How many people collect Mexican coins around the globe?

TheGoonies1985

I know no one knows exactly but would like to see your estimates. Are there more now than say 10-20 years ago?

KSorbo

I suppose it depends on what you mean by “collecting Mexican coins”. Judging by the recent prices of popular issues such as the Caballito, there must be more people interested at least in those specific issues. Personally I have purchased a number of Mexican Colonial coins during the past several years, which is something I wouldn’t have been able to do prior to the advent of online sales. Not sure if that qualifies me as a “collector” but I sure do like Mexican coins. I’m sure there are many others like me that have boosted the market.

TheGoonies1985

I mean people who collect specific series like say 8 reales 1732-1771. I guess I mean focused Mexican coin collectors.

Cougar1978

Mexican coins are a major part of my world material. The 1oz Silver Libertad a favorite. Also acquire 2nd Republic pieces when quality piece / deal there.

Sapyx

Spanish-Mexican coins are very popular here in Australia, as they were the legal tender currency in the early colonies of New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land. The "Spanish dollar" in particular is collected as being a member of the "Proclamation" series, given a legal tender value of five shillings. Australian collectors can be relied on to pay well above the market value elsewhere in the world, for Dos Mundos and pillar dollar types (we like the Dos Mundos coins because they're "the first coins ever made with a map of Australia on them"). Australia's first ever coins, the Holey Dollar and Dump, were produced by mutilating Spanish-American dollars; a large majority of the 300 or so known surviving Holey Dollars are struck on Mexican host coins.

The coins of independent Mexico are not so popular here; their coins almost certainly circulated here, but as they weren't specifically mentioned by name in the various government proclamations, they are omitted from the list of "must-haves". To us, Mexico is just another country on the far side of the world. World coin collectors will include them, but you won't find any specialists, and Mexican coins won't command much of a premium.

There is one notable exception: in 1914, the German WWI gunboat SMS Emden was sunk by the Australian warship HMAS Sydney, in shallow waters off an island near Australia. Several thousand Mexican dollars were salvaged from the wreck of the Emden. 1000 of them had "Sydney-Emden" pins attached to them and turned into unofficial war medals, given to the victorious sailors from the Sydney; the remainder stayed as coins and were sold to the public as souvenirs of the battle. The medals are highly prized of course, but even the regular Mexican dollars with proven Emden provenance and paperwork are highly, highly valuable on the collectors market here.

1984worldcoins

I have lots, including sets, off metal strikes, mint errors, medals, both graded and nongraded, circulated, not circulated, love them, interesting stuff. All 1984 or very close.

bidask

@Sapyx said:
Spanish-Mexican coins are very popular here in Australia, as they were the legal tender currency in the early colonies of New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land. The "Spanish dollar" in particular is collected as being a member of the "Proclamation" series, given a legal tender value of five shillings. Australian collectors can be relied on to pay well above the market value elsewhere in the world, for Dos Mundos and pillar dollar types (we like the Dos Mundos coins because they're "the first coins ever made with a map of Australia on them"). Australia's first ever coins, the Holey Dollar and Dump, were produced by mutilating Spanish-American dollars; a large majority of the 300 or so known surviving Holey Dollars are struck on Mexican host coins.

The coins of independent Mexico are not so popular here; their coins almost certainly circulated here, but as they weren't specifically mentioned by name in the various government proclamations, they are omitted from the list of "must-haves". To us, Mexico is just another country on the far side of the world. World coin collectors will include them, but you won't find any specialists, and Mexican coins won't command much of a premium.

There is one notable exception: in 1914, the German WWI gunboat SMS Emden was sunk by the Australian warship HMAS Sydney, in shallow waters off an island near Australia. Several thousand Mexican dollars were salvaged from the wreck of the Emden. 1000 of them had "Sydney-Emden" pins attached to them and turned into unofficial war medals, given to the victorious sailors from the Sydney; the remainder stayed as coins and were sold to the public as souvenirs of the battle. The medals are highly prized of course, but even the regular Mexican dollars with proven Emden provenance and paperwork are highly, highly valuable on the collectors market here.

Very interesting history …thanks for sharing

I found this

https://www.numismaticnews.net/archive/story-of-emden-told-by-collectibles

Sergey74

From Russia. In the main i collect the coins of revolutions in silver, "coins of liberty". Not enough freedom in life, seek for some freedom in the coins. Not many times ago i have found for myself the coins of Southern America. You know, this hot men liked revolutions... hard history, many countries, Mexico is one of them. Very interesting early coins were in the countries and not only early. Sorry for bad English and peace for everyone.

John Conduitt

In Europe I think there are very few, at least outside of Spain. Spanish colonial cobs are popular, but I don't think many people specialise in them. Anything else is no different to coins from any other country.

