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Does John Stockton = Mike Trout
olb31
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1) both are awesome players
2) both have never won a championship
Stockton is probably one the top 25 players of all-time. Trout isn't quite that high yet, but has great stats.
However, as far as value and speculation, Trout runs circles around Stockton. Trout's rookies have sold for over a million dollars.
Stockton's rookie might sale for $500 - $750.
I find the basketball-baseball comparison interesting and confusing. Lebron, Kobe, and Michael cards sale for unbelievable prices. Maybe only being surpassed by Mickey Mantle cards. But a card like Stockton gets hammered by his baseball counterpart Trout. it's like comparing a Cal Ripken 1982 topps psa 10 vs a 1982 Topps psa 10 Bob Dernier or maybe worse.
More questions than answers.
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The only way you would ever be able to compare those 2 players is if in the 4th quarter of every close game, Stockton suddenly turned into a turnover machine that was also clanging his layups and bricking his free throws leading directly to a loss. Trouty's sphincter puckers up and he forgets how to even play the game when the situation causes the pressure to even minimally increase.
I would compare Stockton to Paul Molitor and that's as far as I would go.
Why do some people say sale for instead of sell for?
Stockton was never considered the best player in the league.
From his era, I would compare Stockton to Ryne Sandburg.
It took the GOAT to deny Stockton two rings. Also member of greatest BKB team ever assembled / 92 DT. All time assist leader by almost 4,000. All time steals leader too.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
I stopped reading after "not that high yet"
I don't get the comparison.
Trout has been the best hitter in all of baseball and won 3 MVPs with 2 second place finishes.
Stockton was never above #7 in MVP voting, he was a great assist guy. People pay big money for scorers, not assist guys.
Trout cards may be overpriced and Stockton's are a bargain, but the two players do not match up well imo.
Yes Stockton was a great player. He may have been the best point guard ever. It's hard to deny that he is not one of the top 25 players of all-time.
All-time leader in steals and assists.
Steals by 600
assists by 3800.
Molitor can't hold his jock and neither can sandberg. The 4 main basketball stats are points, rebounds, steals, and assists. And stockton is the all-time leader in two of the 4.
Great team player.
my comparison is more about never being champions, but being dominate players. and then comparing their cards. it is interesting that stockton could finish as the all-time assist leader and steals leader and never had been in the top 7 of the mvp race. i think that says more about whose voting than stockton's talent.
Think about this Molitor played DH his last 5 season. The point guard of NBA team isn't afforded the opportunity to just shoot threes or layups or free throws.
ignorant i guess.
This used to confound me too. Then I moved to WV. I still don’t know why they do but I know where it comes from. 🤓
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I'll never understand the "championship" argument when discussing team sports.
It's also hard to compare guys from different sports.
Card prices are ultimately driven by what player is liked by people.
People don't seem to be impressed by Stockton. I think he's very undervalued, but couldn't care less about him never being on a team that won it all.
Probably because my favorite player never was part of a World Series winner.
OK, I won’t deny that he’s not one of the top 25, I’ll agree: he’s not.
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Looks like a BGS 8 Stockton 1984 Star Rookie is in the $600 range.
Barkley in BGS 8 have been about $700.
Olajuwon in BGS 8 have been in $800 range.
Those seem about where they should be in relation to each other and their basketball prowess
Stockton had a PSA 8 go for $800. I don't see any PSA examples of the other two in 8's for a straight comparison.
Maybe Stockton is more like Pete Rose. Both are all-time leaders in statistic categories that are typically discounted when in the greatest or Top 25 conversation. Points = HRs and is the statistical category from each sport that tends to put people in the top 25.
Best point guard ever? There are at least 3 guys ahead of him - Magic, Curry, and Oscar. Maybe Isiah Thomas is ahead of him as well.
As others pointed out, Stockton is fairly valued.
stockton duncan hakeem, etc. all top 25 players to me, but collecting wise not many people seem interested.
duncan is arguably as good as lebron and kobe, but you wouldn't know by their card prices.
rose is right on the fringe of the top 10 of all-time and his card prices warrant that.
magic and curry are better than stockton overall. both are top 10 kind of guys.
trout, imo, will be very lucky to have finished in the top 5 in any category much less number 1 in two of the most important.
stabler bradshaw starr namath and i can go on and on have high card prices only because they won championships. without the championships they are just above average players with very average stats.
Mid 80's to mid 90's Charles Barkley would be my choice over Stockton if I'm understanding this correctly. Chuck's big time cards sell solidly and ain't cheap. Bob McAdoo in the 70's to early 80's checked off a lot of basketball stat boxes, like Trout in MLB, before the Laker Golden parachute happened and he earned a couple of titles with Showtime. Though his RC value doesn't really match the truly great player he was in his first 6, 7 seasons.
Are Trout cards really a good comparison? Aren't all his cards that are expensive mainly because they are 1 0f 10 or Rookie Auto or some other rarity that is graded a 10 and worth a ton?
