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Daily Mail: "Dealer of the 'world's most expensive coin'....is charged with grand larceny in NYC.

Dealer of the 'world's most expensive coin' which 'fraudulently sold' for a record $4.1M after its ownership records 'were falsified' is charged with grand larceny in NYC

By Noa Halff For Dailymail.Com



An Italian coin dealer was arraigned in Manhattan on Wednesday for possession of stolen coins worth one million dollars - after one he gave to his colleague sold for $4.1million.

Italo Vecchi was charged with one count of grand larceny in the first degree, two counts of conspiracy in the fourth degree and second degree criminal possession of stolen property, among other charges.

The 75-year-old worked with British coin dealer Richard Beale, who was charged in March over the fraudulent $4.1 million sale of the 'rarest and most valuable' coin in the world.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12224073/Dealer-worlds-expensive-coin-sold-4-1M-charged-grand-larceny-NYC.html

Comments

  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 731 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm biased, but I don't see a serious crime here

  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 731 ✭✭✭✭

    query for all the securities lawyers on the forum: If this case leads to the forfeiture of coins or something expensive, which triggers the bankruptcy of Roma Numismatics, where would bidders in their next auction fall on the spectrum of priority?

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,815 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2023 1:41PM

    According to the article, "The complaint states that Beale 'sold these freshly looted coins through Roma Numismatics with the false provenance 'from a private Canadian collection''."

    Would that provenance really be considered enough to establish that the coin was not looted or found in recent years? And if not, did the purported provenance actually add value?

    I'm glad I don't deal in ancients.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • 1984worldcoins1984worldcoins Posts: 594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some of the ancients sold lately look like brand new, just saying.

    Coinsof1984@martinb6830 on twitter

  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    “Freshly looted” is an interesting phrase. I wonder which entity is purported to actually own these coins?

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How in the world do they prove the coin stolen? I don't see how even if documents were forged that it has been proven. If someone were to GIVE me a coin or even sell it to me and I buy it, how would I be guilty of stealing? It might be illegal to hold and subject to confiscation I suppose but I just don't see it.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • John ConduittJohn Conduitt Posts: 346 ✭✭✭

    @Bailathacl said:
    presumptively illegally exported from its original discovery site.

    This is important, especially for coins. You have to know where is was discovered. You can't just say, that's a Roman coin, send it back to Italy. Ancient coins are found all over Europe regardless of mint. Apparently, they know where the Eid Mar was found.

    So even if a country wanted to go after all the cheap coins, they'd have to show they were found in their country.

  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 731 ✭✭✭✭

    @John Conduitt said:

    @Bailathacl said:
    presumptively illegally exported from its original discovery site.

    This is important, especially for coins. You have to know where is was discovered. You can't just say, that's a Roman coin, send it back to Italy. Ancient coins are found all over Europe regardless of mint. Apparently, they know where the Eid Mar was found.

    So even if a country wanted to go after all the cheap coins, they'd have to show they were found in their country.

    you gotta imagine that without provenance the coins are assumed to be war loot from all the recent wars, personally, I don't mind coins and antiques coming out of a war zone where they'd just be destroyed

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And how they basically came into being (well this coin) as well....

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • I thought that was Bernie Madoff when I first saw his picture. Would have been typical of the Daily Fail to mess up like that…….

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would not have a coin budget if I bought a suit like that...

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • Throw the book at both of them. First this kind of thing is blatant fraud. Second these types of black money deals are how money laundering is able to thrive. Third both of these two knew better than to do what they did. Fourth the rules behind the providence reporting exist for this exact reason. and finally, if my coins had been stolen and some greasy coin dealer assisted in any way in harboring/selling/fraudulently reporting/ posessing my coins I would want them publically flogged.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    $4.1 million is not the "world's most expensive coin." It's #15 on this list.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • John ConduittJohn Conduitt Posts: 346 ✭✭✭

    @sellitstore said:
    $4.1 million is not the "world's most expensive coin." It's #15 on this list.

    It used to be the most expensive ancient coin (as in the later line 'the highest price ever paid for an ancient coin at auction'), but it's not even that anymore. It's definitely not the 'rarest coin' either. There are plenty of those, some selling for a 100,000th of the price.

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