TheGoonies1985

I had figured a few hundred around the world could be wrong.

sellitstore

If there are 25-50,000 U.S. collectors and only 1% of them collect some Mexican coins, then there are 250-500 Mexican collectors in the U.S. aside from any that might collect only Mexican coins. I'd guess that the percentage of Mexican collectors here would be at least 2-4% of all coin collectors translating to 500-2000 Mexican collectors in the U.S. That's my best guess for the U.S. alone, at least 500-2000 Mexican coin collectors.

Canadian coins have always been somewhat more popular here as they circulated and still circulate in the U.S. to some extent. I got a Canadian cent here last week 300 miles from the border and there are more of them the closer that one gets. In place like Michigan and New England, there are more Canadian coin collectors. I know that Mexican coins were quite popular in California during the 1960s and 1970s and suspect that they still are in places like Texas and California where many of Mexican ancestry reside.

coinkat

I really have no idea... and that will not influence what I choose to collect. I like Mexican coinage- 18th, 19th, 20th Century and that makes little difference. If others choose to collect and if not... well... hopefully they found something better.

HalfDimeDude

Cougar1978

Low Pop Mexican slabbed investment grade coins a major part of my RCI. Addicted to chasing these. So under valued vs US.

rec78

There has always been and always will be many Mexican coin collectors. Being said, it would take great effort and may be near impossible to even collect all the 19th and 20th century Mexican coins and varieties. 19th Century-forget it. I don't know if anyone has ever even attempted to complete a Mexican coin collection from 1801-1900. A lifelong effort to say the least!

SaorAlba

I collect certain issues.

WCC

It's my inference from what I have seen on coin auctions that cob, pillar and Cap &Ray 8R in that order are at least somewhat widely collected. There are millions of these coins, so someone has to own it. Most of the demand though seems to come from US based collectors. US collectors are used to paying higher prices due to the cost of US coins and are both willing and able to outbid (most) everyone else.

bidask

US collectors are used to paying higher prices due to the cost of US coins and are both willing and able to outbid (most) everyone else

Yes I agree the only way to win a coin at auction is to outbid everyone else ….

pruebas

@WCC said:
It's my inference from what I have seen on coin auctions that cob, pillar and Cap &Ray 8R in that order are at least somewhat widely collected. There are millions of these coins, so someone has to own it. Most of the demand though seems to come from US based collectors. US collectors are used to paying higher prices due to the cost of US coins and are both willing and able to outbid (most) everyone else.

With respect to Resplandores, all of Mexico, USA, and China are the biggest markets. Both USA and China on the top end, and Mexico on the low end.

Value wise, the USA is probably the biggest. Volume wise, it’s probably Mexico or China.

WCC

@pruebas said:

Value wise, the USA is probably the biggest.

Yes, that's what I see most since I'm not looking on eBay or anyone's local coin shop.

WCC

@bidask said:
US collectors are used to paying higher prices due to the cost of US coins and are both willing and able to outbid (most) everyone else

Yes I agree the only way to win a coin at auction is to outbid everyone else ….

That wasn't my point.

The reason there is very limited collecting of US coinage by non-US collectors is because they seldom are going to pay more for coins from somewhere else of any "meaningful" value costing so much more than their own. Some foreign collectors may do this for financial reasons but if they do, it has to be minimal. This should be obvious, though US collecting doesn't want to hear it.

US collectors have no problem outbidding everyone else buying non-US coinage because the price level is so much lower versus US coins, generally, not for every coin. That's why many posting on this side of the message boards do it. They started collecting US coins like I did and switched. It's possible to buy much scarcer, far more interesting coins for the same price or much less.

I see this all the time in my primary interest and given the number of coins from the same or related series I see posted here, its apparent other forum members outbid everyone else too regularly. In my case, I'm hardly rich and the prices I pay by US standards aren't even high. I've lost out on a low number but won the vast majority I've known about.

isamucoinandcurrency

I love Mexican coins.

bidask

@isamucoinandcurrency said:
I love Mexican coins.

I love that coin as well !

TwoKopeiki

At the last count, there were 3,141,592 collectors in the world identifying as collecting Mexican coins.

TheGoonies1985

@TwoKopeiki said:
At the last count, there were 3,141,592 collectors in the world identifying as collecting Mexican coins.

Hahaha!!!

John Conduitt

@WCC said:

@bidask said:
US collectors are used to paying higher prices due to the cost of US coins and are both willing and able to outbid (most) everyone else

Yes I agree the only way to win a coin at auction is to outbid everyone else ….

That wasn't my point.

The reason there is very limited collecting of US coinage by non-US collectors is because they seldom are going to pay more for coins from somewhere else of any "meaningful" value costing so much more than their own. Some foreign collectors may do this for financial reasons but if they do, it has to be minimal. This should be obvious, though US collecting doesn't want to hear it.

