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Miguel Cabrera is a sure fire HOFer and an all around great guy..

but his last few years in MLB have been pitiful. Dreadful. Almost non-existent. I can't remember such a great player falling of the cliff like he has. I doubt he could play for a good high school team right now. Maybe even the last 3 years.

Anyone think he is really older than he says he is? Like about 4 or 5 years older?

Thoughts?

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    detroitfan2detroitfan2 Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭✭

    My thoughts are that you could have ended your post's title after the word "HOFer".

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    ndleondleo Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think he ate his future

    Mike
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    76collector76collector Posts: 986 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I honestly don't think it's that uncommon although I haven't spent any time looking and comparing just how bad the last few years for Miggy have been compared to other HOFer's. But for one I remember Maddux's last 3 years being nothing more than getting his strike outs up over 3,000. He was a shell of himself by then too. It's hard to quit something you've dedicated your life to being great at, and maybe even harder to convince yourself your no longer "that dude". Add in that no coach wants to be the one to tell a legend he's washed up, and people still want to see those guy's play one more time, and like I said it makes this scenario with Miggy seem to be a farily common way that the all time greats will go out.

    I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid.
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    FirstBeardFirstBeard Posts: 472 ✭✭✭

    Miggy won the triple crown in 2012, had Verlander and Sherzer in the rotation, and was swepped by the SF Giants in the world series that same year. Baseball is the best. The ultimate equalizing game.

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    or246or246 Posts: 108 ✭✭✭

    It doesn't really matter. There are 94 million reasons he is playing the last 3 years (and I would to, even if I needed a walker to play). He was a dominant player and a sure fire HOF that should not have played the last couple years.

    Currently working on 1970 Topps Hockey PSA 9 set
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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,816 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ha, I truly did not know he was still playing. and I dont know that he is an all around great guy...

    other ball players have fallen completely off the ledge. let me think. I am sure i can come up with a few

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,816 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pete Rose comes to mind for his last 3 or 4 years.
    As I recall, Tony Gwynn also ate himself off the field his last couple of seasons. I think he hit well, but was basically only a pinch hitter because of his weight
    Steve Carlton also pitched well past his expiration date. he was pretty bad at the end
    Dale Murphy also lost it.

    I am sure there are lots and lots more.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    Browns1981Browns1981 Posts: 478 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We said the same thing about Albert for years and then he had a great final season.

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    daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @76collector said:
    I honestly don't think it's that uncommon although I haven't spent any time looking and comparing just how bad the last few years for Miggy have been compared to other HOFer's. But for one I remember Maddux's last 3 years being nothing more than getting his strike outs up over 3,000. He was a shell of himself by then too. It's hard to quit something you've dedicated your life to being great at, and maybe even harder to convince yourself your no longer "that dude". Add in that no coach wants to be the one to tell a legend he's washed up, and people still want to see those guy's play one more time, and like I said it makes this scenario with Miggy seem to be a farily common way that the all time greats will go out.

    Maddux wasn't actually that bad in 2006 and 2007, but he sure was in 2008. But regardless of the strikeouts, if someone is willing to pay you $29 million for three years of a job you can't really do anymore, it's hard to say no.

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    CakesCakes Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Browns1981 said:
    We said the same thing about Albert for years and then he had a great final season.

    Guilty as charged. I never thought he would rebound like he did. I am sorry for doubting you!

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    CakesCakes Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    Pete Rose comes to mind for his last 3 or 4 years.
    As I recall, Tony Gwynn also ate himself off the field his last couple of seasons. I think he hit well, but was basically only a pinch hitter because of his weight
    Steve Carlton also pitched well past his expiration date. he was pretty bad at the end
    Dale Murphy also lost it.

    I am sure there are lots and lots more.

    Carlton Fisk lost all of his power his last couple of seasons but I cut him some slack because I thought it was amazing he could still play Catcher in his 40's.

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,816 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cakes said:

    @craig44 said:
    Pete Rose comes to mind for his last 3 or 4 years.
    As I recall, Tony Gwynn also ate himself off the field his last couple of seasons. I think he hit well, but was basically only a pinch hitter because of his weight
    Steve Carlton also pitched well past his expiration date. he was pretty bad at the end
    Dale Murphy also lost it.

    I am sure there are lots and lots more.

    Carlton Fisk lost all of his power his last couple of seasons but I cut him some slack because I thought it was amazing he could still play Catcher in his 40's.

    Good point on Fisk. Catcher is such a physically demanding position that I almost put them into a category by themselves.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    olb31olb31 Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    470 hits and 45 home runs the last 6 seasons (since he turned 35). Really paltry numbers for someone who has 3100 hits and 507 home runs.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
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    CakesCakes Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2, 2023 9:53AM

    @olb31 said:
    470 hits and 45 home runs the last 6 seasons (since he turned 35). Really paltry numbers for someone who has 3100 hits and 507 home runs.

    Great, professional hitter! It's a shame he wasn't more physically fit, His numbers wouldn't have tailed off so bad. I don't really know enough about his career though, it could also be genetics.

