc circ. Noted just in case I come across one for you. Typically the only time I see these are in the big black holders typically around ms63/4. But you never know because I visit a lot of pawnshops as well.

"Big black holders" Are you talking about GSA uncirculated holders?

Mark

If that's what they're called? They look the same as the ones silver Ikes come in.

OK, yes those were sold by the government in to 70's in a weird auction style sale. That hoard brought the 85-CC, among others, down to earth. Government stashing thousands of examples for decades and pouring them out into the public is the reason there are so many UNC examples of CC Morgans. It's probably a good reason why the originator of this thread is having such a difficult time finding a decent circulated example.

Mark

70s? Before televised shopping I presume. I have yet to ever buy anything from the TV
What if the OP just cracked one out and put it in a container with some sand and pellets. Then attach it to the lower suspension arm on his truck for a month or two.

Hahaha! Not sure how old Rick Tomaska was... How about mail bids? Can't verify everything in this link but I'm sure the numbers are pretty spot on;

https://www.southgatecoins.com/gsa-carson-city-hoard-history

Mark

coastaljerseyguy

Good chance the OP can straight grade VF30, although believe it has been lightly dipped in the past. The holdered coin has slightly more meat on it but believe it was dipped/cleaned more prominently. Very little grime for a well circulated coin.

M4Madness

@coastaljerseyguy said:
Good chance the OP can straight grade VF30, although believe it has been lightly dipped in the past. The holdered coin has slightly more meat on it but believe it was dipped/cleaned more prominently. Very little grime for a well circulated coin.

The coin in the original post sold this afternoon on eBay for $761 -- without me even placing a bid.

The photo of the holdered VF35 coin posted above was one that I saw on an old auction on Heritage. I took a chance and sent an anonymous offer to purchase it and have been anxiously awaiting a reply. A few minutes ago, I received notice that the current owner accepted my offer and it is now mine. I'll admit that I paid an MS64 price for it, but it has a PCGS population of 29 in that grade and I REALLY wanted a circulated 1885-CC. If it was ever cleaned, PCGS did not grade it as such.

M4Madness

I'm looking at another Carson City Morgan of a different year. Are those fine lines the result of cleaning, or simply from circulation? The coin is NOT currently graded with details, but is slabbed by a company other than PCGS.

Manifest_Destiny

Yeah, I think it's been cleaned.

gumby1234

@M4Madness If ANACS says its details graded I would believe whatever they put on the slab label.

M4Madness

@gumby1234 said:
@M4Madness If ANACS says its details graded I would believe whatever they put on the slab label.

The label says straight grade.