$2,995 for a ½oz. of modern gold?

Goldbully

I just saw this coin being hawked on Rare Collectibles TV.

Never new the Mint made this commemorative.....anyone else know about this coin?

2022 ½oz Super Incuse Gold Half Eagle Commemorative NGC SP70 First Releases

Mintage: 499.....Price: $2.995.00

The pics are not that great.

---

For the 115th Anniversary of the most beautiful American coin, Saint-Gaudens Gold Double Eagle, this Super Incuse Half Eagle Commemorative has been released. The incuse strike of the Indian Head Gold Half Eagle is the most innovative design from the Renaissance of American Coinage. Struck from ½ oz of .9999 pure gold, this commemorative medal honors both Augustus Saint-Gaudens and his protégé Bela Lyon Pratt. By combining the concept of the incuse design from Pratt’s Indian Head Half Eagle with Saint-Gaudens' Double Eagle design, this medal fuses the most beautiful design with the most innovative design. Master engraver John Mercanti recreated the design using Saint-Gaudens original plasters from the Saint-Gaudens National Historical Park. The super incuse design is so extreme that it could not have been made when Saint-Gaudens originally struck his famous Double Eagle in 1907.

https://www.rarecollectiblestv.com/2022-1-2oz-super-incuse-gold-half-eagle-commemorative-ngc-sp70-fr.html

baseballjeff

Looks fishy! I'd stay away from that.

gumby1234

Not made by the US Mint. It states private issue right on the slab and in the description you posted.

Smudge

Hard pass.

Goldbully

@gumby1234 said:
Not made by the US Mint. It states private issue right on the slab and in the description you posted.

You're right, I read the description a bit too fast.

No where does it say made by the U.S. Mint.

Here's the part that tricked me...."Bela Lyon Pratt’s innovative Indian Head design made history as the first and only incuse design struck by the US Mint" Got to pay attention.

This coin is a total rip off.

Walkerfan

Run, Forrest, run!!!

johnny9434

Pass

NJCoin

@Goldbully said:

@gumby1234 said:
Not made by the US Mint. It states private issue right on the slab and in the description you posted.

You're right, I read the description a bit too fast.

No where does it say made by the U.S. Mint.

Here's the part that tricked me...."Bela Lyon Pratt’s innovative Indian Head design made history as the first and only incuse design struck by the US Mint" Got to pay attention.

This coin is a total rip off.

Yup. And the irony is, if the US Mint DID make it with that mintage, it would be selling for 10x as much, and people would be climbing over each other to get one. As it is, the Mint didn't make it, so technically it's not even a "coin." Notice it does not have a denomination.

Goldbully

@NJCoin said:

Yup. And the irony is, if the US Mint DID make it with that mintage, it would be selling for 10x as much, and people would be climbing over each other to get one. As it is, the Mint didn't make it, so technically it's not even a "coin." Notice it does not have a denomination.

---

Good one!

gumby1234

It does say half eagle thou which everybody knows is a $10 gold coin. I kinda like how it looks, but wouldn't pay much over melt for one.

BryceM

There really isn't all that much accessible gold on the planet. Why use it for stuff like this?

BStrauss3

Says on the reverse "Saint Gaudens NHP"... https://www.nps.gov/saga/index.htm

MetroD

NPF = National Park Foundation. Seems they worked with the Saint-Gaudens National Historical Park to gain access to the original 1907 Saint-Gaudens plasters. And John Mercanti was involved with the eagle design.

Appears that the 'Commonwealth Mint' in the UK also made some silver versions.

Reference: https://www.govmint.com/3pc-2022-npf-saint-gaudens-half-eagle-super-incuse-gold-silver-set-ngc-sp70-fdi-black-core-mercanti-signed-label

ARCO

If you ever want to know what any high premium bullion you pay for is really worth? Walk it into a coin shop, they will give you exactly what it is worth - and it won't be anywhere near what you paid.

tincup

Looks like good material for VaultBox.

MarkKelley

@gumby1234 said:
It does say half eagle thou which everybody knows is a $10 gold coin. I kinda like how it looks, but wouldn't pay much over melt for one.

A half eagle is $5. An eagle is $10.

smuglr

I'm unable to post a photo, but the Info and images are easily found on the USM website. The USM did actually produce a similar coin of this design in 2009. A one ounce ultra high relief double eagle. Mintage was around 114,427 with an original issue price of $1189. I think gold was between $900 and $1000 an ounce at the time.