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    GreenSneakersGreenSneakers Posts: 908 ✭✭✭✭

    Cabrera most certainly have played on my sons high school team this season. Probably batting fifth.

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    bumpskierbumpskier Posts: 65 ✭✭

    I agree Cabrera is a sure Fire HOF, but I don't know about an all around great guy. He has had a lot of kids by different women and doesn't really lead a team. The Tigers should have had about 3-4 World Series Titles from 2009 to 2018. That starting pitching staff should have been great with Verlander, Scherzer, David Price, Porcello. There was some bad luck with Victor Martinez getting injured after a great season in 2011 and the Tigers spending big money on Prince Fielder who never was able to duplicate his production in Milwaukee with the Tigers. The Tigers also blew it by not signing Scherzer and Porcello to extensions and instead wasting money on Anibel Sanchez and Jordan Zimmerman. David Ortiz age 40 season in 2016 he hit 38 HR and had 127 RBIS.. His leadership won the Red Sox three World Series and I believe he helped them set the foundation for a fourth in 2018, even though he was retired by then. Jeter also had great leadership qualities, even though he was not the Power hitter and RBI producer that Cabrera was. I agree that if Cabrera was in better shape he could have been as productive as Ortiz was in his late 30's and age 40 season.

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    daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bumpskier said:
    I agree Cabrera is a sure Fire HOF, but I don't know about an all around great guy. He has had a lot of kids by different women and doesn't really lead a team. The Tigers should have had about 3-4 World Series Titles from 2009 to 2018. That starting pitching staff should have been great with Verlander, Scherzer, David Price, Porcello. There was some bad luck with Victor Martinez getting injured after a great season in 2011 and the Tigers spending big money on Prince Fielder who never was able to duplicate his production in Milwaukee with the Tigers. The Tigers also blew it by not signing Scherzer and Porcello to extensions and instead wasting money on Anibel Sanchez and Jordan Zimmerman. David Ortiz age 40 season in 2016 he hit 38 HR and had 127 RBIS.. His leadership won the Red Sox three World Series and I believe he helped them set the foundation for a fourth in 2018, even though he was retired by then. Jeter also had great leadership qualities, even though he was not the Power hitter and RBI producer that Cabrera was. I agree that if Cabrera was in better shape he could have been as productive as Ortiz was in his late 30's and age 40 season.

    I guess we'll disagree about Porcello. I think that was a GREAT trade for the Tigers. Porcello was an average pitcher with the Tigers, and then the Red Sox paid him $95 million over five years to be significantly below average and barely above replacement. Even considering his Cy Young award. By the way, Verlander and Fulmer were much better than Porcello in 2016.

    It was briefly questioned on the Sports Talk forum if Porcello was the worst pitcher ever to win the Cy Young. He's got to be close. And it's just stunning to see how much of Porcello's career value was in that not especially great 2016 season.

    So, not going to argue with any of the above, except that Porcello wasn't the one that got away. While I'm not thrilled by what Spier did for Detroit, Wilson was better in Detroit than Porcello was in Boston, and Cespedes was as good before he got traded to New York than Porcello was in 2016. And then he was flipped for the far superior Fulmer and more. The Porcello trade was the gift that kept on giving for Detroit.

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    TabeTabe Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bumpskier said:
    I agree Cabrera is a sure Fire HOF, but I don't know about an all around great guy. He has had a lot of kids by different women and doesn't really lead a team. The Tigers should have had about 3-4 World Series Titles from 2009 to 2018. That starting pitching staff should have been great with Verlander, Scherzer, David Price, Porcello. There was some bad luck with Victor Martinez getting injured after a great season in 2011 and the Tigers spending big money on Prince Fielder who never was able to duplicate his production in Milwaukee with the Tigers. The Tigers also blew it by not signing Scherzer and Porcello to extensions and instead wasting money on Anibel Sanchez and Jordan Zimmerman. David Ortiz age 40 season in 2016 he hit 38 HR and had 127 RBIS.. His leadership won the Red Sox three World Series and I believe he helped them set the foundation for a fourth in 2018, even though he was retired by then. Jeter also had great leadership qualities, even though he was not the Power hitter and RBI producer that Cabrera was. I agree that if Cabrera was in better shape he could have been as productive as Ortiz was in his late 30's and age 40 season.

    Yeah, the real crime here is that Cabrera just completely ignored his fitness. He was never exactly in great shape but he's been in BAD shape for almost a decade.

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    bumpskierbumpskier Posts: 65 ✭✭

    Whose career would you want?

    Albert Pujols
    Derek Jeter
    Alex Rodriguez
    Miguel Cabrera
    Ken Griffey Jr.
    Adrian Beltre
    David Ortiz
    I think I would take David Ortiz. He doesn't have the best career numbers because he didn't become a star until age 26 or 27, but I think he was the best of the above listed from age 32 to 40. he is also rightly beloved in Boston for the 4 World Series wins since 2004 ( I give him some credit for the 2018 WS win even though already retired)_ They still love him in Boston. IF Ken Griffey jr or Alex Rodriguez were shot in the Dominican Republic would the Mariners or Reds or Rangers send a plane and surgeons down to retrieve them, I don't think so.