US collectors have no problem outbidding everyone else buying non-US coinage because the price level is so much lower versus US coins, generally, not for every coin. That's why many posting on this side of the message boards do it. They started collecting US coins like I did and switched. It's possible to buy much scarcer, far more interesting coins for the same price or much less.

I see this all the time in my primary interest and given the number of coins from the same or related series I see posted here, its apparent other forum members outbid everyone else too regularly. In my case, I'm hardly rich and the prices I pay by US standards aren't even high. I've lost out on a low number but won the vast majority I've known about.

Yes let's be honest, US coins are much more interesting to US collectors than they are to everyone else. There are not many with any history and if someone likes a design, they can get one of the very many produced that doesn't happen to have some tiny difference that makes it expensive. Non-US collectors are not going to try to fill a Whitman album of Morgan dollars. They're all the same and just not a particularly attractive coin, so why collect something that's not rare, beautiful or inexpensive, and to which they have no personal connection?

With US collectors taking a big interest in Mexican coins, presumably because of the proximity of the country, they've exported this situation to Mexico. Why would a European or Asian collect Mexican coins, which are all modern and generally pricier than coins from elsewhere, and to which, again, they have no personal connection?

Project Numismatics

I find the motifs and imagery on Mexican coinage fascinating. Reflective of the values and culture. Certain countries just seem to prioritize coin design - it’s art.

WCC

@John Conduitt said:

Yes let's be honest, US coins are much more interesting to US collectors than they are to everyone else. There are not many with any history and if someone likes a design, they can get one of the very many produced that doesn't happen to have some tiny difference that makes it expensive. Non-US collectors are not going to try to fill a Whitman album of Morgan dollars. They're all the same and just not a particularly attractive coin, so why collect something that's not rare, beautiful or inexpensive, and to which they have no personal connection?

The more desirable US coin types are too expensive to non-US collectors for what it is as a collectible. The gap has been closing but it's still "big". Many non-US collectors (especially from Europe) seem to collect coinage from everywhere else (outside their home country) to some extent as "world coins", but I have observed virtually not at all for US. I see some US coinage in non-US auctions, but almost never a high-grade expensive coin in TPG plastic. I've seen older circulated US type, but my inference is that if it's owned by local collectors and not an American, it must have been bought a long time ago at a fraction of current prices. There is no market for it locally at the US market value, not even close. I see circulated low priced 20th century US coinage elsewhere (when I used to look) somewhat regularly, but that's most of it, by a substantial margin. If US coins were a lot cheaper (as in at discounts of 50% at least to well over 90% depending upon the coin), I believe non-US collectors would buy it a lot more.

@John Conduitt said:

With US collectors taking a big interest in Mexican coins, presumably because of the proximity of the country, they've exported this situation to Mexico. Why would a European or Asian collect Mexican coins, which are all modern and generally pricier than coins from elsewhere, and to which, again, they have no personal connection?

Yes, on both counts.

Review of foreign auctions shows that collectors overwhelmingly prefer their "home" coinage over all others, regardless of where they are located. US collectors prefer US coins and others prefer theirs. I also saw this with South Africa based collectors when this coinage was my primary interest, up to 2010. Coins are physical objects (not financial instrument "investments") where there is no market for the vast majority locally at full value, making it unappealing to buy and sell in many or most countries. That's one reason I gave up South African coins. It came to the point where I had to buy at the inflated local price but then sell at the lower international price. This is something most US collectors seem to mostly ignore or not even know. It's not like the US which is the primary market for many world coins and probably the primary one for the majority of expensive coins in TPG holders.

Second, US collector preference for TPG has also priced out, not just the home country collectors, but also third country collectors out of the best quality non-US coinage in many instances. If this is what you are saying, it's absolutely correct. There is no such thing as a world coin market. Some coins are far more widely collected than others, but it's a tiny fraction above nominal prices and still not equally liquid.

pruebas

@John Conduitt said:

With US collectors taking a big interest in Mexican coins, presumably because of the proximity of the country, they've exported this situation to Mexico. Why would a European or Asian collect Mexican coins, which are all modern and generally pricier than coins from elsewhere, and to which, again, they have no personal connection?

I hate to add to this thread, because the OP will probably just come along in a fit of fury and change the title to “Delete” and it will be lost to future readers.

Mexico has been minting coins since 1535, hardly modern by any standard, but yes, not ancient either.

And Mexican crowns have been used worldwide as trade coins for several centuries, including and especially in Asia, so there is understandable interest there.

As to North American interest, they were the first coins of North America, and as such, worthy of study and interest.