Relaxn

@smuglr said:
I'm unable to post a photo, but the Info and images are easily found on the USM website. The USM did actually produce a similar coin of this design in 2009. A one ounce ultra high relief double eagle. Mintage was around 114,427 with an original issue price of $1189. I think gold was between $900 and $1000 an ounce at the time.

How does that relate?

It's like this one coin minted in this one year despite the weight being different, the year being different, and the minter are different... but let's post this completely unrelated information...
The coin posted is NOT a mint product. It is a bastardization of the design

NJCoin

@BryceM said:
There really isn't all that much accessible gold on the planet. Why use it for stuff like this?

Why? Because it's a way to turn $1,000 worth of a precious metal into $3,000 worth. That's why.

Weiss

I had a visceral, angry reaction just looking at this piece.

NJCoin

@ARCO said:
If you ever want to know what any high premium bullion you pay for is really worth? Walk it into a coin shop, they will give you exactly what it is worth - and it won't be anywhere near what you paid.

I hate to disagree, but, sure they will say it's worth spot, or even less. That doesn't necessarily equate to fair value. Just say what you just said to anyone collects @dcarr's stuff. The fact that a local coin shop will put one of his "tokens" on a scale and offer 98% of melt doesn't mean someone on eBay who knows what the item is won't pay a significant multiple of that.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting the item in the OP is worth 300% of spot, but I'm also not saying that all modern items are not only worth melt, even if that's what some shop owner will try to steal items from the unknowledgeable for.

NJCoin

@MarkKelley said:

@gumby1234 said:
It does say half eagle thou which everybody knows is a $10 gold coin. I kinda like how it looks, but wouldn't pay much over melt for one.

A half eagle is $5. An eagle is $10.

I guess everyone doesn't know what a half eagle is. 🤣

smuglr

@Relaxn I'm sorry you feel it is "completely unrelated information". I think it gives the op an idea of how much of a rip off the piece asked about is and gives him information about an actual USM coin he may be unaware of and interested in.

As far as your comments lots of threads include coins with different dates, mintmarks, years. I thought this was a place to exchange information. If anyone is uninterested in my comments they are free to ignore them and move along. Hmmm I don't think bashing is necessary or allowed? if I understand the forum rules correctly? maybe I'm wrong on that too.

PS "the coin posted" is NOT a coin.

@Relaxn said:

@smuglr said:
I'm unable to post a photo, but the Info and images are easily found on the USM website. The USM did actually produce a similar coin of this design in 2009. A one ounce ultra high relief double eagle. Mintage was around 114,427 with an original issue price of $1189. I think gold was between $900 and $1000 an ounce at the time.

How does that relate?

It's like this one coin minted in this one year despite the weight being different, the year being different, and the minter are different... but let's post this completely unrelated information...
The coin posted is NOT a mint product. It is a bastardization of the design

silviosi

Just by the company disclosure we understand every thing.

GovMint.com® is a brand of Asset Marketing Services, LLC (AMS). AMS is a retail distributor of coin and currency issues and is not affiliated with the U.S. government. The collectible coin market is unregulated, highly speculative and involves risk. AMS MAKES NO WARRANTIES, REPRESENTATIONS, OR PROMISES AS TO ITS PRODUCTS EXCEPT THOSE SET FORTH IN ITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS, AND NO IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS ARE MADE. Prices, facts, figures, and populations deemed accurate as of the date of publication but may change significantly over time. All purchases are expressly conditioned upon your acceptance of our Terms and Conditions; to decline, return your purchase pursuant to our Return Policy. © All rights reserved.

Cocoinut

We all know what they say about a fool and his money....

124Spider

For people with more money than brains

gumby1234

Yes half eagle is $5. I shouldn't type things after a brownie.

Cougar1978

Not for me.

daltex

Am I the only one who has been to the Saint Gaudens Historic Site? The gift shop sells many medals based on his sculpture. I assumed this was one of those.

TomB

@daltex said:
Am I the only one who has been to the Saint Gaudens Historic Site? The gift shop sells many medals based on his sculpture. I assumed this was one of those.

No, you are not the only one who has been to the ASGNHS. I have been there scores of times over the years, including this year before the park was staffed for visitors, and they have not historically sold anything like this. Obviously, this is a privately produced token meant as a money grab and I'm fairly shocked that anyone who posts on this site would not immediately realize otherwise.

