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Everyone's favorite game. Guess the grade w/ a reward if you are the first to get it right

As many of you know I'm an avid 76 collector and building a 76 registry set so I send in cards I find periodically to get graded. I feel like I have a pretty good eye and understanding of the grading criteria. I've been sending in cards for 15 or more years. Every now and then I get a sub back that makes little sense to me, and my only explanation is that it was graded by a new hire that focuses only on modern. But, maybe my eyes deceive me so who doesn't like to get validation on their thoughts ? I know these cards aren't under magnification so do your best and let me know what grade you think they got. First person to get it right I will send a gift to.

You can just copy and paste this and put your numbers by them...
1. Jutze -
2. armbrister -
3. porter -
4. D'Acquisto -
5. Baldwin -
6. Auerbach -








I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid.
Collecting:
post world war II HOF rookie
76 topps gem mint 10 commons 9 stars
Arenado purple refractors(Rockies) Red (Cardinals)
successful deals with Keevan, Grote15, 1954, mbogoman

Comments

  • tigerdeantigerdean Posts: 903 ✭✭✭
    1. Jutze - 8
    2. armbrister - 8
    3. porter - 8
    4. D'Acquisto - 8
    5. Baldwin - 8
    6. Auerbach - 8

    Lol. They all look like 9 or 10 to me but I guess you got screwed.

  • jamesryanbelljamesryanbell Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭

    8, 7, 8, 7, 8, 8

    -- Ryan Bell
  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Man, the 76 set is my all-time favorite. Love the design, colors, photos and overall set.

    I did send in some last year that were directly out of a Vending box, and only sent the ones I thought were even close to 9/10s. Almost all I got back were 6 or 7.

    If I were grading these I'd give you all 10s, but I wouldn't be surprised if you told us none of these are higher than a 7.

    That Porter is awesome.

    1. Jutze -6
    2. armbrister -6
    3. porter -6
    4. D'Acquisto -6
    5. Baldwin -6
    6. Auerbach -6
  • GroceryRackPackGroceryRackPack Posts: 2,336 ✭✭✭✭✭

    all 8's 'cept for Auerbach...that's a 9

  • 76collector76collector Posts: 986 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rogerandout75 said:
    1. Jutze -6
    2. armbrister -6
    3. porter -6
    4. D'Acquisto -6
    5. Baldwin -6
    6. Auerbach -6

    Hey Roger. Just wondering. Are you guessing all 6’s because you think these cards all look like a 6 ? Or because you’re assuming I’m not happy with the grades from PSA ?

    I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid.
    Collecting:
    post world war II HOF rookie
    76 topps gem mint 10 commons 9 stars
    Arenado purple refractors(Rockies) Red (Cardinals)
    successful deals with Keevan, Grote15, 1954, mbogoman
  • brad31brad31 Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1. Jutze - 8
    2. armbrister -7
    3. porter - 7
    4. D'Acquisto -8
    5. Baldwin -7
    6. Auerbach - 9

    Brad

  • HOMETOWNSPORTSHOMETOWNSPORTS Posts: 50 ✭✭✭

    Love this...I posted similar on 1960 Yaz rookie...lots of fun and reponses

    1. Jutze - 8
    2. armbrister - 8
    3. porter - 7.5
    4. D'Acquisto - 8
    5. Baldwin - 8.5
    6. Auerbach - 7.5
  • blee1blee1 Posts: 713 ✭✭✭
    1. Jutze - 8
    2. armbrister -7
    3. porter -7
    4. D'Acquisto -7
    5. Baldwin -7
    6. Auerbach -7
    Skips PSA Exchange
    Successful transactions with: yankeeno7, raiderguy10, Beck6, CDsNuts, DaveP01, Dboneesq, Elemenopeo, gameusedhoop, georgebailey2, Goldlabels, gstarling, justmichael, etc

    Working on.........
    Tony Dorsett Master Set
    1977 Topps Mexican FB (raw)
    1957 Topps FB Set (raw or graded)
  • RonSportscardsRonSportscards Posts: 735 ✭✭✭✭
    1. Jutze - Authentic Altered
    2. armbrister - Authentic Altered
    3. porter - Authentic Altered
    4. D'Acquisto - Authentic Altered
    5. Baldwin - Authentic Altered
    6. Auerbach - Authentic Altered
  • @76collector said:

    @rogerandout75 said:
    1. Jutze -6
    2. armbrister -6
    3. porter -6
    4. D'Acquisto -6
    5. Baldwin -6
    6. Auerbach -6

    Hey Roger. Just wondering. Are you guessing all 6’s because you think these cards all look like a 6 ? Or because you’re assuming I’m not happy with the grades from PSA ?

    Neither

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool game, bad numbering lol.

