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Grading difference between factory full set and hobby box

I have a factory set that i've bought in 1991 ,and i noticed that the value of the set hasn't change that much over the last 30 years,
but the value of the best cards in the set has gone up. I was wondering if there's a difference between the cards that are in the set compared to the cards from a hobby box. Are thay cut the same way in the same production line as the cards from regular packs? Other thing that i noticed is that most if not all the cards in the set are well centered.

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  • CardGeekCardGeek Posts: 398 ✭✭✭

    What set is it? There isn't much from 1991 that has any real value.

  • I'm talking about OPC 1991-92 hockey. I'm looking on sportscardspro, the Wayne Gretzky #321 has been selling for around 100$ (psa 10) on ebay, but if i look at the price for a full set , it's going for less then 100$. Even if you get all the main cards as psa 9, it seems to be more then worth it. Am i missing something?

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, you are.
    10's are hard to get and when you factor in grading fees and ebay's 20% cut, it's a poor gamble.
    Let's say you get a 10 in the Gretzky, $20 to grade and another $20 in listing fees and other related selling costs is going to net you around $50-60. If you get a 9 (much more likely) you will probably lose money.
    The only other card I see selling is the Roy at $50.00 in a 10. What other cards are you thinking are going to make you any money?
    If you buy a box as opposed to a set, you have a chance of getting more than one Gretzky.
    If you get a set that has poor centering, you get nothing.
    It is fun going through the set and pulling the star cards out, and these sets are pretty cheap, but they are cheap for a reason.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • Lemieux,Belfour,Jagr,Federov. With a bulk submission you can get them verified before they are send to PSA for a couple of $ from what i understand. I'm talking about factory sealed set, not second hand set, so the cards have never been handled by anyone. I should have the same probability at getting 10s has if i buy a hobby box. For example, i bought a hobby box of OPC Premier 1991-92 and i pulled 2 Lidstrom, 1 Gretzky, 1 Lemieux , and only the Gretzky looks centered at first glance. So no card is worth getting graded unless you can get a decent amount for a psa 9 ? Why is it so hard to get a 10? The hardest thing to get is the centering ,no?

  • Thanks for your help Joe

  • RufussCkingstonRufussCkingston Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭✭

    @servoy said:
    With a bulk submission you can get them verified before they are send to PSA for a couple of $ from what i understand.

    What does this mean? Bulk submission (and pretty much anything PSA) is grading only, and verifying as authentic rather than number grade is the same cost.

    When you open a factory set the person or machine may have banged the corners (though prob rare), however the cards in the factory set are the same cards that go in packs (usually), and as such can be miscut/off center the same way, but worse it could be the whole set as they aren't randomized like a pack. They get chopped and then put in the box, so if that days chopping was all off, then the whole set could be that way, or atleast sections of it. You also have surface issues, sometimes the rollers that move the sheets onto the cutter or printer are too tight and leave marks. Packs can get corner damaged when stuffed in the pack or the box. If 10's were easy, everyone would get them.

    The set has no value as it isn't graded and is essentially a mystery box since the condition of the cards are not known. Just like buying ungraded 91/92 cards as ungraded singles on eBay, they sell for nothing, but if they are graded they sell for more if the grade warrants it. If ungraded was worth the same, then grading wouldn't be a thing.

  • burghmanburghman Posts: 804 ✭✭✭✭

    Take a look at https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/995191/i-love-the-1980s-the-ultimate-unopened-rip-quest-to-build-topps-fleer-donruss-psa-10-sets. He’s got a good eye for cards and rarely finds more than a handful of 10s in each box that he opens. Assuming 10s or even 9s probably isn’t going to pay off in the long run - I’ve seen some people here say that you should assume PSA 8 for fresh cards from that timeframe.

    Numerous reasons why 10s are hard - quality control back then sucked, so cards came out of packs and boxes uncentered, dinged, tilted, with surface/printing issues, etc. even before any damage from handling them.

    Grading to turn a profit is a cost/benefit analysis as Joe pointed out above. Many 9s from the 90s sell for less than it costs to ship, grade, and pay sales fees. Some sell for more - you have to do the math on a card by card basis to see if it’s worth it to you to grade it.

