Time to check in on Trouty
countdouglas
Posts: 2,405 ✭✭✭✭✭
Welcome back class! I see a lot of new faces, and a few of you that keep failing and having to take the class over and over, again and again. 20 games is a good time to take our first look at Trouty and his lack of clutch performances.
First stat: Angels are 7-10 when Trouty starts in CF, 3-0 when someone else starts in CF. The God of W.A.R. is a Shamgod. Why is this? Because Trouty is an absolutely terrible hitter in his late game at bats, ESPECIALLY when the score is close, and the pressure is on, and clutch performances are needed.
3/30 - Up 1-0 in 8th, Trouty lines out to left. The Angels lose 2-1.
4/1 - Up 13-1 in 7th, Trouty hits a force out to SS. Angels win 13-1.
4/2 - Up 6-0 in the 9th, Trouty flies out to CF. Angels win 6-0.
4/3 - Up 4-3 in 7th, Trouty walks. Up 6-3 in 9th, Trouty walks again. Angels win 7-3.
4/4 - Down 11-0 in 8th, Trouty singles. Angels lose 11-2
4/5 - Up 2-1 in 7th, Trouty gets an infield single and RBI. Up 4-3 in 9th, Trouty strikes out. Angels win 4-3.
4/7 - Down 4-3 in the 7th, Trouty flies out to right. Angels lose 4-3.
4/8 - Up 7-5 in the 7th, Trouty flies out to right. Angels win 9-5.
4/9 - Trouty had struck out earlier in the 4th. Down 10-6 in the 7th, Trouty strikes out again. Down 10-7 in 9th, Trouty strikes out a 3rd time. Down 12-10 in the 10th, bases loaded, on a 3-2 count, Trouty's teammates were getting the Golden Sombrero ready for their boy, but the pitcher spiked the ball in the dirt at about 57 feet to walk him. There wasn't a person in that stadium that thought Trouty would do anything but strike out. All the pitcher had to do was get it over, and he spiked it! Ohtani was the most shocked of all! He'd seen that movie 100 times, so shocked that he wasn't prepared to hit. He rolled one over to second for the final out. Angels lose 12-11.
4/10 - Down 6-4 in the 9th, Trouty struck out for the 3rd time in the game. Angels lose 6-4.
4/11 - Up 2-0 in 8th, Trouty flies out to right. Angels win 2-0.
4/12 Up 3-2 in 7th, Trouty walks. Brett Phillips was the star of the game, getting the start in CF. He stole 2 bases, drove in a run, scored a run, and made some great defensive plays amongst his 7 putouts. Angels win 3-2.
4/14 - Down 3-2 in 7th, Trouty doubles. Down 5-3 in the 9th, Trouty strikes out facing Kenley Jansen. I believe they said on the broadcast that Trouty was 0-10 in his career with 8 K vs Jansen. Makes sense. Jansen is only facing Trouty late in the game with a lead, the exact scenario, when the Angels are trailing late in a game, that Trouty forgets how to hit. I've said it 1,000 times. Stop making excuses for the guy. Either pinch hit for him after the 6th inning, or let the Angels' manager hold up 3 fingers, give Trouty the automatic strikeout, and keep the game moving. Angels lose 5-3.
4/15 - Tied 6-6 in the 6th, Trouty goes down looking at strike 3. Up 7-6 in the 8th, Trouty hits a little pop up to right that falls in for a single. Angels lose 9-7, though.
4/16 - Down 2-1 in the 9th, Trouty strikes out. Angels lose 2-1.
4/17 - Trouty gets a day off, and the Angels win 5-4.
4/18 - Up 5-2 in the 7th, Trouty strikes out. Angels win 5-2.
4/19 - Down 2-1 in the 8th, Trouty strikes out. Tied 2-2 in the 9th, with 2 runners on, Trouty strikes out. Angels lose 3-2.
4/20 - Down 5-3 in 7th, Trouty hits an infield single. Angels lose 9-3.
4/21 - Trouty gets the night off, and the Angels win 2-0.
So much for "the greatest clutch hitter of our generation". Check back for another review in a couple of weeks. Until then... Pay attention. Watch the games. You'll learn a lot about baseball that way.
Comments
Based on what is above, 7th inning plus: 5-20 with 4 walks. 4 singles, one double. .250 BA .375 OBP.
Not great, but far from awful. Granted, you want more from your key players, but it's still early in the season.
