What is this????? PCGS Please look into this

alaura22

Seems that they added a coin to this set
PANDA SILVER 10 YUAN (30 GM) WITH VARIETIES, CIRCULATION STRIKES (2016-PRESENT)

They added this:
2017 Int'l Collection Expo

Why on earth would they add a 2017 coin to this already established set?
Can they at any time just decide to add some coins?

This is not right in my opinion
Can someone do anything about this?

winesteven

Hotlink please.

I’ve experienced in a different Registry set, where a guy had a coin, and he convinced the Set Registry department to add that coin to the Registry, since technically that argument, with a stretch, could be right. I don’t remember the set or coin (sorry), but several of us then convinced Set Registry to take it down, which they did.

I think in your situation it all depends on how legitimate that added coin deserves to be in that set. So yes, they can add it if it makes sense.

I think if you look to see who added that coin right away to their set is the collector who made that request. Set Registry doesn’t lay awake trying to figure out which older coins can be added to sets.

Good luck!

Steve

alaura22

Link to set I'm talking about

https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/chinese-pandas/chinese-silver-pandas/panda-silver-10-yuan-30-gm-varieties-circulation-strikes-2016-present/6250

coinbuf

@alaura22 said:
Can they at any time just decide to add some coins?

Simple answer, yes this is the PCGS registry and it is up to the registry set team to decide what coins are or are not included into each set.

I'm with you as I don't think these special labels have any place in registry sets, and one of the reasons why I don't collect any of the modern or bullion type of coins/sets. Best of luck in getting it removed.

alaura22

@coinbuf said:

@alaura22 said:
Can they at any time just decide to add some coins?

Simple answer, yes this is the PCGS registry and it is up to the registry set team to decide what coins are or are not included into each set.

I'm with you as I don't think these special labels have any place in registry sets, and one of the reasons why I don't collect any of the modern or bullion type of coins/sets. Best of luck in getting it removed.

Thanks for the support, now how does one go about getting it removed?
Side note: There are a lot of these type coins available, different bank issued coins, different provinces and such. I really don't think that some of them should be added for the sake of adding them.
When this set was first formed it had the 2 varieties included in the set which made it the Varieties Set. You shouldn't be able to go back and ADD coins whenever they like, it's not right, other than adding the coming year versions.
I almost feel that someone talked PCGS into adding this coin because they have some of them for sale, again, not cool.
We'll see what happens

coinbuf

@alaura22 said:
Thanks for the support, now how does one go about getting it removed?

Your guess is as good as mine, I do not collect by plastic so a registry that restricts participation via plastic brand is useless to me so my participation in the registry is extremely limited and my contact with the registry team virtually nil. I have no doubt that some people have the ear of PCGS, I guess you just have to be one of those people.

Perhaps attempt to contact the other members who have sets in this category and see if you can be successful in getting them to contact PCGS with their dislike of the change as well. The more that dislike the change the better the odds of it being reversed.

alaura22

@coinbuf said:

I'm with you as I don't think these special labels have any place in registry sets, and one of the reasons why I don't collect any of the modern or bullion type of coins/sets. Best of luck in getting it removed.

I totally agree with you as far as some of these sets go
The only reason I have this set, and a few others, was to fulfill the requirements of the PCGS Awards Program where you have to have certain sets. I accomplished that, (currently #46 in the rankings), plus it's a cute little bear. Without that requirement I would never have started those sets.

Goldminers

There are cases where a variety can become major, if over time it is determined to be more rare or desired than first thought. For example, the 2014 $5 gold eagle narrow reeds at first it was thought 1,000's were out there, but after almost 10 years only 40 or so have been graded. Most of the coins with the 1/10-ounce Buffalo narrow reed collar, that was used in error on these uncirculated eagles, ended up being struck with the 2015 dated dies. This is why PCGS placed the 2014 as #2 of 100, in the recent top 100 modern coin registry set.

If this Panda is a significant newly confirmed variety, then it should be added to sets, even those well established. However, if it is a minor variety, it should not normally be added, and label only varieties absolutely not, unless the set is specifically for labels.

I know nothing about these Pandas, so do not have any opinion on your specific set, but it sounds like it is not a major variety. Rarely, but occasionally new MAJOR varieties are discovered a few years after minting that should be added to existing sets for completeness.

alaura22

Thanks for your imput. I don't see this addition as a major variety, just another "label" as you call it

Samets

To be fair, it's not just a label. The coin itself is different from the standard one sold. Registry is a living dex and things get added and removed. Obviously someone made an argument for it's inclusion and PCGS agreed.

johnny010

@alaura22 said:
Thanks for your imput. I don't see this addition as a major variety, just another "label" as you call it

Can you clarify which comment you’re referring to please?

alaura22

@johnny010 said:

@alaura22 said:
Thanks for your imput. I don't see this addition as a major variety, just another "label" as you call it

Can you clarify which comment you’re referring to please?