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    GreenSneakersGreenSneakers Posts: 908 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2023 2:06PM

    .

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    TabeTabe Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bumpskier said:
    Whose career would you want?

    Albert Pujols
    Derek Jeter
    Alex Rodriguez
    Miguel Cabrera
    Ken Griffey Jr.
    Adrian Beltre
    David Ortiz
    I think I would take David Ortiz. He doesn't have the best career numbers because he didn't become a star until age 26 or 27, but I think he was the best of the above listed from age 32 to 40. he is also rightly beloved in Boston for the 4 World Series wins since 2004 ( I give him some credit for the 2018 WS win even though already retired)_ They still love him in Boston. IF Ken Griffey jr or Alex Rodriguez were shot in the Dominican Republic would the Mariners or Reds or Rangers send a plane and surgeons down to retrieve them, I don't think so.

    I'd go with Jeter even though he wasn't the best player on this list. 5 titles, captain of the Yankees, etc. And no failed steroid test like Ortiz.

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    @bumpskier said:
    Whose career would you want?

    Albert Pujols
    Derek Jeter
    Alex Rodriguez
    Miguel Cabrera
    Ken Griffey Jr.
    Adrian Beltre
    David Ortiz
    I think I would take David Ortiz. He doesn't have the best career numbers because he didn't become a star until age 26 or 27, but I think he was the best of the above listed from age 32 to 40. he is also rightly beloved in Boston for the 4 World Series wins since 2004 ( I give him some credit for the 2018 WS win even though already retired)_ They still love him in Boston. IF Ken Griffey jr or Alex Rodriguez were shot in the Dominican Republic would the Mariners or Reds or Rangers send a plane and surgeons down to retrieve them, I don't think so.

    Great question. Ortiz... probably best clutch hitter I've seen. Pujols and Cabrera... best pure hitters of the group. AROD... best 5-tool player I've even seen. With that being said I'd take Jeters career.... 5 World Series and to me the biggest baseball icon of the group

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    detroitfan2detroitfan2 Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭✭

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/267097-terrible-weekend-for-cabrera-and-tigers

    Never even wanted the guy on the team after this incident, and this was probably not even in the top 3 worst things he's done.

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    daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sportscrazy13 said:

    @bumpskier said:
    Whose career would you want?

    Albert Pujols
    Derek Jeter
    Alex Rodriguez
    Miguel Cabrera
    Ken Griffey Jr.
    Adrian Beltre
    David Ortiz
    I think I would take David Ortiz. He doesn't have the best career numbers because he didn't become a star until age 26 or 27, but I think he was the best of the above listed from age 32 to 40. he is also rightly beloved in Boston for the 4 World Series wins since 2004 ( I give him some credit for the 2018 WS win even though already retired)_ They still love him in Boston. IF Ken Griffey jr or Alex Rodriguez were shot in the Dominican Republic would the Mariners or Reds or Rangers send a plane and surgeons down to retrieve them, I don't think so.

    Great question. Ortiz... probably best clutch hitter I've seen. Pujols and Cabrera... best pure hitters of the group. AROD... best 5-tool player I've even seen. With that being said I'd take Jeters career.... 5 World Series and to me the biggest baseball icon of the group

    And, with Ortiz in the Hall, there is no good argument to keep Clemens, Bonds, or Rodriguez out.

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    jayhawkejayhawke Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭

    I remember when the Marlins got rid of him. They said he was lazy and wouldn’t bend for ground balls.

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    JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,448 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @daltex said:

    @sportscrazy13 said:

    @bumpskier said:
    Whose career would you want?

    Albert Pujols
    Derek Jeter
    Alex Rodriguez
    Miguel Cabrera
    Ken Griffey Jr.
    Adrian Beltre
    David Ortiz
    I think I would take David Ortiz. He doesn't have the best career numbers because he didn't become a star until age 26 or 27, but I think he was the best of the above listed from age 32 to 40. he is also rightly beloved in Boston for the 4 World Series wins since 2004 ( I give him some credit for the 2018 WS win even though already retired)_ They still love him in Boston. IF Ken Griffey jr or Alex Rodriguez were shot in the Dominican Republic would the Mariners or Reds or Rangers send a plane and surgeons down to retrieve them, I don't think so.

    Great question. Ortiz... probably best clutch hitter I've seen. Pujols and Cabrera... best pure hitters of the group. AROD... best 5-tool player I've even seen. With that being said I'd take Jeters career.... 5 World Series and to me the biggest baseball icon of the group

    And, with Ortiz in the Hall, there is no good argument to keep Clemens, Bonds, or Rodriguez out.

    >
    >
    Clemens never failed a test, Ortiz failed one, but the other two guys were just ridiculous.

    I can absolutely understand Ortiz being excluded, and letting him in causes issues, but Aroid and Mr Potato head are at the far end of the spectrum and should never get in. Same goes for McGwire, Palmeiro and Sosa.

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