Not that I have paid super-close attention to these threads, but which posters have called Trout "the greatest clutch hitter of our generation"? Edit - Perhaps, the best player of this generation and a potential all-time great - which he just might be - , but I don't recall clutch.
My only real takeaway is that your negativity towards Trout almost seems personal. To each their own.
He is talking about this information posted below and thinks because Trout did worse than Trout in the late innings(compared to the early innings) that he isn't clutch. One cannot deny that Trout does hit worse late/close compared to earlier on. However, a greater understanding of the game will know why, especially the modern game with the dominant bullpen arms.
In reality, even when Trout is hitting worse when it is late/close, he is still hitting better than everyone in the league late/close. SO he has actually been the best hitter in MLB in the late/close situations.
Here is what the entire of MLB batters did in late/close situations in 2021:
The league average batting average in late/close situations last year was .228. Yes, only .228.
The league average OB% in late/close situations last year was .315. Yes, only .315.
The league average SLG% in late/close situations last year was. .377. Yes, only .377.:
NOBODY IS HITTING THOSE GUYS!
Trout's career slash line in late/close games of .251/.411/.465 is actually darn impressive considering how weak the league is hitting there against those six foot five flame throwing monsters on the mound, especially knowing that the manager is going to do his very best to put a tough RH pitcher out there for Trout to face, and Trout will only see the absolute most elite LH pitchers in those cases.
TROUT's lifetime OPS in Late/close is .876. He may be more human in comparison to his overall self, but he is STILL the best there!
As evidenced by the league averages above, the entire league hits worse in late/close situations, but so do all the elite players like Trout: Here are the contemporaries with at least 3,000 plate appearances:
TROUT .876
Cabrera .857
Goldschmidt .797
Freeman .786
Betts .879…..not park adjusted. .925/850 overall home road splits, Fenway adjusts him lower than Trout.
Votto .860
Harper .797
Altuve .737
David Ortiz .870….He is more in the previous era, but here for comparison how clutch Trout has been.
Rizzo .760
Rendon .763
Correa .737
Trout is still the king of late/close hitting and more importantly, the overall King when you look at his entire array of plate appearances and not just focusing on the fifteen percent of them of late/close.
PS None of this even includes base running where Trout has excelled over almost every other elite hitter.
That is why Trout has led the league in Win Probability Added five times in his career. That measurement encompasses every single event the laymen fan claims, but also includes all the events they conveniently ignore.
Fans are still stuck in previous eras. Hitters no longer get to face the Starting Pitcher for a fourth time in the game like they used to. There are so many elite arms coming out of the bullpen now to stifle hitters.
Trout in his career was only allowed to face the start for the fourth time in the game for a total of 144 times. In those 144 times Trout has murdered them .328 Batting average, .431 OB%, and .672 SLG% when he faced them in the game late for the fourth time.
Trout, or any elite hitter now, doesn't get that luxury to face the starter a fourth time. They get a fresh arm throwing 98 wiht movement and command and it is typically the same handedness as their bat making it even that much hard.
That is why the numbers across MLB are down for ALL hitters. So the OP hasn't discovered anything. other than he doesn't quite know as much as he is presuming....and that emotions shouldn't rule your judgement.
For comparison, Brett was allowed to face the starter his fourth time in the game for 1,076 times.
Those days are gone.
So, who watched the Angels game on Saturday, 4/22?
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It's pretty easy, really. You just have to watch the games. Trouty's absolutely worthless from the 7th inning on. If Trouty can't hit it, and you know he can't hit it, because guys are throwing gas or pitches with extreme break, or whatever excuse you want to make for Trouty not being able to get the ball in play, then it's simple. Get him out of the game. Get somebody in there that can. Base hits late in the game, which lead to comebacks, happen all the time in today's game, with players much less accomplished than Trouty. He just can't handle pressure. He has zero clutch ability.
Why not Ohtani? He grounded out in the ninth and was 0-5. What are his 7th inning and after stats? Are they significantly better than Trout's? If not, why not go after him, too? Is is due to salary? I am actually just curious.
It is not often mentioned that Trout is no longer an effective CFer. in fact, it has been quite a few years since he has even been average. He is getting a healthy WAR boost due to the positional adjustment. one that he is not earning.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Meanwhile, Trout is hitting .375 with 2 outs and RISP this year and .286 in late & close situations, .292 in tie games, and .348 when his team is trailing.
To be fair, he IS awful in the 9th inning, batting .000 with 7 K in 8 ABs. That's remarkably terrible.
Yes, there is something to that notion. At least that is worthy of a real discussion.
