It is when you consider that it's 25% on all batted balls, which includes righties nobody shifts against and guys on base where you also don't shift.
I'm sure you'd call getting a hit to be "standard" in baseball. That occurs less than 25% of the time in MLB.
Something occuring 25% of the time isnt standard. And right handed hitters were getting shifted against in the MLB. The minors, college, foreign leagues all sifted significantly less than MLB who was basically doing it to some extent on every batter
It is when you consider that it's 25% on all batted balls, which includes righties nobody shifts against and guys on base where you also don't shift.
I'm sure you'd call getting a hit to be "standard" in baseball. That occurs less than 25% of the time in MLB.
Something occuring 25% of the time isnt standard. And right handed hitters were getting shifted against in the MLB. The minors, college, foreign leagues all sifted significantly less than MLB who was basically doing it to some extent on every batter
In that same article, MLB shifted 38% of the time. So a third less in the minors.
What is your exact cutoff for when something becomes standard?
It is when you consider that it's 25% on all batted balls, which includes righties nobody shifts against and guys on base where you also don't shift.
I'm sure you'd call getting a hit to be "standard" in baseball. That occurs less than 25% of the time in MLB.
Something occuring 25% of the time isnt standard. And right handed hitters were getting shifted against in the MLB. The minors, college, foreign leagues all sifted significantly less than MLB who was basically doing it to some extent on every batter
In that same article, MLB shifted 38% of the time. So a third less in the minors.
What is your exact cutoff for when something becomes standard?
I would define something as standard as when its the norm, not when it just happens sometimes.
That article is also from 2019 where the shift had increased in MLB from then until this year. Part of the problem with trying to come up with percentages is you can change them by how you define a shift. You dont need 7 guys on one side to be a shift. The majority of MLB at bats has a middle infilder that was basically standing on second if not on the other side of it. Thats not going to change other than they have to stay on their side.
@craig44 said:
the win is when you bunt against the shift enough that they have to STOP shifting you. If you start bunting every at bat and get on base 80% of the time, they will have to stop shifting, then you can stop bunting. When they notice the trend and start shifting you again, start bunting and the cycle repeats.
All I can say is in the last several years in games I've watched, in the rare instances where a guy tries to bunt, they fail miserably. They have no idea of how to do it.
Additionally, I see guys continue to try to pull the outside pitch against the shift, generally resulting in a ground ball to shortstop if it's a right handed batter.
Once in a great while, I see a hitter "go the other way" and get a hit or at least hit the ball hard to the opposite field.
It looks to me like 80(?)% of the hitters are trying to hit home runs and so the defense shifts on them.
Joe Mauer won three batting titles hitting the ball the other way and all they talked about was that he should have been pulling the ball more. That wasn't his strength. Defenses didn't shift on Mauer.
I'm not a fan of seeing 5 guys on one side of second base on every at bat, but if the hitters are all trying to pull every pitch, it's hard to blame the defense.
I blame analytics for all this. Not much I can say if the geniuses have decided that's how the game is going to be played.
I'm VERY happy about the pitch clock. The thing that was keeping me from enjoying the games was the ridiculous amount of time the pitchers were taking to throw the ball AND the batters stepping out between every pitch.
I'm looking forward to baseball more than I have in several years!
It looks like most guys are trying to hit homeruns because thats what theyre trying to do lol.
The problem with the pitch clock is the length of it. 15 seconds with no one on base just isnt enough time. 20 or 25 seconds would have been more reasonable. 15 seconds is going to end up having implications especially later in the season.
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It's more than enough time. Most of these pitchers only have 2 pitches they use anyway. All the messing around is just ridiculous. The batter doesn't need to step out after every pitch either.
Back before it became a competition between the pitcher and batter to see who could waste the most time, it wasn't a problem.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@craig44 said:
the win is when you bunt against the shift enough that they have to STOP shifting you. If you start bunting every at bat and get on base 80% of the time, they will have to stop shifting, then you can stop bunting. When they notice the trend and start shifting you again, start bunting and the cycle repeats.
All I can say is in the last several years in games I've watched, in the rare instances where a guy tries to bunt, they fail miserably. They have no idea of how to do it.
Additionally, I see guys continue to try to pull the outside pitch against the shift, generally resulting in a ground ball to shortstop if it's a right handed batter.