    Jim

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I used to buy and open 89UD Baseball, sealed, complete sets for about 2 to 3 years and it's a complete gamble. While I did hit on some PSA 10's that was before the pandemic when grading standards didn't seem so hard. That was also when the Griffey junior card was going for around $400. IMHO UD had better quality control then the other companies in 89, and in general grade better.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @servoy said:
    Thanks for your help Joe

    You're welcome, this sounds like a fun project, but don't get too excited about making a lot of money.
    First of all, are you talking about OPC or OPC Premier?
    OPC sets go for $30.00 or more when you consider shipping.
    OPC Premier apparently don't come in factory sets.
    I looked up all these guys under "sold items" on eBay and Jagr is the money card with Gretzky being the only other card worth grading. I was a big Modano fan and can't believe how little his rookie card goes for!
    Jagr prices seem VERY unusual, with some sales at $250.00. The majority of his cards seem to go for $75.00.
    PSA 10's are REALLY hard to get. Centering is a big problem, but print dots and bad registration often show up as well. I have even found damaged cards in factory sets.
    If you really want to do this, shipping is going to be a big cost. I would look for a seller who might have several sets and is willing to work with you on combining shipping. Buying 3 sets would increase your chances at getting a 10.
    Maybe a local shop has some of these so you don't have to pay shipping.
    Even if you pull a Jagr rookie and get a 10, you have about $60.00 invested, in the cost of the set, grading fees and eBay charges.
    I don't see anyone else (other than Gretzky) selling for enough to cover the grading costs.
    Living in Minnesota, I love hockey, but nobody else seems to buy hockey cards. Shipping to Canada can also be expensive.

    By the way, welcome to the group!

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • dontippetdontippet Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭✭

    And please remember, the average card right out of a box or pack will not average out as a PSA 9, let alone a 10.> @servoy said:

    Lemieux,Belfour,Jagr,Federov. With a bulk submission you can get them verified before they are send to PSA for a couple of $ from what i understand. I'm talking about factory sealed set, not second hand set, so the cards have never been handled by anyone. I should have the same probability at getting 10s has if i buy a hobby box. For example, i bought a hobby box of OPC Premier 1991-92 and i pulled 2 Lidstrom, 1 Gretzky, 1 Lemieux , and only the Gretzky looks centered at first glance. So no card is worth getting graded unless you can get a decent amount for a psa 9 ? Why is it so hard to get a 10? The hardest thing to get is the centering ,no?

    Centering is just one of the many aspects of grading. It's the most obvious to see to the naked eye, and the first thing to look at when thinking about grading a card. Once a card is centered good enough, then you need to examine it further. Corners are the next item. I believe the graders use a 10x loupe to look at corners. In my opinion, under 10x magnification, corners need to look near perfect for PSA 9 and perfect for PSA 10.

    Like was said earlier, I always say that you should assume that cards coming straight from the factory are PSA 8 condition.

    > [Click on this link to see my ebay listings.](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=61611&_sargn=-1&saslc=1&_salic=1&_fss=1&_fsradio=&LH_SpecificSeller=1&_saslop=1&_sasl=mygirlsthree3&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1)
    >

    Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
  • JolleyWrencherJolleyWrencher Posts: 605 ✭✭✭

    I submitted 3 cards directly from a 5 card Topps Now purchase and received 2 PSA9 grades and 1 PSA10.

  • @dontippet said:
    And please remember, the average card right out of a box or pack will not average out as a PSA 9, let alone a 10.> @servoy said:

    Lemieux,Belfour,Jagr,Federov. With a bulk submission you can get them verified before they are send to PSA for a couple of $ from what i understand. I'm talking about factory sealed set, not second hand set, so the cards have never been handled by anyone. I should have the same probability at getting 10s has if i buy a hobby box. For example, i bought a hobby box of OPC Premier 1991-92 and i pulled 2 Lidstrom, 1 Gretzky, 1 Lemieux , and only the Gretzky looks centered at first glance. So no card is worth getting graded unless you can get a decent amount for a psa 9 ? Why is it so hard to get a 10? The hardest thing to get is the centering ,no?

    Centering is just one of the many aspects of grading. It's the most obvious to see to the naked eye, and the first thing to look at when thinking about grading a card. Once a card is centered good enough, then you need to examine it further. Corners are the next item. I believe the graders use a 10x loupe to look at corners. In my opinion, under 10x magnification, corners need to look near perfect for PSA 9 and perfect for PSA 10.