Currently, Mookie Betts is the only player in MLB with a better career OPS in Late/Close games than Mike Trout. Minimum 3,000 at bats for career.
Who else has done better than Trout late/close. Betts. That's it.
How is being second to Betts equate to not being able to hit late/close? That means nobody else can hit then either.
So who are all these other guys that get hits "all the time" in late/close games? The league hits .230 late/close. So if .230 equates to "all the time," then ok. lol.
The funny thing is, Trout hit a go ahead home run in the fifth inning of that game and the pitching went on to give up 11 runs and lose.
If you understand baseball then you know that key hits don't have to happen in the last three innings. A key blow can even happen in the first inning.
Trout merely being the second best hitter in late/close situations in his era may knock a little luster off his all time status, but nothing like the OP is saying.
So, who watched the Angels game on Saturday, 4/23?
Trout homered in the bottom of the 6th inning to give the Angels a 3-2 lead.
Trout doubled leading off in the bottom of the 8th inning with the Angels leading 4-3 but was stranded at 3rd.
Don't worry Count Dougie will figure out some way to explain away how worthless Trout's 3-4 with 3 extra base hits in a 4-3 Angels win was.
At this point, given Dougie's animosity to Trout, we just have to assume Trout slept with his wife or something.
Robb
Stranded on third??? If he had any baserunning ability he would have stolen home.
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Ralph
.....
solid point, brick.
People forget how powerful Trout is.
Keep in mind that Griffey left the Mariners and headed to Cincy with 398 lifetime home runs and held the world captivated at that point by hitting all those home runs. It took him 5,832 at bats to hit those.
Right now Trout has 355 home runs and it took him 5,176 at bats to do so.
Trout has been every bit the home run hitter that Griffey was in his prime.
Jim Rice hit 382 home runs and some fans called him the "most feared" hitter in doing so. It took Rice 8,225 at bats to achieve those.
Health willing, Trout will equal Rice's HR totals in 2,500 less at bats
Oh, and Trout gets on base as good as Rickey Henderson to boot.
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Again, there is no need for my guy Jim Ed to be out here, for no apparent reason, catching stray attacks on the forum. 😂
Yeah, I didn't really want to. I respect Rice.
But the comparison should bring home a point. Many considered Rice the most feared hitter and yet Trout will out homer Rice in 2,500 less at bats. That is an insane margin. That isn't even considering Trout's BA and OB%. It just shows how good a hitter that Trout is.
You’ve done a good job of proving how great trout is, now are there any stats to support how thrilling and exciting the angels have been to watch during trout’s career?
You’ve convinced me he’s great but what’s the point when he never gets to the postseason to show off his talents? The one time he was in the playoffs a bunch of no name royals demolished him.
You say trout is great, fine but I say he’s irrelevant in baseball.
Usually most talk here is devoted to winning players and teams, nothing wrong with talking so much about losers but it’s just kind of boring.
@Darin thrilling and exciting is purely in the eye of the beholder.
I often wonder why anyone would go to a Pirates game(or Royals the last few years for that matter) when they are terrible and you know they will mostly lose....yet fans still go to watch and still cheer those bad teams when doing well. They are still entertained. They are still excited.
So I don't have that answer. It is clear many find Trout very exciting even if the Angels management has failed them, and that is why they haven't won, the management.
Ohtani is the most popular player in the world and they don't win.
Trout hits exciting mammoth home runs. Home Runs are exciting. He hits them as good as Griffey did in his prime, so why would you be surprised that people appreciate how great Trout is even though their team is lacking.
The reality is because many, many people appreciate greatness and can separate why that player may not win from their emotions, and when they see a mismanaged team.
Ernie Banks was the most popular player in Chicago history for a long time. They never won anything and weren't even close.
The Angels signed Pujols to a bad contract because he was a 'winner'
They signed Rendon to a big contract because he was a 'winner'
That 'winner' notion is usually just BS applied to a player who happened to play on a great team(even if they were great themselves). Or a team that just got hot at the right time. It is a hyped media term used to make a compelling story. It isn't reality.
Media sells stories, not truths.
They both sh*t the bed with Angels, Rendon more so than Pujols. Pujols only seemed good because he was gettin 100 RBI a year...and he got those 100 RBI because Trout was so good at getting on base in front of him. Pujols was an out making machine for the Angels.
Etc...none of that is news. Everyone knows management has not built a proper pitching staff for years, they made horrible free agent signings, and Trout is the only player they have developed from their system.
How many teams win when they only develop one player from their farm system in twelve years??