Once in a great while, I see a hitter "go the other way" and get a hit or at least hit the ball hard to the opposite field.
It looks to me like 80(?)% of the hitters are trying to hit home runs and so the defense shifts on them.
Joe Mauer won three batting titles hitting the ball the other way and all they talked about was that he should have been pulling the ball more. That wasn't his strength. Defenses didn't shift on Mauer.
I'm not a fan of seeing 5 guys on one side of second base on every at bat, but if the hitters are all trying to pull every pitch, it's hard to blame the defense.
I blame analytics for all this. Not much I can say if the geniuses have decided that's how the game is going to be played.
I'm VERY happy about the pitch clock. The thing that was keeping me from enjoying the games was the ridiculous amount of time the pitchers were taking to throw the ball AND the batters stepping out between every pitch.
I'm looking forward to baseball more than I have in several years!
It looks like most guys are trying to hit homeruns because thats what theyre trying to do lol.
The problem with the pitch clock is the length of it. 15 seconds with no one on base just isnt enough time. 20 or 25 seconds would have been more reasonable. 15 seconds is going to end up having implications especially later in the season.
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It's more than enough time. Most of these pitchers only have 2 pitches they use anyway. All the messing around is just ridiculous. The batter doesn't need to step out after every pitch either.
Back before it became a competition between the pitcher and batter to see who could waste the most time, it wasn't a problem.
15 seconds is not more than enough time neither is 7 seconds for a batter. No one is in a competition to waste time. Batters do need to move between pitches to keep muscles lose unless you just want to watch everyone K all day long.
Pitchers worked slower back in the day and didnt rush. It was never a problem, it wasnt a problem now either. 25 seconds would be long enough to not impact things and prevent guys from just standing on the mound while someone gets lose in the bullpen. Even college that plays 3 months with one start a week has 20 seconds meanwhile pro pitchers will have 15 seconds starting games 2 a week for 6 months get 15 seconds unless someone gets on?
Dont be surprised when injuries happen or when pitchers and even batter start just forfeiting the ballstrike to get some time to regroup.
Dont forget either that this is just going to lead to more commercials. 3 hour game shortened to 2:30 add 15 minutes of commercials and now a 2:45 game that was "shortened"
15 seconds is not more than enough time neither is 7 seconds for a batter. No one is in a competition to waste time. Batters do need to move between pitches to keep muscles lose unless you just want to watch everyone K all day long.
15 seconds is plenty of time. 7 seconds is more than enough time to reset yourself after swinging at a pitch. If people can solve a Rubik's cube in waaaaay under 7 seconds, a batter can set their feet.
Pitchers worked slower back in the day and didnt rush. It was never a problem, it wasnt a problem now either.
Pitchers absolutely worked faster back in the day and hitters stepped out a lot less.
Just go watch Mark Fidrych's famous MNB game from 1976. Both starters work fast:
Dont forget either that this is just going to lead to more commercials. 3 hour game shortened to 2:30 add 15 minutes of commercials and now a 2:45 game that was "shortened"
Where exactly would the extra 15 minutes of commercials come from? Longer breaks between innings?
I call bologna on 15 seconds is not long enough between pitches. And batters do not need to do yoga poses or calisthenics between pitches to stay loose. Those are excuses. Watch some footage of old games and the pace is much faster and those guys did not drop from exhaustion or cramped muscles. It is nothing more than a change of pace that players will grow accustomed to.
@craig44 said:
I call bologna on 15 seconds is not long enough between pitches. And batters do not need to do yoga poses or calisthenics between pitches to stay loose. Those are excuses. Watch some footage of old games and the pace is much faster and those guys did not drop from exhaustion or cramped muscles. It is nothing more than a change of pace that players will grow accustomed to.
It's not long enough when youre on pitch 80 in August and its 100 degrees on the field and its your second start of the week with over a 100 innings already.
Dont be surprised if injuries increase, ERAs spike later in the season, and you start seeing pitchers just take the ball to get more time to catch their breath
It was plenty of time when pitchers were actually expected to pitch late into games, now they only have to get through the lineup two times.
This is the best rule I have seen in 50+ years of watching baseball.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@JoeBanzai said:
It was plenty of time when pitchers were actually expected to pitch late into games, now they only have to get through the lineup two times.
This is the best rule I have seen in 50+ years of watching baseball.