    Like was said earlier, I always say that you should assume that cards coming straight from the factory are PSA 8 condition.

    Is there a way to work on the card to bring it to a psa 10 level?

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @servoy said:

    @dontippet said:
    And please remember, the average card right out of a box or pack will not average out as a PSA 9, let alone a 10.> @servoy said:

    Lemieux,Belfour,Jagr,Federov. With a bulk submission you can get them verified before they are send to PSA for a couple of $ from what i understand. I'm talking about factory sealed set, not second hand set, so the cards have never been handled by anyone. I should have the same probability at getting 10s has if i buy a hobby box. For example, i bought a hobby box of OPC Premier 1991-92 and i pulled 2 Lidstrom, 1 Gretzky, 1 Lemieux , and only the Gretzky looks centered at first glance. So no card is worth getting graded unless you can get a decent amount for a psa 9 ? Why is it so hard to get a 10? The hardest thing to get is the centering ,no?

    Centering is just one of the many aspects of grading. It's the most obvious to see to the naked eye, and the first thing to look at when thinking about grading a card. Once a card is centered good enough, then you need to examine it further. Corners are the next item. I believe the graders use a 10x loupe to look at corners. In my opinion, under 10x magnification, corners need to look near perfect for PSA 9 and perfect for PSA 10.

    Like was said earlier, I always say that you should assume that cards coming straight from the factory are PSA 8 condition.

    Is there a way to work on the card to bring it to a psa 10 level?

    Not really, while there are some technics, in general if a card has bad centering there is no helping it.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • RonSportscardsRonSportscards Posts: 792 ✭✭✭✭

    @Cakes said:

    @servoy said:

    @dontippet said:
    And please remember, the average card right out of a box or pack will not average out as a PSA 9, let alone a 10.> @servoy said:

    Lemieux,Belfour,Jagr,Federov. With a bulk submission you can get them verified before they are send to PSA for a couple of $ from what i understand. I'm talking about factory sealed set, not second hand set, so the cards have never been handled by anyone. I should have the same probability at getting 10s has if i buy a hobby box. For example, i bought a hobby box of OPC Premier 1991-92 and i pulled 2 Lidstrom, 1 Gretzky, 1 Lemieux , and only the Gretzky looks centered at first glance. So no card is worth getting graded unless you can get a decent amount for a psa 9 ? Why is it so hard to get a 10? The hardest thing to get is the centering ,no?

    Centering is just one of the many aspects of grading. It's the most obvious to see to the naked eye, and the first thing to look at when thinking about grading a card. Once a card is centered good enough, then you need to examine it further. Corners are the next item. I believe the graders use a 10x loupe to look at corners. In my opinion, under 10x magnification, corners need to look near perfect for PSA 9 and perfect for PSA 10.

    Like was said earlier, I always say that you should assume that cards coming straight from the factory are PSA 8 condition.

    Is there a way to work on the card to bring it to a psa 10 level?

    Not really, while there are some technics, in general if a card has bad centering there is no helping it.

    Cue the Evan link.

  • @Cakes said:

    @servoy said:

    @dontippet said:
    And please remember, the average card right out of a box or pack will not average out as a PSA 9, let alone a 10.> @servoy said:

    Lemieux,Belfour,Jagr,Federov. With a bulk submission you can get them verified before they are send to PSA for a couple of $ from what i understand. I'm talking about factory sealed set, not second hand set, so the cards have never been handled by anyone. I should have the same probability at getting 10s has if i buy a hobby box. For example, i bought a hobby box of OPC Premier 1991-92 and i pulled 2 Lidstrom, 1 Gretzky, 1 Lemieux , and only the Gretzky looks centered at first glance. So no card is worth getting graded unless you can get a decent amount for a psa 9 ? Why is it so hard to get a 10? The hardest thing to get is the centering ,no?

    Centering is just one of the many aspects of grading. It's the most obvious to see to the naked eye, and the first thing to look at when thinking about grading a card. Once a card is centered good enough, then you need to examine it further. Corners are the next item. I believe the graders use a 10x loupe to look at corners. In my opinion, under 10x magnification, corners need to look near perfect for PSA 9 and perfect for PSA 10.