What are the price of Trout cards compared to Pujols or Bryce Harper or Vlad JR or Julio Rodriguez etc?
Ain't nothing, I repeat nothing is more exciting in Sports than seeing Trout work out a WALK when his team is behind by 8 runs.
Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.
There are different avenues to popularity, and popularity is what drives the card prices. For some players being in the championship spotlight adds more value to their cards than if they had not won.
Some players are so good it doesn't matter if they win championships or not...Williams, Banks....and Don Mattingly etc... Don Mattingly was the most popular baseball card in his time despite not being a 'winner'.
Trout has won three MVP's and every knowledgeable baseball person in the game knows he has been the best player for a solid decade. Most fans know the same too. Every former player or executive that is on MLB network has been in unanimous agreement about Trout being the best player. That type of consensus is rare.
Nolan Ryan is one of the most valuable cards of his time and he isn't near the best pitcher during the time. Never won a Cy Young. When he won his won world series he wasn't one of the top pitchers on the team, so that really had zero bearing on his card prices.
Stockton was never an MVP type of guy and never considered by everyone in the game as the best player in the game for one year, let alone ten.
If you want to talk about a basketball card being undervalued, then Bob Cousy's 1951 Berk Ross rookie card is really a card that you need to look at. It is a lower pop with only 146 PSA graded and then another 75 graded with him still intact on the panel with Ashburn. I would say he won a few titles too
IDK, one of George Brett's 1,065 bases empty singles that have the same value as a walk, don't seem very intoxicating either.
Aren't Trout's high value cards #'d, or auto'd, or both? And therefore they benefit from manufactured scarcity? Whereas Stockton's RC's are from an era of mass over production. It's comparing apples to oranges when looking at that alone.
Yup. Julio Rodriguez has several $15,000 cards that sold via straight auction on Ebay in the past 90 days.
Stockton Rookie is in the same set as Barkley and Olajuwon, and Stockton is trailing them only by a little price wise...and he wasn't as good as either or as popular....and Olajuwon won two titles, so there is that.
Based on the BGS 8 Star values that 1948 posted, I am surprised Barkley sells for less than Hakeem. Despite the two titles, I would think Barkley would only be second to MJ. Is the Rockets set more scarce than the 76ers?
I don't think any of the 1984/85 Star has any scarce team sets relative to any of the other teams.
The 1983/84 Star had a few that were considered short print sets. I''m not sure if the short print status has held up since then. The Celtics were tough.
Yes, Barkley has more of a fan appeal than Hakeem does, especially since Barkley is on TV and on commercials even now. I should say one would think this is the case, but he doesn't out sell Olajuwon.
I think it is very early to call Trout’s career and make any comparisons. He likely has 6-8 more years left. If his back stops him now then you would be comparing him to players with short careers like Koufax or Kiner.
Trout can still be a member of the 600 HR club - he could still play in several postseasons and he could add another MVP.
Unless I missed the fact that he retired, I feel like this thread is very premature. Not an NBA guy so hard for me to give a comparison - but at 32 Elway had t done much in the postseason and was 7-6 in the playoffs.
Olajuwon is on the upper pantheon of all time greats, and has a rabid fan base. Not surprised he sells 2nd to MJ.
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I agree about Curry. He is a poor defender. Stockton was a great defender, and he played dirty, like the ERA dictated.
Curry is an all time great and the greatest shooter of all time. Curry also has other unique talents most great players cannot possess, but that is for another discussion.
To pivot slightly Magic wasn't a good defender either. It's very rare that a player can be considered in the GOAT category without being a better defender, similar to Gretzky. Bird was the better defender. To be fair to Magic he had Michael Cooper, who is in the GOAT discussion for defensive players.
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Bobby Knight cut Barkley and Stockton from the loaded Olympic Team. it's a cool story and worth reading. I could only imagine having to face Stockton's team 5 in the scrimmages. It's basically an all defensive team:
" On the first day, Stockton, in white jersey No. 43, was assigned to Team 5 for the evening scrimmages, the third and final session of each day. His teammates included Alvin Robertson from Arkansas, Joe Dumars from McNeese State and a power forward named Karl Malone."
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https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/the-truth-about-stephen-currys-overlooked-defense
People just expect that great offensive players must be poor defenders. This is just not the case with Stephen Curry. Curry is actually a very smart defender and utilizes the floor to force whomever he guards into bad positions. The metrics show he is an outstanding defender as well. There is a reason the Warriors have done as well as they have done and Curry's defense has played its part in that.
Stockton may be the all time leader in assists and steals but the real question is what is his WAR?
PER (Player Efficiency Rating) 21.8. Stockton is 40th all time. Jordan is the all time leader at 27.91.
WinShares 207. Stockton is 6th all time. Jabbar is the leader at 273.
WinShares per 48 Minutes .208. Stockton is 19th all time. Jordan is the leader at .250.
VORP(Value over replacement player) 106.53. Stockton is third all time. Lebron is all time leader at 146.54.
Both WinShares and VORP have longevity as a key element...hence Stockton's impressive rating.