Regardless, I have written many threads on the ASGNHS on this board and linked below are three of them I just dug up-

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/971094/standing-lincoln-monument-dedication-at-saint-gaudens-national-historic-site

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/950485/saturn-saint-gaudens-amp-the-tom-seaver-era-new-york-mets

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/897043/a-visit-to-saint-gaudens-national-historic-site-bazillions-of-images

Goldbully

RCTV is now selling CAC graded moderns.

For only $5,395 you can buy a 2023-W 1oz American Gold Eagle CAC PF70 DCAM.

---

https://www.rarecollectiblestv.com/2023-w-1oz-american-gold-eagle-cac-pf70-dcam.html

ricko

The gold piece in the OP is certainly not a coin. It is, however, a nicely made gold piece that I find attractive. I would not pay that price, for sure. Cheers, RickO

Maywood

My, my, we sure a testy group this fine morning!!

BillJones

I guess they must have consulted their attorneys, but including the denomination “HALF EAGLE” on the reverse comes close to violating the anti-counterfeiting laws. The term, “half eagle,” never appeared on a regular issue, U.S. gold coin, but it was in the language that authorized them.

BAJJERFAN

@BryceM said:
There really isn't all that much accessible gold on the planet. Why use it for stuff like this?

Agree, but the gold can always be repurposed.

BAJJERFAN

Why does the label say Sainr-Gaudens NPF, but the coin is Saint-Gaudens NHP?

MetroD

@BAJJERFAN said:
Why does the label say Sainr-Gaudens NPF, but the coin is Saint-Gaudens NHP?

National Park Foundation = NPF
Saint-Gaudens National Historic Park = NHP

Per this GovMint.com webpage, the two "worked" together on the medals.

NJCoin

@BillJones said:
I guess they must have consulted their attorneys, but including the denomination “HALF EAGLE” on the reverse comes close to violating the anti-counterfeiting laws. The term, “half eagle,” never appeared on a regular issue, U.S. gold coin, but it was in the language that authorized them.

Nothing to consult. "Eagle" is not a unit of US currency. Dollars and cents are. Eagles are birds. And football players.

It doesn't matter what we call them. Or the words used in authorizing legislation. Actual coins have to be denominated in dollars or cents. Then and now. Anything else and it's not a US coin. They didn't come close to violating anything. Other than the good sense of anyone who thinks they have value at $3K.

fathom

There is a ton of private issue material that sells at auction for well over spot. Not sure why this is being picked on unmercifully,

Retail price margin perhaps.

Personally, I would price it lower but I am sure the craftmanship and labor costs are considerable.

psuman08

There are a few silver versions they sell on RCTV as well.

bigjpst

@fathom said:
There is a ton of private issue material that sells at auction for well over spot. Not sure why this is being picked on unmercifully,

Retail price margin perhaps.

Personally, I would price it lower but I am sure the craftmanship and labor costs are considerable.

In fact there is a thread with many thousands of posts with people excited about their New privately minted items.
Expensive for sure, but it is a nice design, and if someone with the last name that rhymed with bar minted this and got it in an NGC slab people here would be fawning all over it.

NJCoin

@fathom said:
There is a ton of private issue material that sells at auction for well over spot. Not sure why this is being picked on unmercifully,

Retail price margin perhaps.

Personally, I would price it lower but I am sure the craftmanship and labor costs are considerable.

As are the slabbing, autographing, and telemarketing costs. 🤣

WillieBoyd2

This is not a new idea:

In 1787 Ephraim Brasher, a goldsmith, minted a gold medal with $16 worth of gold.

But he didn't have television to sell it on.

dcarr

@bigjpst said:

@fathom said:
There is a ton of private issue material that sells at auction for well over spot. Not sure why this is being picked on unmercifully,

Retail price margin perhaps.

Personally, I would price it lower but I am sure the craftmanship and labor costs are considerable.

In fact there is a thread with many thousands of posts with people excited about their New privately minted items.
Expensive for sure, but it is a nice design, and if someone with the last name that rhymed with bar minted this and got it in an NGC slab people here would be fawning all over it.

I already did something like this (although not certified by NGC).

"MCMVI" (1906) Saint-Gaudens, "DOUBLE EAGLE" 1-troy-oz 999 gold, 19 minted ;

"MCMVI" (1906) Saint-Gaudens, "TWENTY DOLLARS" over-struck on genuine Saint-Gaudens .900 fine gold $20 Double Eagles, 23 minted ;
"MCMVI" (1906) Saint-Gaudens, "TWENTY DOLLARS" over-struck on genuine modern Saint-Gaudens .900 fine gold $50, 2 minted (test) :

"1934" Saint-Gaudens, "TWENTY DOLLARS" over-struck on genuine Saint-Gaudens .900 fine gold $20 Double Eagles, 61 minted:

"1933" Saint-Gaudens, "NOT LEGAL TENDER" (Hard Times Token), 1-troy-oz 999 gold, 20 minted:

MMXXII (2022) Saint-Gaudens ultra-high-relief, "TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS" (symbolic denomination) over-struck on Canada Maple Leafs 1-troy-oz 9995+ gold, 29 minted:

So my mintages were generally low. Something marketed on TV will likely have a higher mintage.