    Like was said earlier, I always say that you should assume that cards coming straight from the factory are PSA 8 condition.

    Is there a way to work on the card to bring it to a psa 10 level?

    Not really, while there are some technics, in general if a card has bad centering there is no helping it.

    I was more talking about the other 3 dimensions of grading (corners,edges and face) . Of course , centering as to be there in the first place to look further.

  • @RonSportscards said:

    @Cakes said:

    @servoy said:

    @dontippet said:
    And please remember, the average card right out of a box or pack will not average out as a PSA 9, let alone a 10.> @servoy said:

    Lemieux,Belfour,Jagr,Federov. With a bulk submission you can get them verified before they are send to PSA for a couple of $ from what i understand. I'm talking about factory sealed set, not second hand set, so the cards have never been handled by anyone. I should have the same probability at getting 10s has if i buy a hobby box. For example, i bought a hobby box of OPC Premier 1991-92 and i pulled 2 Lidstrom, 1 Gretzky, 1 Lemieux , and only the Gretzky looks centered at first glance. So no card is worth getting graded unless you can get a decent amount for a psa 9 ? Why is it so hard to get a 10? The hardest thing to get is the centering ,no?

    Centering is just one of the many aspects of grading. It's the most obvious to see to the naked eye, and the first thing to look at when thinking about grading a card. Once a card is centered good enough, then you need to examine it further. Corners are the next item. I believe the graders use a 10x loupe to look at corners. In my opinion, under 10x magnification, corners need to look near perfect for PSA 9 and perfect for PSA 10.

    Like was said earlier, I always say that you should assume that cards coming straight from the factory are PSA 8 condition.

    Is there a way to work on the card to bring it to a psa 10 level?

    Not really, while there are some technics, in general if a card has bad centering there is no helping it.

    Cue the Evan link.

    What do you mean by Evan link?

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,208 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2023 5:15PM

    A few years ago, I bought wax boxes, vending boxes and a rack box of 1987 Topps. I ended up with around 16 complete sets worth of cards.
    The "big" card was the Bonds rookie. Not one was nicely centered, although I was lucky enough to get one PSA 9 of Barry.
    I got quite a few 10's including 3 Bo Jacksons.
    It's REALLY difficult to get PSA 10's.

    Edited to add; I was also looking for Kirby Puckett cards, as I collect him. Not one single Puckett card was even worth submitting.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • RufussCkingstonRufussCkingston Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2023 6:25PM

    @servoy said:

    Is there a way to work on the card to bring it to a psa 10 level?

    Absolutely. First get a roll of wax paper and a rolling pin. Lay out the wax paper on a flat surface and tape it down. Then put the subject card face down in the middle of the wax paper. Next take the rolling pin and start firmly rolling back and forth over the card. Gradually increase pressure, after roughly 100-200 rolls, the card should be flattened enough that it was grown slightly in size while also hopefully eliminating any surface blemishes.

    Now take the card and put it on a paper cutter and slightly cut the edges all four sides. This way you should have nice new sharp corners and edges.

  • dontippetdontippet Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭✭

    @JolleyWrencher said:
    I submitted 3 cards directly from a 5 card Topps Now purchase and received 2 PSA9 grades and 1 PSA10.

    The odds of getting a 10 are much, much better with newer cards. Quality wasn't nearly as good 30 years ago.

    > [Click on this link to see my ebay listings.](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=61611&_sargn=-1&saslc=1&_salic=1&_fss=1&_fsradio=&LH_SpecificSeller=1&_saslop=1&_sasl=mygirlsthree3&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1)
    >

    Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:
    A few years ago, I bought wax boxes, vending boxes and a rack box of 1987 Topps. I ended up with around 16 complete sets worth of cards.
    The "big" card was the Bonds rookie. Not one was nicely centered, although I was lucky enough to get one PSA 9 of Barry.
    I got quite a few 10's including 3 Bo Jacksons.
    It's REALLY difficult to get PSA 10's.

    Edited to add; I was also looking for Kirby Puckett cards, as I collect him. Not one single Puckett card was even worth submitting.

