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PROTOCOL FOR RECOVERING STOLEN COINS

18 years ago, I had several PCGS Morgans (and gold and some circ stuff) stolen. These coins were traced back to a pawn shop in Glendale, Ca. and he still had a few of them left and the police were able to recover them. I was actually able to recover many of them because they were in my Registry set. The coins that were NOT recovered, I left them in my Registry set because many of them were very high-end coins (Including an 1879-S MS68 OGH) I figured they would turn up at some point. Over the years, I have been able to recover some of them after being notified by PCGS that someone was attempting to add one of my coins to their sets. I've never had any problems getting them back, until now. I received a notice that a coin from my set was being entered into another set so I contacted the detective handling my case and he reached out to PCGS to get the contact info from the person with my Morgan. The detective advised him that the coin had been stolen and he wanted to make arrangements to have it returned to me. This individual refused, even though he knows that he is in possession of stolen property. I can get a court order to have the coin returned, but I was trying to do this without having to use my attorney. I feel bad for this person, but the dealer he bought if from is insured for just this type of event. He said he likes the coin and it's his now. I honestly feel for this guy, but it's MY coin. Am I being unreasonable asking for my stolen property to be returned? Suggestions, advice, feedback welcome.

Craig Frick - The Frick Collection....

Comments

  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You are not being unreasonable at all. The person who currently has possession of the coin (note; I did not write that they are the owner) is being unreasonable. Get the court order if you need it and I hope it doesn't "disappear" while in their possession.

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  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2023 2:35PM

    I don't understand why the detective handing your case just doesn't take the coin.
    If the person that has the coin doesn't want to release the coin then have the detective arrest him for holding stolen property.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Above is correct. Your detective should just be able to notify the jurisdiction where the stolen item is located, to seize it as recovered stolen property. It's really not open for discussion. And, your attorney is the States Attorney or DA where you reside. Your detective should be using this attorney to draw up the appropriate legal complaint or warrant. Good luck. Peace Roy

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  • Tom147Tom147 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unreasonable ? Wanting your stolen property back ? Absolutely not. The individual possessing the coin now is the unreasonable one. AND in violation of the law " possession of stolen property "

  • FrickFrick Posts: 72 ✭✭✭

    The detective can’t just take the coin because it’s located in another state and there are jurisdictional issues. It requires getting a court order in the local jurisdiction and then having the local police department seize the stolen property. As far as the coin “disappearing”, the courts would find the person in contempt and either fine or arrest the person or both. It’s a really nice coin, but definitely not the most expensive one that was stolen. Probably less than $1500.

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2023 3:11PM

    And while we're at it, go back and arrest the dealer for "selling" stolen property.
    Book'em Dano

  • FrickFrick Posts: 72 ✭✭✭

    I’m sure the person that sold it to him did not know that it was stolen and I’m reasonably certain this buyer did not know that it was stolen. But I guarantee you, he knows now. And he knows that he is in possession of stolen property.

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is your coin. The theft of the coin does not deprive you of your ownership rights.

    The coin is "your property".

    The theft of the coin is an event that is legally considered "void" [i.e. as if the theft from you never happened]; as opposed to "voidable" [i.e. the taking of the coin away from you is presumed to be valid unless and until you take action to obtain a court determination that the coin is your property].

    In void transactions (i.e. theft), down stream transactions, including sales and purchases, are viewed as never having happened. Thus even if the current possessor of the coin paid $10,000.00 to purchase the coin, in good faith and without any notice of the coin being stolen, he/she loses. You get your property back and the current possessor would be entitled to seek and obtain restitution of his/her purchase price from the person who sold the coin to him/her. That person could do the same up the chain until you get to the person who stole the coin. That person should be charged, tried and convicted of theft.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I remember a few years ago I bought a $400 coin on eBay to put in my registry. The cert was not valid and as I went through the process of getting database corrected, PCGS customer service told me that it had been reported 'stolen' and should be returned to where I had purchased it for refund. I did and got my money back. I am not sure how many transactions had taken place after theft.

    If I bought a coin for a couple grand, I would not want to just hand it over to someone saying it was stolen without refund ....

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:

    If I bought a coin for a couple grand, I would not want to just hand it over to someone saying it was stolen without refund ....

    If the court agrees with the OP you have no choice but to hand it over.
    I understand where you're coming from but it's still a stolen coin and belongs to someone else

  • FrickFrick Posts: 72 ✭✭✭

    The buyer of the stolen coin has recourse from the dealer he bought it from. And I'm not "just saying" it was stolen, I have a police report that was filed and had the coin in my Registry set. I have proof of ownership. You can't just keep stolen property because you paid for it, that's not how the law works. And I'm disappointed that's it's in another members Registry set and he refuses to do the right thing. I feel bad that he's in this position, but right is right....

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2023 10:43AM

    What going on with this now?
    How was he/she able to register the coin?

  • I'd file a police report about the illegal possession of stolen goods going on. If there is a criminal conviction it will be very easy to use that conviction to sue the person possessinng your stolen goods.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Frick said:
    The buyer of the stolen coin has recourse from the dealer he bought it from. And I'm not "just saying" it was stolen, I have a police report that was filed and had the coin in my Registry set. I have proof of ownership. You can't just keep stolen property because you paid for it, that's not how the law works. And I'm disappointed that's it's in another members Registry set and he refuses to do the right thing. I feel bad that he's in this position, but right is right....

    You have to tell us what's going on with this situation so we can help you
    I for one am very interested because it seems law inforcement doesn't seem to be helping you at all.

  • FrickFrick Posts: 72 ✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:
    What going on with this now?
    How was he/she able to register the coin> @alaura22 said:
    What going on with this now?
    How was he/she able to register the coin?

    When someone registers a coin that is already in a Registry set, an email is sent to the person who has it in their set. They can take no action or notify PCGS that the coin is stolen. However, PCGS will take no action (not that I expect them to) Unfortunately, I didn't see the email until the time had already passed (I think they give you 5-10 days)
    Current status: my attorney is working on it....

  • FrickFrick Posts: 72 ✭✭✭

    @RiveraFamilyCollect said:
    I'd file a police report about the illegal possession of stolen goods going on. If there is a criminal conviction it will be very easy to use that conviction to sue the person possessinng your stolen goods.

    My attorney is handling this. I will update when I get some info....

  • FrickFrick Posts: 72 ✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:
    And while we're at it, go back and arrest the dealer for "selling" stolen property.
    Book'em Dano

    I have no way of knowing if the person who sold this was aware that it was stolen. But the person who has it now
    knows that he is in possession of stolen property. I tried to be nice, now my attorney and the police will handle it.
    He's gonna hate it when they show up with a search warrant....

  • Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any update?

  • FrickFrick Posts: 72 ✭✭✭

    @Herb_T said:
    Any update> @Herb_T said:
    Any update?

    Just waiting to hear back from the detective....

  • skamienieckiskamieniecki Posts: 77 ✭✭✭

    I would really dislike anything being stolen from us including our coins. What is the groups opinion between home safe and safe deposit boxes for storage?

  • Home safe makes sense until your hoard reaches a cetain $ amount.
    Just be sure to install the safe with a bolt so no one can walk off with it.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • Craig -- The police department that investigated the theft should pursue getting your coin back...That's part of their responsibilities in dealing with crimes...Call the investigator and if he says he has done all he can...Seek out his supervisor, and explain the situation to him, without letting the investigator know.

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