    1. Jutze - 9
    2. armbrister - 8
    3. porter - 9
    4. D'Acquisto - 8
    5. Baldwin - 9
    6. Auerbach - 7
    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • pab1969pab1969 Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭✭✭

    all 9's!

  • brad31brad31 Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You asked what someone thinks they should be- I believe 8s and 9s but PSA has gone crazy on 70s cards and started grading them as if they are ultramodern so I put lower than I think they merit

  • 76collector76collector Posts: 986 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OK, all. My point has been proven so I'm just going to reveal the grades.

    My point with this exercise was to test if experienced collectors any longer could tell the difference between a 6, 7, 8 and a 10 in vintage cards. I realize you all didn't have the card in hand with magnification. But past experience subbing cards, and buying graded cards tells me you should be able to see the difference between a 6 and a 10 in vintage cards with the naked eye.

    I took the 2 gem mint 10's from my collection and added them in with 4 cards from my recent sub. I had the 2 gem's graded 5 years ago or so. I have been collecting for 40 years and sent my first submission in 2010. I have sent around 40 sub's with over 1600 cards most of which were vintage and a very large number were 1976's. There was a time when even the average collector could easily determine the difference between a 6 and a 10. With the increase in modern cards being graded I feel like it has impacted the way in which vintage cards are graded. In all of my subs I have never had results like these. I have missed my share of cards with "spider wrinkles" which auto drops them to a 5. But in a 24 card sub with 20ish commons I was expecting all 9's and 10's on, I only received one 9 and a couple 8's and zero 10's. I actually got WAY more 6's and 7's then I did 9's, hell I even got a 2 on one card which matches the number of 9's I got.

    Here are my results. Keep in mind I JUST got back another sub 2 weeks ago with 8 gem mint 10's from 1976 and 1977 out of 31 cards. How are we supposed to determine what should be graded with such wild differences from one grader to another?

    1 1 72679665 NEAR MINT 7 1976 Topps 5 Tom Seaver
    2 1 72679666 MINT 9 1976 Topps 25 Mike Torrez
    3 1 72679667 GOOD 2 1976 Topps 88 Duffy Dyer
    4 1 72679668 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1976 Topps 352 Dave Giusti
    5 1 72679669 NEAR MINT 7 1976 Topps 353 Sixto Lezcano
    6 1 72679670 NEAR MINT 7 1976 Topps 423 Ed Halicki
    7 1 72679671 NEAR MINT 7 1976 Topps 435 Phil Niekro
    8 1 72679672 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1976 Topps 460 Cesar Cedeno
    9 1 72679673 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1976 Topps 469 Rawly Eastwick
    10 1 72679674 NEAR MINT 7 1976 Topps 471 Jim Burton
    11 1 72679675 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1976 Topps 482 Tim Hosley
    12 1 72679676 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1976 Topps 491 Terry Crowley
    13 1 72679677 NEAR MINT 7 1976 Topps 538 Pat Darcy
    14 1 72679678 NEAR MINT 7 1976 Topps 544 Pepe Frias
    15 1 72679679 NEAR MINT 7 1976 Topps 561 Tom Carroll
    16 1 72679680 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1976 Topps 575 Dwight Evans
    17 1 72679681 NEAR MINT 7 1976 Topps 577 Marc Hill
    18 1 72679682 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1976 Topps 586 Ron Schueler
    19 1 72679683 NEAR MINT 7 1976 Topps 600 Tom Seaver
    20 1 72679684 NEAR MINT 7 1976 Topps 622 Rick Auerbach
    21 1 72679685 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1976 Topps 628 John D'Acquisto
    22 1 72679686 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1976 Topps 645 Darrell Porter
    23 1 72679687 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1976 Topps 650 Thurman Munson
    24 1 72679688 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1976 Topps 652 Ed Armbrister

    I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid.
    Collecting:
    post world war II HOF rookie
    76 topps gem mint 10 commons 9 stars
    Arenado purple refractors(Rockies) Red (Cardinals)
    successful deals with Keevan, Grote15, 1954, mbogoman
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,438 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd suspect the person who graded (accurately) the first submission has greater experience with vintage card stock which unfortunately these days is not guaranteed when submitting.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • "what grade you think they got" versus what grade they actually are... ???

  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I was a conspiracy theorist (I'm not) I'd say they don't care, because they'll get sold eventually, people will know the grading was suspect in the early-20s and crack/resend. Win-win for the grading companies.

    On the other hand (more likely), it could cause a ton of long-term customers to get 100% frustrated, start sending cards to a different grading company and never return.

    Either way, sending vintage in these days is becoming more and more difficult to justify. I have one coming out any day that's all 60s & 70s, and I'm expecting a bloodbath. There are several that I cracked and it will be very interesting to see how they compare.