@craig44 said:
I call bologna on 15 seconds is not long enough between pitches. And batters do not need to do yoga poses or calisthenics between pitches to stay loose. Those are excuses. Watch some footage of old games and the pace is much faster and those guys did not drop from exhaustion or cramped muscles. It is nothing more than a change of pace that players will grow accustomed to.
It's not long enough when youre on pitch 80 in August and its 100 degrees on the field and its your second start of the week with over a 100 innings already.
Dont be surprised if injuries increase, ERAs spike later in the season, and you start seeing pitchers just take the ball to get more time to catch their breath
Pitchers will adapt. they will have to. In fact, it may lead to a swing back to where we actually have pitchers again and not throwers. Modern pitchers seem to have taken to the throw it as hard as they can and location/movement are way far down on the list of desirables. Maybe then we will have starters go longer than 4-5 innings. It would also mean that fewer pitchers would be throwing 97 MPH. In years past, that is why guys like Seaver, Gibson, Ryan, Clemens, Johnson were such unicorns. Ones who could go 8 or 9 innings while throwing high 90s heat to end the game. Most dont have the arm for that, then or now.
@craig44 said:
I call bologna on 15 seconds is not long enough between pitches. And batters do not need to do yoga poses or calisthenics between pitches to stay loose. Those are excuses. Watch some footage of old games and the pace is much faster and those guys did not drop from exhaustion or cramped muscles. It is nothing more than a change of pace that players will grow accustomed to.
It's not long enough when youre on pitch 80 in August and its 100 degrees on the field and its your second start of the week with over a 100 innings already.
Dont be surprised if injuries increase, ERAs spike later in the season, and you start seeing pitchers just take the ball to get more time to catch their breath
Pitchers will adapt. they will have to. In fact, it may lead to a swing back to where we actually have pitchers again and not throwers. Modern pitchers seem to have taken to the throw it as hard as they can and location/movement are way far down on the list of desirables. Maybe then we will have starters go longer than 4-5 innings. It would also mean that fewer pitchers would be throwing 97 MPH. In years past, that is why guys like Seaver, Gibson, Ryan, Clemens, Johnson were such unicorns. Ones who could go 8 or 9 innings while throwing high 90s heat to end the game. Most dont have the arm for that, then or now.
Modern max effort pitchers pitch that way because thats what gets rewarded. Teams would rather get 5 max effort innings over 7 or 8 pitching to contact ones. Strikeouts play a large role in arbitration numbers for pitchers too. Its unlikely to see any of that change. Teams dont stretch guys out enough and all the analytics saying never let a guy face the order for the third time like when the Rays pulled Snell in the playoffs even though he was shoving with a low pitch count. If anything that 5 or 6 innings will probably now be more like 3 or 4 as they gas faster and we just see more pitching changes.
There's just no reason why the pitch clock should be 5 seconds faster than college. College even gives you one warning and it stops as spoon as their motion starts. Its pretty loosely enforced and works perfectly fine. No one wants to watch the umpires calling time several times a game to call balls or strikes. Just wait until a game ends on a called strike because the batter didnt get set in time. Its happened in college this year, the game had a big league fortunately but still leaves a bad taste in your mouth
Couldnt even get through day one without an umpire show with the rule. McNeil got called for a strike because Alonso "didnt get back to first fast enough"
I'm not against it overall, I love college baseball and they have a good balance with it. I'm just against the times they set and umpires looking to make calls on it to be the stars of a game
Comments
It is when you consider that it's 25% on all batted balls, which includes righties nobody shifts against and guys on base where you also don't shift.
I'm sure you'd call getting a hit to be "standard" in baseball. That occurs less than 25% of the time in MLB.
Something occuring 25% of the time isnt standard. And right handed hitters were getting shifted against in the MLB. The minors, college, foreign leagues all sifted significantly less than MLB who was basically doing it to some extent on every batter
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
In that same article, MLB shifted 38% of the time. So a third less in the minors.
What is your exact cutoff for when something becomes standard?
I would define something as standard as when its the norm, not when it just happens sometimes.
That article is also from 2019 where the shift had increased in MLB from then until this year. Part of the problem with trying to come up with percentages is you can change them by how you define a shift. You dont need 7 guys on one side to be a shift. The majority of MLB at bats has a middle infilder that was basically standing on second if not on the other side of it. Thats not going to change other than they have to stay on their side.
