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A thing of pure beauty @thisistheshow

doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

I know you love boxing @thisistheshow, this fight always reminds me why boxing is my favorite sport of all-time, Julio Cesar Chavez vs Edwin "Chapo" Rosario, 1987. On this night, Chavez was moving up in weight to face the feared monster puncher Rosario, and this fight demonstrates why the sport is called the sweet science. Edwin Rosario was feared as one of the hardest punchers in boxing history, his punches changed guys careers, he had some terrifying knockouts leading up to this fight, and a lot of people thought Rosario would knock Chavez out, but showing no fear of Rosario's monster power, Chavez proceeds to methodically stalk Rosario down, apply pressure, stay in his chest, pin him against the ropes and systematically dismantle him, not giving Rosario room to breathe and get off his monster punches. Executing his gameplan with brilliance, he lays quite a beating on Rosario. As the rounds pass, Chavez's combinations to the body and face begin to take their toll on Rosario, and the towel is thrown in by Rosario's corner, an absolute masterclass of the technical side of boxing from Chavez, the sweet science at it's finest, here are the highlights from this masterpiece performance by Julio Cesar Chavez. By the way, Chavez is in the Red trunks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GS594Qo2oHI

Comments

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you say that this is your favorite, I thank you for posting and I will reply further when ready. 👊 💪

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:
    If you say that this is your favorite, I thank you for posting and I will reply further when ready. 👊 💪

    One of my favorites, I haven't yet decided if it's my absolute favorite. 🤔

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:

    @thisistheshow said:
    If you say that this is your favorite, I thank you for posting and I will reply further when ready. 👊 💪

    One of my favorites, I haven't yet decided if it's my absolute favorite. 🤔

    ......
    Favorite vs best has overlap and nuance which can be debated but need not be tumultuous.

    My favorite is The War ...(which was billed as The Fight )

    Is it the best fight I've ever seen?

    Well, it's my favorite...

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:

    @doubledragon said:

    @thisistheshow said:
    If you say that this is your favorite, I thank you for posting and I will reply further when ready. 👊 💪

    One of my favorites, I haven't yet decided if it's my absolute favorite. 🤔

    ......
    Favorite vs best has overlap and nuance which can be debated but need not be tumultuous.

    My favorite is The War ...(which was billed as The Fight )

    Is it the best fight I've ever seen?

    Well, it's my favorite...

    Hagler vs Hearns is also one of my all-time favorites. Stop it, you're getting me excited, I'm not supposed to get excited before bed time!

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:

    @thisistheshow said:

    @doubledragon said:

    @thisistheshow said:
    If you say that this is your favorite, I thank you for posting and I will reply further when ready. 👊 💪

    One of my favorites, I haven't yet decided if it's my absolute favorite. 🤔

    ......
    Favorite vs best has overlap and nuance which can be debated but need not be tumultuous.

    My favorite is The War ...(which was billed as The Fight )

    Is it the best fight I've ever seen?

    Well, it's my favorite...

    Hagler vs Hearns is also one of my all-time favorites. Stop it, you're getting me excited, I'm not supposed to get excited before bed time!

    .....
    Why not?

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:

    @doubledragon said:

    @thisistheshow said:

    @doubledragon said:

    @thisistheshow said:
    If you say that this is your favorite, I thank you for posting and I will reply further when ready. 👊 💪

    One of my favorites, I haven't yet decided if it's my absolute favorite. 🤔

    ......
    Favorite vs best has overlap and nuance which can be debated but need not be tumultuous.

    My favorite is The War ...(which was billed as The Fight )

    Is it the best fight I've ever seen?

    Well, it's my favorite...

    Hagler vs Hearns is also one of my all-time favorites. Stop it, you're getting me excited, I'm not supposed to get excited before bed time!

    .....
    Why not?

    Because I'll never be able to get to sleep if I'm all wound up!

  • HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2023 6:54PM

    Boxing is O.K.,......My lifelong best friends father was a boxer....
    He was always teaching us how to fight.....

    Came in real handy a few times.......
    The main thing he always stressed was......
    "It doesn't hurt when they hit you.....just....HIT 'EM BACK...HARDER!"

    BUT,...Modern boxing is so watered down from the original thing.
    I prefer this.....

    WHAT A RUSH!!!!

    AND THE CHEERLEADERS WERE HOT!!!

    SMOKIN' HOT!!!!

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Hydrant said:
    Boxing is O.K.,......My lifelong best friends father was a boxer....
    He was always teaching us how to fight.....

    Came in real handy a few times.......
    The main thing he always stressed was......
    "It doesn't hurt when they hit you.....just....HIT 'EM BACK...HARDER!"

    BUT,...Modern boxing is so watered down from the original thing.
    I prefer this.....

    WHAT A RUSH!!!!

    AND THE CHEERLEADERS WERE HOT!!!

    SMOKIN' HOT!!!!

    ........
    For some reason you make me think of this, by Charles Bukowski...

    Style is the answer to everything.
    A fresh way to approach a dull or dangerous thing
    To do a dull thing with style is preferable to doing a dangerous thing without it
    To do a dangerous thing with style is what I call art

    Bullfighting can be an art
    Boxing can be an art
    Loving can be an art
    Opening a can of sardines can be an art

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:

    @Hydrant said:
    Boxing is O.K.,......My lifelong best friends father was a boxer....
    He was always teaching us how to fight.....

    Came in real handy a few times.......
    The main thing he always stressed was......
    "It doesn't hurt when they hit you.....just....HIT 'EM BACK...HARDER!"

    BUT,...Modern boxing is so watered down from the original thing.
    I prefer this.....

    WHAT A RUSH!!!!

    AND THE CHEERLEADERS WERE HOT!!!

    SMOKIN' HOT!!!!

    ........
    For some reason you make me think of this, by Charles Bukowski...

    Style is the answer to everything.
    A fresh way to approach a dull or dangerous thing
    To do a dull thing with style is preferable to doing a dangerous thing without it
    To do a dangerous thing with style is what I call art

    Bullfighting can be an art
    Boxing can be an art
    Loving can be an art
    Opening a can of Campbell's Cream of Whoop-Ass Soup can be an art

    Beautiful poem pertaining to boxing, by the way, I fixed that last line for you.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anyway, Julio Cesar Chavez was a beast, he started off his career going 89-0 before he was finally handed a loss in 1994 by Frankie Randall.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Chavez is one of my all-time favorites, he had an anvil for a chin, loved to work the body, you can hear the thud of his vicious shots to the liver in the Rosario fight, he loved to cut off the ring, apply pressure and trap his prey, and pound away at his opponents with brutal combinations, a thing of beauty.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon I watched the video you linked. I'd like to watch more. Chavez fight with a significant amount of "forward pressure", and I am going to assume this is one of the main things that made him so successful. Was it, in your opinion?
    A big part of the art of boxing is how you handle the movement of your opponent, and find ways to mitigate their attack. A fighter who puts that constant forward pressure on, particularly if they can stay close without allowing the other man to grab and clinch, will have a huge upper hand.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2023 12:21PM

    Here's the first video that comes up on his style. Has over one million views, so might be good. About 9 minutes. Ill watch it now. https://youtu.be/pjt-ShuLNQQ