You don't win if you can't develop cheap labor in that six year window.
One does not simply walk into Mordor.
Knowing this, I am surprised that anyone is surprised that the Angels haven't won. Seems fairly obvious to me.
I have never before heard Ted Williams described as boring and irrelevant to baseball. I will be shocked if I ever hear him described that way again. Usually most talk here is conducted by people who understand baseball. Nothing wrong with hearing from the other side, but it's kind of painful.
Mr. Robinson, I haven’t watched a royals game all year. If they can’t put a decent product on the field they’re not getting any attention from me. I feel bad for Salvy though, he could help out a contending team.
If I was an angel fan I think I would have gotten zero enjoyment out of the many years trout has been there. Just way too much losing.
Don’t worry Big D we won’t discourage you from posting simply because of a lack of knowledge, just stick with it and you’ll learn the game of baseball in no time.
Yeah, I don't get much enjoyment when teams are bad either....but I still watch games and follow because I love baseball.
I also still watch MLB network a lot but that is more so only when Lauren Shehadi is on because that is always a treat
However, knowing the difference as to why a team can't win, and how good an individual players is, is just part of simply enjoying the game of baseball and its history.
Angels management botched what they had. They didn't develop any lasting players to have cheap talent, and their free agent signings were awful. It's too late now. They never had a top pitching staff in Trout's tenure. If I were one of their fans, I may not have paid money to see them either, but not because of Trout.
Did you really just say "I know you are, but what am I?" That has to sting.
Bear in mind the people not understanding that they are watching one of the all-time greats "because he never goes to the postseason", also missed Joe Morgan, who was in the postseason all the time. Their excuses vary, but the constant is that they don't know how to recognize great players. And if you doubt me, go back and read one of the Schmidt/Brett threads.
It would be nice if you had the reading comprehension skills that 48 Robinson has. I do understand trout is a great player, I’ve even seen him play in KC, just don’t enjoy watching teams that lose year after year. Nothing wrong with that is there?
That’s why when the Royals clicked in ‘14 and ‘15 it was so enjoyable, it would be nice if that happened with the angels and trout. Believe me I would be watching but not expecting that anytime soon.
I'm just sad for the likes of @countdougIas who really can't understand that they are watching one of the all-time greats. A clue: no one's clutch performance is at all dependent on what he does when the team is down 11-0.
Griffey really didnt become a home run hitter until 1993. Prior to that, he hit lots of doubles. He had seasons of 16, 16, 22 and 27 HR. from 93-99 he had a string of HR seasons Trout will never match: 45,40,17,49,56,56,48,40
Whether because of injury, taking lots of BBs or whatever the reason, Trout will never match those seasons strung together.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Correct, Trout won't have as many 50 home run seasons or match Griffey's top few HR total seasons....but you can't just eliminate the 16 home run seasons Griffey had, because in the end, when Griffey left Seattle with 398 Home Runs being viewed as an elite of the elite home run hitter, he and Trout will have basically hit the same amount of home runs in the same amount of at bats. That's how good a slugger Trout is.
Injuries did cost Trout two 50 home run seasons. How many over 50, who knows, but that was easily going to happen without the stints on the IL.
I have a hunch that Trout has a greater chance to continue more 40 HR seasons going forward. Like you said though, he has to be on the field. Trout has tremendous power.
I am more interested in Griffey's peak value. He had about 7-8 years of peak HR power. it took him about 4 years to find that stroke, and then after 2000 or so, injuries derailed him. But for those 7-8 years, few ever were better at hitting home runs.
I have some real reservations that Trout will stay healthy enough to string together too many more 40-50 HR seasons. The last season he played in > 150 games was 2016. I would be shocked if he ever has a season where he plays in that many again.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
That is true.
Yeah, I wouldn't place on money on him playing 145 games, but it is also possible he is relatively healthy again for several years. Will see.
Soooo, Trout hit a go ahead HR in the ninth inning yesterday in their win. Just want to note that as the HR will get ignored when he strikes out in the ninth inning a week from now with a man on base and it is posted as if he isn't capable of hitting in the late innings...even if he does have the second best OPS in late/close games in MLB among active players(3,000 plus at bats.
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The Count Dougie Trout narrative takes another hit as the Rangers intentionally walk Trout to lead off the 10th inning with a man on 2nd in a tie game last night.
Of course, Trout singled with 2 out in the bottom of the 8th inning to drive in a run in the same game. The scenario that Dougie claims Trout never succeeds in, since you know, he watches all the Angels games.
Robb