I don't know enough about basketball to know whether Stockton is fairly rated or not, but I think a better comparison than Trout is Ken Griffey. Though Griffey is overrated. Griffey was a great player, but he really was finished after 2000. Barry Bonds had the kind of career that everyone, me included, thought Griffey would have, but Griffey has the hobby acclaim. And yet his Upper Deck rookies go for comparative pocket change. The thing is, with Griffey rookies, you'd expect to get one out of every $100 box or so (Stockton you'd expect three or four. Trout rookies simply don't come like that.
If you don't believe Stockton is terribly underrated, then a good comparison is Jim Thome. Despite 600 home runs, Thome is never really considered among the elite. His Upper Deck rookie, of the same era as Stockton, can be found all day for $40, Bowman twice that.
Rose is nowhere close to the top 10.
Ruth
Gehrig
Mantle
Mays
Williams
Pujols
Bonds
Cobb
Aaron
Wagner
ARod
Musial
That's 12 guys who are light years ahead of Rose. We haven't gotten to the guys who are "just" a lot better than Pete.
Rose is nowhere near the top 10.
He played hard, and played for a long time. He had 2 great years 1968 and 1969.
No power to speak of. Lifetime SLG a very average .409.
Probably the most over rated player in the history of sports.
Respectfully, I disagree. Curry routinely gets torched, he is small and is very easy to shoot over, back down in the post, etc. He has been better later in his career. He has gotten much stronger and has learned to anticipate well, jumping passing lames, etc. but that is not what makes someone a good all around defender. An all around defender can square up and defend. Anyone can jump passing lanes.
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I think a better comparison to Stockton would be Billy Williams, both great players, neither won a Championship and you can get their cards pretty reasonable compared to some of their contemporaries.
I think Fred Mcgriff is another decent baseball comparison to Stockton.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
the last two posts typify my original analogy. Mcgriff and BW were very good players and there cards are ok, but Fred and BW will never be confused for top 25 or so players, neither holds any MLB major stat record.
I see Trout as a measurable player to Stockton. Trout isn't one of the top 25 baseball players of all-time, but hes had some great seasons. Stockton has incredible stats, was a team player, made his teammates better and a great leader on and off the court. Trout is very similar.
However, i bet there are 100 or more trout card that would sale for than the 1988 Fleer Stockton PSA 10, and that makes some sense based on serialed cards, but the price difference is just too remarkable for me understand.
It's too early to know what Trout's career totals are going to be. He could get hurt in the next game and his career be over, or he could have 5 (or more) great seasons.
If he can hit well for 5 more years, he is going to get some consideration as one of the all time greats.
You seem to be ignoring the MVPs he's won, Stockton was NEVER considered the best player in any year. Trout has been 1st or 2nd FIVE TIMES.
Another problem is comparing different sports. Baseball has always been king, many more players collected heavily.
The other thing I see you consistently ignore is the fact that many people collect who/what they like regardless of what to "should" be collected.
People just don't care about steals or assists very much.
Trout is also a current player in people can watch him right now. Lots of people who aren't sports fanatics probably never heard of Stockton. His cards are bargains, but if nobody wants them now, why be would there be interest in a few years?
I picked Killebrew because he was the best player on the local team. Why would I collect Mantle? Didn't really know who he was, and when I found out, I didn't care.
It was FUN collecting Killebrew.
People aren't always investing, sometimes they just like their guy.
Like JoeBanzi said, Trout is current. Also,, his cards have the element of speculation to them still and they are limited in production...some of the same reasons why Julio Rodriguez cards sell for $15,000.
Who?
Of that era...
Why isn't 2x HOFer Chris Mullin ever mentioned with the all-time greats?
Why isn't Tom Chambers, a 20,000pt scorer, in the HOF, while English, Dantley, Richmond are?
Why is there no mention of Mark Price's peak years of his short career?
Why are FIBA HOFer Detlef Schrempf RCs in the common pile?
Yesterday's players are today's commentators and these guys don't give proper respect to certain players.
Anybody remember Isaiah Thomas comments on the Celtics' best player and the reigning, three-time MVP at the time: ''Larry Bird is a very, very good basketball player. I think he's an exceptional talent. But I'd have to agree with Rodman, if he was black he'd be just another good guy.”
Just saw a PSA7 88 Fleer Rodman RC go for $15.
Julio Rodriguez from Seattle Mariners. ROY last year.
Ok, I will keep an eye out.
Thanks.
John Stockton card prices in a nutshell:
DURING the 1992 Olympics, Stockton and his family walked around Barcelona unimpeded because no one knew who he was, despite mobbing all of the other Dream Team members. This includes an encounter where he talked took a woman wearing a shirt with his face on it - and didn't recognize him.
OK, but Williams was a lot better than McGriff. If Trout is done today, like never plays again, he's had a better career than Griffey or DiMaggio. If he's not top 25 of all time by some longevity measures, he will be very soon. I just think your post will look very silly ten years from now.
10 years from now? I'm betting on the under.