    ETA: great video, worth watching goes into detail about the different elements of his style (see style and art, now the poem makes sense, lol). What stood out to me? Thanks for asking. His posture, fighting almost square to his opponent.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow, Julio Cesar Chavez was a master at his craft, so many layers to his game, he could pressure you or he could fight off the ropes, move side to side, and just overall, fight differently to the body punching, walk-forward fighter that he often gets painted as today.
    I really enjoyed the Rosario fight, the way he smothered Rosario, took away his strengths and beat him up. I also love Chavez's tenacity, he was tough as nails and if you couldn't stop him, chances are he would stop you. He could adapt to different styles very well, and he was very clever, take the Jose Luis Ramirez fight for instance, the way he changes his style subtlety, to incorporate tools better used vs a southpaw, is masterful. The short, calculated side steps to obtain lead-foot dominance were brilliant, and he set up his straight right (which he just couldn't miss with) and his left hook beautifully. Like I said, many layers to his game, a brilliant fighter. Also, the first Meldrick Taylor fight, Taylor had ridiculous handspeed and landed some 450 punches on Chavez, but Chavez was just too tough for Taylor, and while Chavez landed less, his punches were just more brutal and Taylor took quite a beating. I do think Chavez hung around a bit too long and started to decline, but in his prime he was an animal, one of my all-time favorites.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's interesting, a while back Julio Cesar Chavez said the night he beat Edwin Rosario, he could've beaten Teofimo Lopez and Vasyl Lomachenko on the SAME night that night, I don't doubt that, he was that tough and that great.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm going to do some reading on the Chavez Taylor Thunder Meets Lightning fight.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon that fight was the end of Meldrick Taylor, in a way, as a boxer, but more importantly, it maybe is the catalyst for what happened to him after. I've read a bit about what the doctor said regarding his examination of Taylor post fight, and also how he was cognitively. Not good, and things were set in motion sadly.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:
    @doubledragon that fight was the end of Meldrick Taylor, in a way, as a boxer, but more importantly, it maybe is the catalyst for what happened to him after. I've read a bit about what the doctor said regarding his examination of Taylor post fight, and also how he was cognitively. Not good, and things were set in motion sadly.

    Taylor was landing a lot more on Chavez, the punch count was 708-372, I originally thought he landed around 450 more punches, but I double checked and it was a bit less, but it just wasn't effective as far as damage goes, Chavez was a hard puncher, he threw his shots with extreme force and it really took it's toll on Taylor. It's the damnest fight you'll ever see, Taylor was outboxing Chavez and up on the scorecards when Chavez knocked him down in the 12th with seconds to go in the fight, as I recall Taylor got up around the count of 6 I believe, and referee Richard Steele asked him twice if he was OK and got no response, so he stopped the fight, giving Chavez the win. The fight won 1990 fight of the year honors and is shrouded in controversy because there was only seconds to go in the fight, barely enough time for an exchange of punches when Steele stopped it. A lot of people believe Steele should have let Taylor continue since he was up on the scorecards and had showed so much heart. I haven't watched the fight in a long time so my memory could be off a bit but I believe that's how it played out. That fight definately took a lot out of Taylor, and I don't believe he was ever quite the same afterwards, Chavez and Taylor would fight again in 1994 but Chavez won by TKO in the 8th. It's a shame for Meldrick Taylor, I loved watching him fight as well, he was fast as lightening and beautiful to watch, boxing is a brutal sport and that is one of the sides of it that I don't enjoy.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2023 5:59PM