TheGoonies1985

@pruebas said:

@John Conduitt said:

With US collectors taking a big interest in Mexican coins, presumably because of the proximity of the country, they've exported this situation to Mexico. Why would a European or Asian collect Mexican coins, which are all modern and generally pricier than coins from elsewhere, and to which, again, they have no personal connection?

I hate to add to this thread, because the OP will probably just come along in a fit of fury and change the title to “Delete” and it will be lost to future readers.

Mexico has been minting coins since 1535, hardly modern by any standard, but yes, not ancient either.

And Mexican crowns have been used worldwide as trade coins for several centuries, including and especially in Asia, so there is understandable interest there.

As to North American interest, they were the first coins of North America, and as such, worthy of study and interest.

I will not delete this topic so relax. And stop been so judgemental your not peoples parent here take a chill pill. Stop trying to act like an almighty guide that decides for others what they can and cannot do here on the forum. It is not YOUR forum and we are not your disciples either. We don't have to drink your cool-aid.

TheGoonies1985

Pruebas:

Me and you are NOT friends so get over it who cares. Such is life no big deal in my book. Get over the fact I don't want to lick your feet and I can walk alone and collect how I wish.

How about I leave you alone and you leave me alone like 2 adults moving forward it is pretty simple I would think. This is not a job were you are my boss. This is my hobby I don't need you as a ''boss'' watching over me aka micro managing.

John Conduitt

@pruebas said:

@John Conduitt said:

Mexico has been minting coins since 1535, hardly modern by any standard, but yes, not ancient either.

And Mexican crowns have been used worldwide as trade coins for several centuries, including and especially in Asia, so there is understandable interest there.

As to North American interest, they were the first coins of North America, and as such, worthy of study and interest.

The 'modern era' began around 1500, or 1485 in the UK, so they are all modern as opposed to medieval or ancient. That doesn't mean they can't be historically interesting, of course. Latin American coins certainly have a lot of interesting history.

bidask

So I went this past weekend TNA coin show in Arlington Texas .

My real purpose for doing so was to accept an invitation to dinner hosted by Mike Dunnigan at his country club in Fort Worth the Shady Oak where Ben Hogan played and where the Colonial golf tournament is held .

Mike was very gracious and generous in the dinner party he threw for about 15-20 persons there ……all Mexican coin collectors specialists/ or dealers .

Swordfish, shrimp cocktail , yummy seafood gumbo souppa , tender steak and pork chops …. salad and desert bar and more …open bar.

I purposely sat next to Mike and by the end of the evening felt I knew him a lot better even though I have been doing business with him at least 8 years .

We are both passionate about coins .
I can relate to that !

Mike started collecting at age 5 and became a full time dealer at age 16.
He has been going to all the ANA ‘s since 1965 and has not missed one of them.

Needless to say he has build many great collections of Mexican and Spanish colonial coinage .

His clients trust him so much that when it came time to sell ( or if the owner passed away ) the family would call on Mike to help with this effort .

Thus Mike has built a reputation of not only sourcing great coins for serious collectors but he himself has an astonishing collection that he shared with me in general …..however probably inappropriate for me to talk about .

He is a no nonsense dealer but if you’re a serious about collecting Mexican coins he certainly is a go/to dealer that could help .

I have often paid up for the coins I wanted but was happy to get them from Mike .

Now I find myself sometimes bidding against him in auctions. 🙃

That’s when I really pay up 😎

Bjorn

From what I see here in the UK, there aren't many collectors who specialize in Mexican coins, but there are a number of collectors who avidly pursue the more general Spanish colonial silver coinages - the cobs are likely the most popular, then the pillar dollars and finally the portrait coins. This of course will include some Mexico issues, as well as those from Peru and elsewhere. Both regular and sea-salvage coins are collected.

TheGoonies1985

@Bjorn said:
From what I see here in the UK, there aren't many collectors who specialize in Mexican coins, but there are a number of collectors who avidly pursue the more general Spanish colonial silver coinages - the cobs are likely the most popular, then the pillar dollars and finally the portrait coins. This of course will include some Mexico issues, as well as those from Peru and elsewhere. Both regular and sea-salvage coins are collected.

You guys in the UK have a great history in coinage I can understand why not many would collect outside of your country. If I lived in the UK I would most likely collect coinage from there. It was my 2nd choice before I decided to go with Latin American coinage.

I live in Canada our history is a short one and the coinage only starts in 1858 (we had tokens before then). I collected them for almost 2 decades but got bored as I aged there was something missing. The history was not as ''fun'' as say Mexico. I would never go back to collecting Canadian coins. Latin American just has it all in my opinion same I would say for coins from the UK.

SoCalBigMark

That 2 peso is among the nicest I've seen.

isamucoinandcurrency

Thank you. I just got it back from NGC this month. I am sending in another just as nice shortly.