  • 76collector76collector Posts: 986 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BBBrkrr said:
    If I was a conspiracy theorist (I'm not) I'd say they don't care, because they'll get sold eventually, people will know the grading was suspect in the early-20s and crack/resend. Win-win for the grading companies.

    On the other hand (more likely), it could cause a ton of long-term customers to get 100% frustrated, start sending cards to a different grading company and never return.

    Either way, sending vintage in these days is becoming more and more difficult to justify. I have one coming out any day that's all 60s & 70s, and I'm expecting a bloodbath. There are several that I cracked and it will be very interesting to see how they compare.

    Good luck brother. I truly hope you get an experienced vintage that grades your cards comparable to the cards already slabbed from that issue and not based off 2022 Topps chrome cards. Keep us informed when you get yours back.

    Jeff

    I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid.
    Collecting:
    post world war II HOF rookie
    76 topps gem mint 10 commons 9 stars
    Arenado purple refractors(Rockies) Red (Cardinals)
    successful deals with Keevan, Grote15, 1954, mbogoman
  • RonSportscardsRonSportscards Posts: 735 ✭✭✭✭

    @76collector said:
    OK, all. My point has been proven so I'm just going to reveal the grades.

    My point with this exercise was to test if experienced collectors any longer could tell the difference between a 6, 7, 8 and a 10 in vintage cards. I realize you all didn't have the card in hand with magnification. But past experience subbing cards, and buying graded cards tells me you should be able to see the difference between a 6 and a 10 in vintage cards with the naked eye.

    Wow, this is so condescending. The only thing you proved is that it's impossible to accurately grade a card from bad pics on the interwebs.
    Centering isn't everything. Surface issues is a much overlooked factor.
    And with all your claimed experience, you were expecting all 9s and 10s? LOL The Auerbach looks to have a rounded corner and the D'Acquisto appears to have print/surface issues on his chin and sky. The 10s are just an early graded gift. I have early graded 10s that shouldn't be 10s.

  • 76collector76collector Posts: 986 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RonSportscards said:

    @76collector said:
    OK, all. My point has been proven so I'm just going to reveal the grades.

    My point with this exercise was to test if experienced collectors any longer could tell the difference between a 6, 7, 8 and a 10 in vintage cards. I realize you all didn't have the card in hand with magnification. But past experience subbing cards, and buying graded cards tells me you should be able to see the difference between a 6 and a 10 in vintage cards with the naked eye.

    Wow, this is so condescending. The only thing you proved is that it's impossible to accurately grade a card from bad pics on the interwebs.
    Centering isn't everything. Surface issues is a much overlooked factor.
    And with all your claimed experience, you were expecting all 9s and 10s? LOL The Auerbach looks to have a rounded corner and the D'Acquisto appears to have print/surface issues on his chin and sky. The 10s are just an early graded gift. I have early graded 10s that shouldn't be 10s.

    Didn’t mean to sound condescending in the OG thread. I have a 10% gem rate on my past 40 subs. That’s my expectation. I was trying to explain that I didn’t sub those cards hoping for 8’s and they ended up 6’s.

    I was expecting results somewhat similar to what I just received on this sub from 2 weeks ago. Guess I just got “gifts” on these too.

    Ps that was meant to sound condescending, Ronster)

    MINT 9
    1977 Topps 277 N.L. Championship
    MINT 9
    1977 Topps 547 Willie McCovey
    NEAR MINT-MINT 8
    1977 Topps 640 Carlton Fisk
    MINT 9
    1977 Topps 655 Tony Perez
    NEAR MINT-MINT 8
    1977 Topps 140 Mike Schmidt
    NEAR MINT-MINT 8
    1977 Topps 234 Nolan Ryan
    NEAR MINT-MINT 8
    1977 Topps 10 Reggie Jackson
    GEM MINT 10
    1977 Topps 557 Jerry White
    GEM MINT 10
    1977 Topps 584 Ed Goodson
    MINT 9
    1977 Topps 647 Expos Team
    GEM MINT 10
    1977 Topps 554 Bruce Kimm
    MINT 9
    1977 Topps 301 Toby Harrah
    NEAR MINT-MINT 8
    1977 Topps 326 Jesse Jefferson
    MINT 9
    1977 Topps 432 Buzz Capra
    Mint 9
    1977 Topps 516 Bake McBride
    MINT 9
    1977 Topps 539 Mike Wallace
    GEM MINT 10
    1977 Topps 247 Chris Knapp
    GEM MINT 10
    1977 Topps 209 Rob Andrews
    MINT 9
    1977 Topps 230 Vida Blue
    MINT 9
    1977 Topps 629 Bobby Valentine
    GEM MINT 10
    1977 Topps 142 Steve Dillard
    GEM MINT 10
    1977 Topps 93 Tom Poquette
    MINT 9
    1976 Topps 436 Bill Fahey
    MINT 9
    1976 Topps 432 Tom Veryzer
    MINT 9
    1977 Topps 34 Angels Team
    NEAR MINT 7
    1976 Topps 270 Willie Stargell
    MINT 9
    1976 Topps 135 Bake McBride
    MINT 9
    1976 Topps 74 Oscar Gamble
    MINT 9
    1976 Topps 97 Wilbur Howard
    NEAR MINT 7
    1976 Topps 48 Dave Concepcion
    GEM MINT 10
    1976 Topps 477 Indians Team