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
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It's more than enough time. Most of these pitchers only have 2 pitches they use anyway. All the messing around is just ridiculous. The batter doesn't need to step out after every pitch either.
Back before it became a competition between the pitcher and batter to see who could waste the most time, it wasn't a problem.
15 seconds is not more than enough time neither is 7 seconds for a batter. No one is in a competition to waste time. Batters do need to move between pitches to keep muscles lose unless you just want to watch everyone K all day long.
Pitchers worked slower back in the day and didnt rush. It was never a problem, it wasnt a problem now either. 25 seconds would be long enough to not impact things and prevent guys from just standing on the mound while someone gets lose in the bullpen. Even college that plays 3 months with one start a week has 20 seconds meanwhile pro pitchers will have 15 seconds starting games 2 a week for 6 months get 15 seconds unless someone gets on?
Dont be surprised when injuries happen or when pitchers and even batter start just forfeiting the ballstrike to get some time to regroup.
Dont forget either that this is just going to lead to more commercials. 3 hour game shortened to 2:30 add 15 minutes of commercials and now a 2:45 game that was "shortened"
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
15 seconds is plenty of time. 7 seconds is more than enough time to reset yourself after swinging at a pitch. If people can solve a Rubik's cube in waaaaay under 7 seconds, a batter can set their feet.
Pitchers absolutely worked faster back in the day and hitters stepped out a lot less.
Just go watch Mark Fidrych's famous MNB game from 1976. Both starters work fast:
Where exactly would the extra 15 minutes of commercials come from? Longer breaks between innings?
I call bologna on 15 seconds is not long enough between pitches. And batters do not need to do yoga poses or calisthenics between pitches to stay loose. Those are excuses. Watch some footage of old games and the pace is much faster and those guys did not drop from exhaustion or cramped muscles. It is nothing more than a change of pace that players will grow accustomed to.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It's not long enough when youre on pitch 80 in August and its 100 degrees on the field and its your second start of the week with over a 100 innings already.
Dont be surprised if injuries increase, ERAs spike later in the season, and you start seeing pitchers just take the ball to get more time to catch their breath
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
It was plenty of time when pitchers were actually expected to pitch late into games, now they only have to get through the lineup two times.
This is the best rule I have seen in 50+ years of watching baseball.
This 1000%!!!! I couldnt agree more.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Pitchers will adapt. they will have to. In fact, it may lead to a swing back to where we actually have pitchers again and not throwers. Modern pitchers seem to have taken to the throw it as hard as they can and location/movement are way far down on the list of desirables. Maybe then we will have starters go longer than 4-5 innings. It would also mean that fewer pitchers would be throwing 97 MPH. In years past, that is why guys like Seaver, Gibson, Ryan, Clemens, Johnson were such unicorns. Ones who could go 8 or 9 innings while throwing high 90s heat to end the game. Most dont have the arm for that, then or now.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Modern max effort pitchers pitch that way because thats what gets rewarded. Teams would rather get 5 max effort innings over 7 or 8 pitching to contact ones. Strikeouts play a large role in arbitration numbers for pitchers too. Its unlikely to see any of that change. Teams dont stretch guys out enough and all the analytics saying never let a guy face the order for the third time like when the Rays pulled Snell in the playoffs even though he was shoving with a low pitch count. If anything that 5 or 6 innings will probably now be more like 3 or 4 as they gas faster and we just see more pitching changes.
There's just no reason why the pitch clock should be 5 seconds faster than college. College even gives you one warning and it stops as spoon as their motion starts. Its pretty loosely enforced and works perfectly fine. No one wants to watch the umpires calling time several times a game to call balls or strikes. Just wait until a game ends on a called strike because the batter didnt get set in time. Its happened in college this year, the game had a big league fortunately but still leaves a bad taste in your mouth
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Couldnt even get through day one without an umpire show with the rule. McNeil got called for a strike because Alonso "didnt get back to first fast enough"
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Devers striking out on a pitch clock violation after a foul ball lol.
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
dont worry, they will figure it out. its a learning curve. overall, it is good for the game.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I'm not against it overall, I love college baseball and they have a good balance with it. I'm just against the times they set and umpires looking to make calls on it to be the stars of a game
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007