8 reales CAR on 1733

Sergey74

Hi all. What can you say about it? And about stamp of Central American Republic? Is the stamp real or fake? If it's real what is the type (1,2,3,4 Krause)? Thanks.

Sergey74

Doesn't anybody know?

MasonG

I took a quick look at my KM catalog, the only c/m types shown that are one-sided are types I, II and VII. The only type listing an 8 reale klippe is type V. So- I don't know.

MrEureka

It's not that unusual for these coins to be countermarked with the CAR punch. It's also not unusual to find complete fakes. It would, however, be very unusual to find a modern fake countermark on a real klippe. But there are contemporary (i.e., old) counterfeit countermarks on various types of real (and contemporary counterfeit) coins. All that said, I see no reason to doubt the klippe, but I can't say for sure that it's real. And that countermark looks way too indistinct, so I'm not sure what to make of it. It would help to get a look at it in person.

Sergey74

The coin is in Russia, it was bought on Spanish auction: https://www.coinarchives.com/w/lotviewer.php?LotID=6046759&AucID=6936&Lot=101&Val=80ed7ede1eb4fe2ad943f4128aec6a24 . You can see very strange description.
Really my question: is the counterstamp real of those times or fake of those times? I have read about fake stamps of those times like rude work but i have found so bad stamps with pcgs-ngc and don't know.
Thanks for answers.

MasonG

Ok- I was looking at Costa Rica since you mentioned a CAR stamp and I was thinking of the ones with a CAR legend. There is a one sided Guatemala c/m on a klippe, the images (or c/m) are too indistinct to be sure of anything.

Sorry for the detour.

MrEureka

On the higher resolution images on CoinArchives.com, the piece looks like a cast counterfeit.

MrEureka

FWIW, I have a number of real coins with contemporary counterfeit CAR (Guatemala) countermarks. I consider them important to my collection, and far from worthless. I'll try to remember to shoot some pics next time I visit the bank.

Sergey74

To know: the thing isn't mine.
So is nobody who think about it like real coin with real stamp? Or is it real coin with fake stamp old or modern? For this discussion i understand that the thing is doubtful, isn't it?

Sergey74

And look this stamp: https://www.coinarchives.com/w/lotviewer.php?LotID=6131155&AucID=7038&Lot=40346&Val=f0000417cf238a87110641ed2523a455 .

Sergey74

Maybe can anybody else answer?

sellitstore

Yeah, without having specific knowledge of the series but having decent knowledge in spotting counterfeits, I'm suspicious of the whole thing, host and counterstamp. The host coin looks cast.

Sergey74

Really now I'm thinking you are right, men, that it's all fake. You can compare it and another the same with stamp or without:
It: https://www.coinarchives.com/0b730106bb52f0947076f31614b25f08/img/aureo/400/image00101.jpg
Another with stamp: https://www.coinarchives.com/dc6a1b6d0394ca04a702187265902626/img/ponterio/223/image40345.jpg
Without: https://www.coinarchives.com/ba8d423997595950c69b306cbfd859b9/img/sedwick/032/image00413.jpg
Looks like cast.

TwoKopeiki

Late to the party, but wanted to add that the low weight and grainy surfaces of the host also make me think it's a cast.

realeswatcher

That piece is a first-glance cast concoction.

Klippes more than any cob type have a TON of 20th century (non-contemporary) cast imitations/replicas out there... many of them older, fairly well-executed and often nicely patinated (AND many also bearing fake Guatemala counterstamps of varying quality, as this one does). I have not seen any other specimens of this one before, however.

I'm a bit surprised at Aureo Calico for offering that. Cayon, from casual observation, is a bit better pointing out questionable pieces, but still...

Shown below is a montage one of one such older piece that taken alone can be fairly deceiving. Note a couple were given a fake Guat C/M.