    I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid.
    Collecting:
    post world war II HOF rookie
    76 topps gem mint 10 commons 9 stars
    Arenado purple refractors(Rockies) Red (Cardinals)
    successful deals with Keevan, Grote15, 1954, mbogoman
  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is why I'm so focused on buying cards already graded. There are 2010 9s in 2023 7 slabs. It's an amazing time to buy undergraded vintage cards. I REALLY want to start submitting again but the cost - 25 bucks Canadian + the uncertainty make it a losers game. Feel like I'd be cracking out half the sub 10 minutes after opening the box.

  • brad31brad31 Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For real when I go to the National I might buy all 70s recently graded 7s.

  • thedutymon11thedutymon11 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭✭

    Afternoon,

    I'm going to make my guesses before I read through the thread to stop any influence. And to show just how terrible I am at grading!

    1. Jutze - EX-MT+ 6.5
    2. armbrister - EX 5
    3. porter - EX-MT 6
    4. D'Acquisto - NM 7
    5. Baldwin - NM 7.5+
    6. Auerbach - EX-MT 6

    YeeHaw!

    Neil

  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,739 ✭✭✭

    ... I truly hope you get an experienced vintage that grades your cards comparable to the cards already slabbed from that issue and not based off 2022 Topps chrome cards. Keep us informed when you get yours back.

    Jeff

    Jeff,
    This is what I'm noticing as well with vintage. They are using the same grading standards with pre-89 cards as they do with today's modern shine. This is not apples to apples.



    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • reelinintheyearsreelinintheyears Posts: 240 ✭✭✭

    Where are the half-point bumps for centering that is far superior to the minimum standards for the assigned grade? It seems like new graders are not being informed that they're not restricted to a 10-point scale. I'm seeing lots of recently graded 6's and 7's with better centering than older 8's and 9's and very rarely do they get the half-point bump. Nobody benefits from this half-point stinginess, especially at grades of 7 and below.

  • BaltimoreYankeeBaltimoreYankee Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Crack and re-sub. Those gem 10s will instantly be 7s and 8s. :p

    Daniel
  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2023 7:27AM

    Zen and the Art of Census Median Maintenance

    Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.

  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,058 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's crazy. Sorry for your sub. That grader was clearly throwing darts. I've had a few submissions over the years that have been significant outliers in grading distribution vs all my others. In the past, I went to Joe Orlando and he helped me to get the head grader to review the under graded cards. On those two submissions, I got about 60% of the cards I sent back in bumped to a higher grade. A point and a half bump in a few cases. These days I wouldn't know who to go to and they probably wouldn't care that they provided a substandard service.

  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @76collector said:

    @BBBrkrr said:
    If I was a conspiracy theorist (I'm not) I'd say they don't care, because they'll get sold eventually, people will know the grading was suspect in the early-20s and crack/resend. Win-win for the grading companies.

    On the other hand (more likely), it could cause a ton of long-term customers to get 100% frustrated, start sending cards to a different grading company and never return.

    Either way, sending vintage in these days is becoming more and more difficult to justify. I have one coming out any day that's all 60s & 70s, and I'm expecting a bloodbath. There are several that I cracked and it will be very interesting to see how they compare.

    Good luck brother. I truly hope you get an experienced vintage that grades your cards comparable to the cards already slabbed from that issue and not based off 2022 Topps chrome cards. Keep us informed when you get yours back.

    Jeff

    Grades were just posted. Mostly 6-9s on the vintage. Weirdly, the early 60s and 79s were mostly 6 or 7s but the rest of the 70s were 7-9 (got a 9 on a 68 Carlton, 78 Rose and the Trammell/Molitor rookies). I"m going to compare tonight to the original grades on the ones I cracked open.

    Other than some with low grades that I missed I think the grades were pretty good (these days) for vintage.

  • RonSportscardsRonSportscards Posts: 735 ✭✭✭✭

    Some have claimed that crackin' is part of PSA's business model. Are they undergrading cards for known 'crackers'? Conspiracy theorists want to know.
    How much crackin' is really going on? 1%? 10%? More? How inaccurate are pop reports?

  • totallyraddtotallyradd Posts: 919 ✭✭✭

    3 1 72679667 GOOD 2 1976 Topps 88 Duffy Dyer

    Oof. was there a hidden wrinkle or crease you missed on this one? Best of luck in your set quest.

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