BillJones

@NJCoin said:

@BillJones said:
I guess they must have consulted their attorneys, but including the denomination “HALF EAGLE” on the reverse comes close to violating the anti-counterfeiting laws. The term, “half eagle,” never appeared on a regular issue, U.S. gold coin, but it was in the language that authorized them.

Nothing to consult. "Eagle" is not a unit of US currency. Dollars and cents are. Eagles are birds. And football players.

It doesn't matter what we call them. Or the words used in authorizing legislation. Actual coins have to be denominated in dollars or cents. Then and now. Anything else and it's not a US coin. They didn't come close to violating anything. Other than the good sense of anyone who thinks they have value at $3K.

The original 1792 coinage act defined the gold coins as eagles ($10), half eagles ($5) and quarter eagles ($2.50). If you look at the titles, in “The Red Book,” those are the words that are used.

NJCoin

@dcarr said:

@bigjpst said:

@fathom said:
There is a ton of private issue material that sells at auction for well over spot. Not sure why this is being picked on unmercifully,

Retail price margin perhaps.

Personally, I would price it lower but I am sure the craftmanship and labor costs are considerable.

In fact there is a thread with many thousands of posts with people excited about their New privately minted items.
Expensive for sure, but it is a nice design, and if someone with the last name that rhymed with bar minted this and got it in an NGC slab people here would be fawning all over it.

I already did something like this (although not certified by NGC).

"MCMVI" (1906) Saint-Gaudens, "DOUBLE EAGLE" 1-troy-oz 999 gold, 19 minted ;

"MCMVI" (1906) Saint-Gaudens, "TWENTY DOLLARS" over-struck on genuine Saint-Gaudens .900 fine gold $20 Double Eagles, 23 minted ;
"MCMVI" (1906) Saint-Gaudens, "TWENTY DOLLARS" over-struck on genuine modern Saint-Gaudens .900 fine gold $50, 2 minted (test) :

"1934" Saint-Gaudens, "TWENTY DOLLARS" over-struck on genuine Saint-Gaudens .900 fine gold $20 Double Eagles, 61 minted:

"1933" Saint-Gaudens, "NOT LEGAL TENDER" (Hard Times Token), 1-troy-oz 999 gold, 20 minted:

MMXXII (2022) Saint-Gaudens ultra-high-relief, "TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS" (symbolic denomination) over-struck on Canada Maple Leafs 1-troy-oz 9995+ gold, 29 minted:

So my mintages were generally low. Something marketed on TV will likely have a higher mintage.

EXACTLY. You didn't make 500, from new gold, and sell them for 3x spot. That's the difference between you and them, and why your creations have actual collector value.

I do notice, though, that there IS a guy on satellite TV Saturday nights who routinely misrepresents items you clearly made on contract for someone. The prices aren't crazy, but he claims they are rare US mint patterns when they are not. I guess there is nothing you can do since the items are out of your hands, but it does nothing for you or your reputation, so you might want to be more careful about who you do business with, since these ARE Dan Carr items being (mis)marketed on TV.

NJCoin

@BillJones said:

@NJCoin said:

@BillJones said:
I guess they must have consulted their attorneys, but including the denomination “HALF EAGLE” on the reverse comes close to violating the anti-counterfeiting laws. The term, “half eagle,” never appeared on a regular issue, U.S. gold coin, but it was in the language that authorized them.

Nothing to consult. "Eagle" is not a unit of US currency. Dollars and cents are. Eagles are birds. And football players.

It doesn't matter what we call them. Or the words used in authorizing legislation. Actual coins have to be denominated in dollars or cents. Then and now. Anything else and it's not a US coin. They didn't come close to violating anything. Other than the good sense of anyone who thinks they have value at $3K.

The original 1792 coinage act defined the gold coins as eagles ($10), half eagles ($5) and quarter eagles ($2.50). If you look at the titles, in “The Red Book,” those are the words that are used.