    If you look at Chris' @jordangretzkyfan thread, it's really hard to find anywhere near that many 10s in any set in the '80s. Of course he makes it a little harder on himself by wanting to submit the whole set at once, so he's looking for "no doubt" 10s and not borderline cards that have a chance at a 10. But he's looking for 10 level cards that almost all of us would ignore, like a 1987 Topps Ron Karkovice. It's really, really hard to find a key card in 10 from unopened.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @daltex said:

    @JoeBanzai said:
    A few years ago, I bought wax boxes, vending boxes and a rack box of 1987 Topps. I ended up with around 16 complete sets worth of cards.
    The "big" card was the Bonds rookie. Not one was nicely centered, although I was lucky enough to get one PSA 9 of Barry.
    I got quite a few 10's including 3 Bo Jacksons.
    It's REALLY difficult to get PSA 10's.

    Edited to add; I was also looking for Kirby Puckett cards, as I collect him. Not one single Puckett card was even worth submitting.

    If you look at Chris' @jordangretzkyfan thread, it's really hard to find anywhere near that many 10s in any set in the '80s. Of course he makes it a little harder on himself by wanting to submit the whole set at once, so he's looking for "no doubt" 10s and not borderline cards that have a chance at a 10. But he's looking for 10 level cards that almost all of us would ignore, like a 1987 Topps Ron Karkovice. It's really, really hard to find a key card in 10 from unopened.

    Agreed.
    On my 1987 Topps project, other than the Bo Jackson rookie, I got very few star/rookie cards in a10.
    My best results were about 10-15 commons that were the first 10's graded. These saved me from losing money. Grading fees (and eBay charges) really eat up any profit. I only paid $9 per card for grading at that time and bought the cards locally and cheap without having to pay shipping.
    I STILL have a bunch of perfectly centered 9's (low pop commons) that I couldn't sell on ebay and break even on.
    Nobody wants 9's!

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • @JoeBanzai said:

    @daltex said:

    @JoeBanzai said:
    A few years ago, I bought wax boxes, vending boxes and a rack box of 1987 Topps. I ended up with around 16 complete sets worth of cards.
    The "big" card was the Bonds rookie. Not one was nicely centered, although I was lucky enough to get one PSA 9 of Barry.
    I got quite a few 10's including 3 Bo Jacksons.
    It's REALLY difficult to get PSA 10's.

    Edited to add; I was also looking for Kirby Puckett cards, as I collect him. Not one single Puckett card was even worth submitting.

    If you look at Chris' @jordangretzkyfan thread, it's really hard to find anywhere near that many 10s in any set in the '80s. Of course he makes it a little harder on himself by wanting to submit the whole set at once, so he's looking for "no doubt" 10s and not borderline cards that have a chance at a 10. But he's looking for 10 level cards that almost all of us would ignore, like a 1987 Topps Ron Karkovice. It's really, really hard to find a key card in 10 from unopened.

    Agreed.
    On my 1987 Topps project, other than the Bo Jackson rookie, I got very few star/rookie cards in a10.
    My best results were about 10-15 commons that were the first 10's graded. These saved me from losing money. Grading fees (and eBay charges) really eat up any profit. I only paid $9 per card for grading at that time and bought the cards locally and cheap without having to pay shipping.
    I STILL have a bunch of perfectly centered 9's (low pop commons) that I couldn't sell on ebay and break even on.
    Nobody wants 9's!

    I wouldn't mind looking at them to get some off your hands. I would also be interested in some 8 that are well centered and only have a dent or 2 on the face,corner or border. My son is a baseball player and he likes collecting old cards, he 's not looking for perfection, but for a nice looking cards for his albums. For myself i'm more into hockey cards from the 70-80, like the Roy,Lemieux,Gretzky,Yzerman,Hull,... They are also hard to find in PSA 10 because of the way they were cutting the cards then.

  • AANVAANV Posts: 329 ✭✭✭

    Honestly, in my many years of experience, rarely does anyone come out ahead when the only positive value proposition is hitting 10s.

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AANV said:
    Honestly, in my many years of experience, rarely does anyone come out ahead when the only positive value proposition is hitting 10s.

    I agree 100%, especially in the current market. 5 to 10 years ago when you could get a better deal doing bulk and with more lenient grading standards it might have been.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • Does anybody know what's the shiny protective layer on the face of most cards made of?

  • RufussCkingstonRufussCkingston Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭✭

    @servoy said:
    Does anybody know what's the shiny protective layer on the face of most cards made of?

    Depends on the year and set......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coated_paper

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