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I am confused !

I am looking at recent BEP data, and some partial printings of star notes are in the 50 subject 500,000 note format, while other star note printings are in the 32 subject 640,000 note format.

What is going on ????

Are they printing 50 subject notes in 640,000 note format ?

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    sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,482 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't know. Doesn't make sense that 50 subject sheets and 640,000 press runs go together.

    Any small size guys here care to take a guess?

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
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    Steve_in_TampaSteve_in_Tampa Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe they are still using both COPE and LEPE overprinting equipment.

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    @Steve_in_Tampa said:
    I believe they are still using both COPE and LEPE overprinting equipment.

    Series 2021 $1 A star shows a 640K printing.

    $1's switched to 50 subject in November of 2013.

    The last 32 subject was series 2009 FP in October of 2014. All 09's were 32 subject, and the 13's were 50 subject.

    $10's and above are still 32.

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    synchrsynchr Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭✭

    I heard there is so much demand for printed notes that the commemorative series have been postponed because they are time consuming short runs.

    Could the demand be so high that they are reviving old printing presses to help meet the need?
    You may have made a significant series, perhaps short run

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    I doubt that they can revive old presses for 2013 to 2021 $1's.

    These are 50 subject sheets.

    I may have found an answer. It looks like the BEP is printing goofy run sizes to get 640,000 formats.

    Look at that run size on the $5 at FW

    https://www.bep.gov/sites/default/files/documents/8- May FY22 End of the Month Report 6-5-22.pdf

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    On a side note, the BEP goofed up (for now) with the BEP reports.

    The June 2023 report is a duplicate of June 2022.

    Hopefully this is fixed soon.

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    JamericonJamericon Posts: 437 ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2023 2:01PM

    I agree with Steve, that the BEP appears to be switching between 32- and 50-subject sheets, even in the same denomination.

    In the May report, the two $5 regular runs were four standard 200,000-sheet runs using 32-subject sheets. The star run was 640,000 notes, or 12,800 fifty-subject sheets.

    Jamie Yakes - U.S. paper money collector, researcher, and author. | Join the SPMCUS Small-Size Notes, National Bank Notes, and NJ Depression Scrip
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    They are not supposed to.

    This would be the same thing as if they printed 1957 $1 SC's on 18 and 32 subject notes.

    Yet 2017 got changed to 2017A because of reformulation of inks.

    This may take a FOIA to figure out unfortunately. :/

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    One tell tale will be if these notes have A5 to J5 plate positions, and positions in the I and J for the other numbers, and if the sizing of the PP is consistent with 50 subject.

    Perhaps they are having issues with 50 subject presses ?

    But until recently, they have run strong since 2013.

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    Steve_in_TampaSteve_in_Tampa Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For reference, COPE (Currency Overprinting and Processing Equipment) overprinting machines print 32-subject sheets and LEPE (Large Examining and Printing Equipment) overprinting machines can print on both 32 and 50 subject sheets. This image illustrates the easy way to tell which sheet the note came from.

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    JamericonJamericon Posts: 437 ✭✭✭

    "They are not supposed to." Says who? They did, so that throws your assumption overboard.

    "This would be the same thing as if they printed 1957 $1 SC's on 18 and 32 subject notes." Yet they printed 1935Gs on 12-subject and 18-subject sheets.

    The January data show it for $1 New York stars, Series 2021:
    First run: serials 1-500000 on ten thousand 50-subject sheets.
    Second run: serials 3200001-64000000 on one hundred thousand 32-subject sheets.

    The BEP will do what it needs to meet production orders. They'll surprise you.

    Jamie Yakes - U.S. paper money collector, researcher, and author. | Join the SPMCUS Small-Size Notes, National Bank Notes, and NJ Depression Scrip
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    JamericonJamericon Posts: 437 ✭✭✭

    Does anyone have a key that defines the letters after the series (such as "Series 2021S")?

    Jamie Yakes - U.S. paper money collector, researcher, and author. | Join the SPMCUS Small-Size Notes, National Bank Notes, and NJ Depression Scrip
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    Steve_in_TampaSteve_in_Tampa Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes. The letter “S” follows notes printed on standard security paper, like $1s and $2s and the letter “G” follows notes printed on colorized security paper, like $5s, $10s, $20s, $50s and $100s.

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    sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,482 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So we have two distinct types with different or the same size plate letters and numbers (plate position) for 2021 $1 NY stars, one from 32 subject sheets and the other from 50 subject ones? And it looks like the older style (32 subject diff letter and number size) is the more common, while the newer same size number and letter for plate position will be the scarcer.

    How about other denominations? I'm presuming that 32 and 50 subject sheets were printed for other districts for $1s. Can 50 subject sheets be printed on the colorized paper too? And we are only talking about stars?

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
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    Okay, this is a good way to figure this mess out:

    Here are some star ranges in 640,000 format.

    $1 2017A

    L03200001* to L03840000*
    F03200001* to F03840000*
    B03200001* to B03840000*

    2021
    A1* to A00640000*
    G03200001* to G03840000*
    G06400001* to G07040000*

    Let's see what eBay can reveal .

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    redseal53redseal53 Posts: 26
    edited July 16, 2023 11:19AM

    Okay, that was easier than expected.

    I am willing to bet every dollar I've got that these 640,000 format numberings are on 50 subject sheets.

    The below pic is proof. Notice PP is H5 ! 32 subject notes do not have a 5th quadrant, only A1 to A4, through H1 to H4.

    Now how what is the number of 50 subject sheets to get 640,000 notes ?? :/

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    @sellitstore said:
    So we have two distinct types with different or the same size plate letters and numbers (plate position) for 2021 $1 NY stars, one from 32 subject sheets and the other from 50 subject ones? And it looks like the older style (32 subject diff letter and number size) is the more common, while the newer same size number and letter for plate position will be the scarcer.

    How about other denominations? I'm presuming that 32 and 50 subject sheets were printed for other districts for $1s. Can 50 subject sheets be printed on the colorized paper too? And we are only talking about stars?

    All $1's and $5's are 50 subject.

    There are two fonts on PP's of 2017A. Some have enlarged numbers (like the 2006 to present $20 SOI notes).

    I also found some 2017A $1 stars in 640K printings, with I and J plate numbers.

    Again, how and why ??

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    redseal53redseal53 Posts: 26
    edited July 16, 2023 11:30AM

    @Jamericon said:
    Does anyone have a key that defines the letters after the series (such as "Series 2021S")?

    As Steve said: S= old style
    G= Next Gen (2004 to present colorized).
    On older BEP reports: N= New Currency Design (aka big head).

    Has any 2017A $2 B stars surfaced ? Looks like only 32,000 printed !! <3

    That is the lowest printing of a $2 star since 1928E !!!!

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    JamericonJamericon Posts: 437 ✭✭✭

    12,800

    It's listed on the BEP's reports.

    Jamie Yakes - U.S. paper money collector, researcher, and author. | Join the SPMCUS Small-Size Notes, National Bank Notes, and NJ Depression Scrip
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    Thanks Jamie

    Silly me.

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