This one

@Goldminers said:
There are cases where a variety can become major, if over time it is determined to be more rare or desired than first thought. For example, the 2014 $5 gold eagle narrow reeds at first it was thought 1,000's were out there, but after almost 10 years only 40 or so have been graded. Most of the coins with the 1/10-ounce Buffalo narrow reed collar, that was used in error on these uncirculated eagles, ended up being struck with the 2015 dated dies. This is why PCGS placed the 2014 as #2 of 100, in the recent top 100 modern coin registry set.

If this Panda is a significant newly confirmed variety, then it should be added to sets, even those well established. However, if it is a minor variety, it should not normally be added, and label only varieties absolutely not, unless the set is specifically for labels.

I know nothing about these Pandas, so do not have any opinion on your specific set, but it sounds like it is not a major variety. Rarely, but occasionally new MAJOR varieties are discovered a few years after minting that should be added to existing sets for completeness.

alaura22

@Samets said:
To be fair, it's not just a label. The coin itself is different from the standard one sold. Registry is a living dex and things get added and removed. Obviously someone made an argument for it's inclusion and PCGS agreed.

If I wanted I could probably find about 10 different "labels" of these coins. Should all of them be added???
It's not a BIG coin for this series so there is nothing special about it

FMC2021

You all must have seen that this is the second coin added to the set; about 6months ago the 2016 Shenyang mint was added-lol

alaura22

I just resoled the problem
I just sold my set!
I will no longer collect these if they continue to add coins to it
Done

oldsmagnet

You're in (or were in) the wrong set composite. "With varieties" indicates different variations of minted coins per year, and are always subject to change when new examples are found -- many times PCGS and the Set Registry aren't aware of other coins until somebody finds one and submits it for grading. It's something I've done a LOT of with the Australian Kookaburra privy coins (limited run coins with special stampings on them to commemorate... well... whatever they're wanting to celebrate at the time, really...) --If I'm reading this thread correctly, the coin in question is a different coin than the regularly minted offering (marked around the edge of the coin) and is not simply a different "label" (like First Strike, or First Day of Issue) on the slab. It is a physical difference in the coin that, when held side by side "raw" is still identifiable as a different coin. The idea of "Variety" sets is to get the FULL spectrum of available coins catalogued (and ideally collected). For those who truly want to complete a collection, it gives an opportunity to identify which coins are missing. For me, the Set Registry apparently refuses to make a complete variety set for the Kookaburra, so I have to rely on the NGC Registry to map out my empty slots. And then put them in my own Showcase as I get them found. It's disappointing to have to do it that way, but it's all they'll let me do there.

If your most recent post is valid, I guess I'm a day late and dollar short here (well... more like a month...) but, the collection I think you really wanted to be in is here:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/chinese-silver-pandas/chinese-silver-pandas/panda-silver-10-yuan-30-gm-circulation-strikes-2016-present/composition/6249
where you're just representing one coin per year -- if you have one of the less common varieties, in a better grade, it can still be used in the slot, but won't be a required coin to find. If nothing else, it can maybe be something to take note of in future collection endeavors, in recognizing and understanding that the Set Registry typically offers different collections for Basic, Major Varieties, and Complete (minor) Varieties, and you may have to search out the set composite that most closely matches what you're trying to build.

alaura22

@oldsmagnet said:

Thanks for the reply.
I did have both sets, one with varieties and one without.
It just was very surprising that after 6 years they decided to add this coin, out of the blue. And, nobody has that coin in there set.........yet
As I mentioned, I retired both sets and will not look back
Edit to add:
Most of these coins, the Panda Silver 10 Yuan from my set are now listed on GC as of 6-27 and some will be listed next week if anyone wants to fill some slots.

oldsmagnet

It could very well be that someone submitted that coin for grading, and someone on the Set Registry team noticed that it existed and that was all it took -- I want to believe they should strive to keep their variety sets as complete and accurate as they can get - a few years ago I submitted a stack of obscure Kookaburra privy sets for grading, and by the time the slabs were back in my hands, the Set Registry had created three different sets for those series of coins. Kinda blew me away, since three years later, I'm still the only one in those sets, and many of the coins are population one-or-two total. (I'm guessing they fired the guy or something, because they don't seem to care at all about the Kookaburras any more...(sigh))

Now, when they start mandating the truly one-off coins, that's when it gets a little uncertain -- Ike sets, a new discovery surfaced a couple years ago, a true one-of-one rarity. Probably a 7 figure coin if they ever decide to sell it (which they won't, I'm quite sure) -- It's a fantastic piece, there's no doubt, and owning it should absolutely command some form of extra recognition over the lower sets, but... how do they take a presumed single minted coin, and make that a mandated variety? I'm kinda torn on how to process that (but I'm not going to sell off my sets for it ) -- I find it fascinating that after 50 years, they're still making new discoveries, which is a good sign that the hobby is still healthy and thriving.