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Wildman Thaler

CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

I recently purchased this 1624 Wildman Thaler. It’s going into my (old large foreign silver) box of 20. I like the look and he fits in well with the other coins in the box so far. My approach has been to find a coin I like and then trying to find out what it’s worth. I have no problem with finding coins I like but trying to place a market value has proven to be quite challenging. From what I found Heritage has only sold one environmental damaged details example years ago and eBay was not much help either. The few examples I’ve found all have issues and even when you find one straight graded it may not have an original look to it. So how do you value something like this? I found this one on eBay with bad scans and was able to negotiate and buy it for about $750. To me it seems so undervalued at this price point It’s hard to understand why there is not more demand . A large hunk of silver that is 400 years old. Has a very cool design and appears to be as original as possible. What’s not to like? Where is the demand? Did they fall out of favor at some point? I think the lack of pricing comps is a big negative and a hurdle that is preventing more people from dipping there toes into foreign. Thoughts?


Comments

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crusty said:
    I recently purchased this 1624 Wildman Thaler. It’s going into my (old large foreign silver) box of 20. I like the look and he fits in well with the other coins in the box so far. My approach has been to find a coin I like and then trying to find out what it’s worth. I have no problem with finding coins I like but trying to place a market value has proven to be quite challenging. From what I found Heritage has only sold one environmental damaged details example years ago and eBay was not much help either. The few examples I’ve found all have issues and even when you find one straight graded it may not have an original look to it. So how do you value something like this? I found this one on eBay with bad scans and was able to negotiate and buy it for about $750. To me it seems so undervalued at this price point It’s hard to understand why there is not more demand . A large hunk of silver that is 400 years old. Has a very cool design and appears to be as original as possible. What’s not to like? Where is the demand? Did they fall out of favor at some point? I think the lack of pricing comps is a big negative and a hurdle that is preventing more people from dipping there toes into foreign. Thoughts?


    I like the look as well on this coin !

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love these coins as well!

    You see a lot of these for sale on Ebay and elsewhere for crazy high prices. And, I agree with you that even many in slabs have been messed with.

    There are a lot of wildman for sale in the upcoming StacksBowers sales. Here's a couple mini wildmen:

    My current "Box of 20"

  • Wahoo554Wahoo554 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful example. I find the lack of readily accessible pricing and population data a big barrier to entry for foreign and ancient coins. We have it so easy with US coins. Sure seems like a good deal to me compared to US.

  • worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭

    @Crusty - Your brunswick taler has a nice look to it. I, too, was bitten by the taler bug many years ago. Pricing will always be an inexact science given low populations in plastic and infrequent appearances in auctions or on ebay, but there are sufficient resources out there to figure out the right ballpark if you do some quick digging. Perhaps the best guide is an old Krause (I use the German coins 1500-present) and use the prices as a rough benchmark for rarity with relation to other talers. Krause is worthless for mint state grades, but at least you can get a first read on it. The PCGS and NGC population reports are a good reference to understand the number of similar issues in plastic. To date, NGC has over 8,200 talers graded (includes multiple talers pre 1600 and 1600-1800). Assuming PCGS is at least half of NGC, I'm guessing the total pre-1800 taler population in plastic is over 12,000 total? A tiny drop in the bucket compared to other countries and series. Also recommend you setup a free user account on acsearch.info; you can get a sense of volume coming to auction over the last 15 years. Most European material is not graded, so this gives you a more well rounded idea of scarcity. I see that 19 examples of the 1624 DAV-6306 Brunswick taler have been sold since 2008.

  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @worldcoinguy - Excellent website and exactly what I am looking for. Thank you so much for sharing!

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2023 8:17PM

    Currently I’m in Vienna sightseeing

    The Hapsburg dynasty was over 600 years and the family itself was incestual .

    Maria Theresa had 16 children while running the country 40 years
    No twins or triplets

    Considered somewhat a savior:

    https://departments.kings.edu/womens_history/mariatheres.html#:~:text=The empress had a long,state solidified the Habsburg rule.

    Went to the:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schönbrunn_Palace

    The Hapsburg family was heavily incestual

    https://blog.23andme.com/articles/inbreeding-doomed-habsburg

    However this is not the case here:

    https://www.habsburger.net/en/chapter/empress-brazil

    Seems like the greatest leaders of the past in Europe

    Elizabeth
    Victoria
    Maria Theresa
    Wilhelmina

    I say women should rule !

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭

    @bidask - numismatics certainly brings history to life. Sounds like a great trip. A visit to Bavaria, Austria, and Switzerland is on my bucket list and my wife will have to suffer through some mint tours while we are at it. I recall some fascinating pictures posted by Zohar many years ago when he visited the mint in Tyrol.

  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m searching for a nice crusty Leo the hogmouth Thaler for my box. It will definitely be a good conversation piece when I pull the box out and show my US coin buddies….

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2023 8:40PM

    @worldcoinguy said:
    @bidask - numismatics certainly brings history to life. Sounds like a great trip. A visit to Bavaria, Austria, and Switzerland is on my bucket list and my wife will have to suffer through some mint tours while we are at it. I recall some fascinating pictures posted by Zohar many years ago when he visited the mint in Tyrol.

    If Zohar still has his collection of Thalers me thinks he understands the history as well .

    Very fascinating and historical !

    And I might add many of these coins undervalued imo.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We also visited the Guttieg Abbey

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göttweig_Abbey

    Somewhere within its walls over the course of centuries is a fantastic numismatic collection

    When I asked about this the guide was somewhat mum.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats! Wild Men are always popular. Yours has a terrific mustache!

    Mine is not a full thaler, but 2/3 of one.


    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • GallienusGallienus Posts: 29 ✭✭

    I tried to buy an early Wildman taler out of an auction about 2 years ago. It was in nice shape but had a little damage by the foot. Went to around $2,100. but still didn't get it. Now I know a Polish taler is 60 groschen. Is it the same for the German provinces at the time?

    What Stack's sale is it that has them?

    I collect Ancients and early Independence Era Latin American.
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