    I remember the announcers of the Taylor vs Chavez fight were in shock that Richard Steele waved the fight off and said something to the effect of "that's one of the strangest endings you'll ever see", meaning that the referee called the fight off and didn't give Taylor a chance to finish those final seconds and win it on the scorecards which he would have. Afterwards, I think referee Richard Steele said something about he stopped it out of compassion because Taylor's face was such a mess, he had blood on his trunks and had taken a bad beating. I'm torn both ways on this, I can see how you could give Taylor the chance to continue those last seconds and win it out, but I can also see how you would wave it off because if it had continued for the last few seconds, Chavez probably would have gotten in another vicious shot and done even more serious damage. If I were the referee for that fight, I honestly probably would have waved ut off as well, I couldn't live with the thought of Taylor getting caught by another Chavez bomb and suffering even more damage. It would have been a gamble to let it continue for a few more seconds knowing that Chavez was going for the KO all the way, and Taylor's health is not something I would gamble with.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Honestly, it's not Richard Steele's job to know how much time is left on the clock or to know that Taylor is up on the scorecards, it's his job to protect the fighter, and he had watched Taylor take a bad beating and took a good look at Taylor and determined that he'd had enough, I think Steele made the right decision to stop it.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Regardless of the outcome, Taylor showed a tremendous amount of heart, and he came within seconds of being the first man to hand Chavez a loss, you got to give Taylor credit and take your hat off to him, he is a true warrior.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I understand the controversy, and this evening I read a few things regarding it. I think it is possible that Steele stopped it for nefarious reasons, but also theoretically saved Taylor from possibly even more punishment. Supposedly Taylor was urinating straight blood after the fight and had to be in the hospital for awhile.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:
    I understand the controversy, and this evening I read a few things regarding it. I think it is possible that Steele stopped it for nefarious reasons, but also theoretically saved Taylor from possibly even more punishment. Supposedly Taylor was urinating straight blood after the fight and had to be in the hospital for awhile.

    Steele is a controversial figure himself, but I do believe he made the right decision in this case. The question ultimately comes down to, could Chavez had caught Taylor with one more brutal shot in those final seconds, we'll never know, and that's probably a good thing, because Chavez knew he needed the KO to win. It's a crazy fight because Taylor came within seconds of being the first man to hand Chavez a loss, one of the most insane fights I've ever seen.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:

    @thisistheshow said:
    I understand the controversy, and this evening I read a few things regarding it. I think it is possible that Steele stopped it for nefarious reasons, but also theoretically saved Taylor from possibly even more punishment. Supposedly Taylor was urinating straight blood after the fight and had to be in the hospital for awhile.

    Steele is a controversial figure himself, but I do believe he made the right decision in this case. The question ultimately comes down to, could Chavez had caught Taylor with one more brutal shot in those final seconds, we'll never know, and that's probably a good thing, because Chavez knew he needed the KO to win. It's a crazy fight because Taylor came within seconds of being the first man to hand Chavez a loss, one of the most insane fights I've ever seen.

    ...
    In reading about it, I also read that whoever was in Taylor's corner told him that he needed to win the last round. So Taylor seemed to box in a more aggressive than necessary way, when all he really needed to do was stay upright.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:

    @doubledragon said:

    @thisistheshow said:
    I understand the controversy, and this evening I read a few things regarding it. I think it is possible that Steele stopped it for nefarious reasons, but also theoretically saved Taylor from possibly even more punishment. Supposedly Taylor was urinating straight blood after the fight and had to be in the hospital for awhile.

    Steele is a controversial figure himself, but I do believe he made the right decision in this case. The question ultimately comes down to, could Chavez had caught Taylor with one more brutal shot in those final seconds, we'll never know, and that's probably a good thing, because Chavez knew he needed the KO to win. It's a crazy fight because Taylor came within seconds of being the first man to hand Chavez a loss, one of the most insane fights I've ever seen.

    ...
    In reading about it, I also read that whoever was in Taylor's corner told him that he needed to win the last round. So Taylor seemed to box in a more aggressive than necessary way, when all he really needed to do was stay upright.

    Lou Duva told him that, Duva also jumped up on the apron after the knockdown in the 12th and started yelling something, I forget what he said, but you can see Taylor look over at him when the referee asks Taylor if he's OK. Lou Duva should have told Taylor he was up on the scorecards and just don't get knocked out, it was stupid of Duva to tell him he needed the round. One more thing before I go to bed, I was more impressed with Taylor in this fight than I was Chavez, Taylor really showed a lot of heart and guts to stand in there with Chavez for 12 rounds and take his best shots and still be able to outbox him, it's just a shame it ended the way it did, a real heartbreaker for Meldrick Taylor. Ok, that's all for me, it's WAY past my bedtime, I've enjoyed the boxing talk tiday, thanks buddy!

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good night DD

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