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8 reales CAR on 1733

Hi all. What can you say about it? And about stamp of Central American Republic? Is the stamp real or fake? If it's real what is the type (1,2,3,4 Krause)? Thanks.




Peace.

Comments

  • Sergey74Sergey74 Posts: 151 ✭✭✭

    Doesn't anybody know?

    Peace.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I took a quick look at my KM catalog, the only c/m types shown that are one-sided are types I, II and VII. The only type listing an 8 reale klippe is type V. So- I don't know.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2023 12:43PM

    It's not that unusual for these coins to be countermarked with the CAR punch. It's also not unusual to find complete fakes. It would, however, be very unusual to find a modern fake countermark on a real klippe. But there are contemporary (i.e., old) counterfeit countermarks on various types of real (and contemporary counterfeit) coins. All that said, I see no reason to doubt the klippe, but I can't say for sure that it's real. And that countermark looks way too indistinct, so I'm not sure what to make of it. It would help to get a look at it in person.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Sergey74Sergey74 Posts: 151 ✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2023 10:28AM

    The coin is in Russia, it was bought on Spanish auction: https://www.coinarchives.com/w/lotviewer.php?LotID=6046759&AucID=6936&Lot=101&Val=80ed7ede1eb4fe2ad943f4128aec6a24 . You can see very strange description.
    Really my question: is the counterstamp real of those times or fake of those times? I have read about fake stamps of those times like rude work but i have found so bad stamps with pcgs-ngc and don't know.
    Thanks for answers.

    Peace.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ok- I was looking at Costa Rica since you mentioned a CAR stamp and I was thinking of the ones with a CAR legend. There is a one sided Guatemala c/m on a klippe, the images (or c/m) are too indistinct to be sure of anything.

    Sorry for the detour.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    On the higher resolution images on CoinArchives.com, the piece looks like a cast counterfeit.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2023 5:19PM

    FWIW, I have a number of real coins with contemporary counterfeit CAR (Guatemala) countermarks. I consider them important to my collection, and far from worthless. I'll try to remember to shoot some pics next time I visit the bank.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Sergey74Sergey74 Posts: 151 ✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2023 10:24AM

    To know: the thing isn't mine.
    So is nobody who think about it like real coin with real stamp? Or is it real coin with fake stamp old or modern? For this discussion i understand that the thing is doubtful, isn't it?

    Peace.

  • Sergey74Sergey74 Posts: 151 ✭✭✭

    Maybe can anybody else answer?

    Peace.

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, without having specific knowledge of the series but having decent knowledge in spotting counterfeits, I'm suspicious of the whole thing, host and counterstamp. The host coin looks cast.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • Sergey74Sergey74 Posts: 151 ✭✭✭

    Peace.

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Late to the party, but wanted to add that the low weight and grainy surfaces of the host also make me think it's a cast.

  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 338 ✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2023 5:14PM

    That piece is a first-glance cast concoction.

    Klippes more than any cob type have a TON of 20th century (non-contemporary) cast imitations/replicas out there... many of them older, fairly well-executed and often nicely patinated (AND many also bearing fake Guatemala counterstamps of varying quality, as this one does). I have not seen any other specimens of this one before, however.

    I'm a bit surprised at Aureo Calico for offering that. Cayon, from casual observation, is a bit better pointing out questionable pieces, but still...

    Shown below is a montage one of one such older piece that taken alone can be fairly deceiving. Note a couple were given a fake Guat C/M.

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