So what? The units of measurement are dollars and cents, not eagles. Eagles were worth $10. $10 was not worth one eagle.

Dollars and cents are what are defined in the Act, in terms of gold, silver and copper. Eagle is nothing more than an identifying name. That's why you NEVER saw it referenced on actual US coinage.

dcarr

@NJCoin said:

@dcarr said:
...
So my mintages were generally low. Something marketed on TV will likely have a higher mintage.

EXACTLY. You didn't make 500, from new gold, and sell them for 3x spot. That's the difference between you and them, and why your creations have actual collector value.

I do notice, though, that there IS a guy on satellite TV Saturday nights who routinely misrepresents items you clearly made on contract for someone. The prices aren't crazy, but he claims they are rare US mint patterns when they are not. I guess there is nothing you can do since the items are out of your hands, but it does nothing for you or your reputation, so you might want to be more careful about who you do business with, since these ARE Dan Carr items being (mis)marketed on TV.

I believe I know who that is, but I've never seen the show.
If there is a video somewhere of them misrepresenting one of the items, I would certainly watch it.

NJCoin

@dcarr said:

@NJCoin said:

@dcarr said:
...
So my mintages were generally low. Something marketed on TV will likely have a higher mintage.

EXACTLY. You didn't make 500, from new gold, and sell them for 3x spot. That's the difference between you and them, and why your creations have actual collector value.

I do notice, though, that there IS a guy on satellite TV Saturday nights who routinely misrepresents items you clearly made on contract for someone. The prices aren't crazy, but he claims they are rare US mint patterns when they are not. I guess there is nothing you can do since the items are out of your hands, but it does nothing for you or your reputation, so you might want to be more careful about who you do business with, since these ARE Dan Carr items being (mis)marketed on TV.

I believe I know who that is, but I've never seen the show.
If there is a video somewhere of them misrepresenting one of the items, I would certainly watch it.

I'll see if I can dig one up. It's a cheesy, low-def show that seems to be the same thing every week late Saturday night on Dish Network. I'll see if I can find anything on the web. It's clearly your stuff because you can see the "DC" on the labels. I'm sure the people they are selling to have no idea who you are. And, again, they are not marketed as DC overstrikes. They are sold as concept coins or patterns.

Edit -- there are no videos of the shows online, and the website now correctly identifies the two coins they are showing as overstrikes, so it is entirely possible that someone already pointed out the error in the marketing and they fixed it. If they happen to show the coins on TV with the misleading marketing, I'll send you a DM, with the name of the marketer in case you are unaware.

BStrauss3

Deleted, coinage act of 1792 is already posted

bigjpst

@dcarr said:

@bigjpst said:

@fathom said:
There is a ton of private issue material that sells at auction for well over spot. Not sure why this is being picked on unmercifully,

Retail price margin perhaps.

Personally, I would price it lower but I am sure the craftmanship and labor costs are considerable.

In fact there is a thread with many thousands of posts with people excited about their New privately minted items.
Expensive for sure, but it is a nice design, and if someone with the last name that rhymed with bar minted this and got it in an NGC slab people here would be fawning all over it.

I already did something like this (although not certified by NGC).

"MCMVI" (1906) Saint-Gaudens, "DOUBLE EAGLE" 1-troy-oz 999 gold, 19 minted ;

"MCMVI" (1906) Saint-Gaudens, "TWENTY DOLLARS" over-struck on genuine Saint-Gaudens .900 fine gold $20 Double Eagles, 23 minted ;
"MCMVI" (1906) Saint-Gaudens, "TWENTY DOLLARS" over-struck on genuine modern Saint-Gaudens .900 fine gold $50, 2 minted (test) :

"1934" Saint-Gaudens, "TWENTY DOLLARS" over-struck on genuine Saint-Gaudens .900 fine gold $20 Double Eagles, 61 minted:

"1933" Saint-Gaudens, "NOT LEGAL TENDER" (Hard Times Token), 1-troy-oz 999 gold, 20 minted:

MMXXII (2022) Saint-Gaudens ultra-high-relief, "TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS" (symbolic denomination) over-struck on Canada Maple Leafs 1-troy-oz 9995+ gold, 29 minted:

So my mintages were generally low. Something marketed on TV will likely have a higher mintage.

I’m aware. I have been collecting your items for about 10 years. My point wasn’t to dig at you or your items.
But to point out that three times melt for modern, private minted items isn’t as ridiculous as some here seem to think.
There are a couple silver items on your website now that are 4-5 x and a gold that is 1.5. And they will likely sell out.