Home Precious Metals

Gold and politics

cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

Oftentimes our discussions devolve into political matters, but this article seems to indicate the two are intertwined. Thanks to the moderators to allow some discourse.

“We’ve just seen that there’s massive interest in this market that responds to what our messaging is,” said Ray Griggs of Advantage Gold

Gold Retailers Woo Trump Fans With Appeals to MAGA-Fueled Angst https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-16/gold-retailers-woo-trump-fans-with-appeals-to-maga-fueled-angst

Excuses are tools of the ignorant

Knowledge is the enemy of fear

Comments

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 16, 2023 10:50AM

    IMHO:
    The effect of politics on PMs is limited to government spending and government legislation in the areas of banking and finance. The US Treasury also effects PMs with its actions. Any other discussion of government has no place on the forum. The Federal Reserve Bank is not a US government entity, it is owned by US commercial banks. The FED carries great inluence over PM prices.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMHO....PM prices are driven in the short to intermediate term by emotions. There are some, perhaps many, who wish to control and manipulate PM prices and human emotions via fear. Pms are a fear trade. And fear is big business.

    As the article states, the PM message is adopted wholeheartedly by one side of the aisle and draws crickets from the other. That's quite an indictment of politics.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 16, 2023 3:59PM

    Love the Au HATE the politics. Semper!! RGDS!!!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2023 5:45PM

    The politics mean squat. A few hundred thousand buyers of 1 or 2 ounces means NOTHING if a SWF or CB or other large holder drop a few hundred tons.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2023 6:39PM

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    A few hundred thousand buyers of 1 or 2 ounces means NOTHING

    Thousands? Seems there are 10s of millions--in this country alone.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    The politics mean squat.

    If PMs do not have a root in politics, then why does the PM reseller only set up at Republican events and not Democrat? Don't the Dems have more money?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    A few hundred thousand buyers of 1 or 2 ounces means NOTHING

    Thousands? Seems there are 10s of millions--in this country alone.

    I think there are a couple of million, tops. Maybe 10 MM at the upper end.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldFinger1969 said:

    @cohodk said:

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    A few hundred thousand buyers of 1 or 2 ounces means NOTHING

    Thousands? Seems there are 10s of millions--in this country alone.

    I think there are a couple of million, tops. Maybe 10 MM at the upper end.

    10 million buyers at 2 ounces per is about 20% of the gold mined per year. That's quite a demand component.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2023 7:28AM

    @cohodk said:
    10 million buyers at 2 ounces per is about 20% of the gold mined per year. That's quite a demand component.

    But not that many buy. If they did, you'd see those gold infomercials airing much earlier than 4 AM. :)

    My father bought some gold in 1994. Then he bought a coin or two in 2000. Then again about 2015. Maybe 6 coins in total over 30 years. He's the typical non-active buyer/collector. Ask dealers how often they sell to someone they DON'T KNOW -- it's very rare. Most of their active or larger buyers are people they know or buyers they see every few months...years...whatever.

    Also, that component has been pretty constant so it is NOT new demand. Plus, you have supply that can hit from central banks or speculators if the price rises.

    A bigger source of demand would be from the burgeoning middle class of India and China. India's GDP and national income should double by 2030....if gold merely tracks it you are talking about an extra 30,000,000 ounces of demand, maybe more.

    Asia and the NICs....China....South/Central America...maybe Africa....lots of potential demand over the next decade. Will Crypto/BitCoin steal some of the thunder, though.....

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    The politics mean squat.

    If PMs do not have a root in politics, then why does the PM reseller only set up at Republican events and not >Democrat? Don't the Dems have more money?

    Probably because your grass-roots GOP voter is into monetary issues but your grass-roots Dem voter is not.

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,402 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    The politics mean squat.

    If PMs do not have a root in politics, then why does the PM reseller only set up at Republican events and not Democrat? Don't the Dems have more money?

    wow, I could easily answer that but a don't want PM from Heather >:)

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭

    @ctf_error_coins said:
    wow, I could easily answer that but a don't want PM from Heather >:)

    It's actually not a political issue, it's a socioeconomic one.

    Same reason why infomercials run at 4 AM and not in primetime. :)

    Josh Brown on CNBC was very bullish on gold today.

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,402 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    The politics mean squat.

    If PMs do not have a root in politics, then why does the PM reseller only set up at Republican events and not Democrat? Don't the Dems have more money?

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,749 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    Oftentimes our discussions devolve into political matters, but this article seems to indicate the two are intertwined. Thanks to the moderators to allow some discourse.

    “We’ve just seen that there’s massive interest in this market that responds to what our messaging is,” said Ray Griggs of Advantage Gold

    Gold Retailers Woo Trump Fans With Appeals to MAGA-Fueled Angst https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-16/gold-retailers-woo-trump-fans-with-appeals-to-maga-fueled-angst

    This link seems to indicate that you're right. And who is overcharging who ? For what ?
    https://www.usmint.gov/

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭

    Those shyster frauds are selling hope and hype.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2023 12:45PM

    Gold price is determined by "confidence" in the fiat currency it is priced in. Much of that confidence is dependent on the actions of politicians (spending, sanctions, etc.) as well as those who set our economic direction and appoint those who set our economic direction.

    The world has witnessed the weaponization of the dollar to punish or sanction a country's behavior with many other countries and central banks wondering if their dollar holdings will be in jeopardy. Additionally, they are finding no solace in trading their valuable commodities for paper assets which are continually depreciating in value. This lack of confidence and the growing fear of holding dollars has led many countries to look for an alternative and many are starting to trade directly among themselves, accepting each other's currencies without using the long revered "petrodollar." For example, the Gulf Council states now accept Chinese yuan in payment for oil. Also, Russia and India now trading among themselves using rupees and rubles.

    Furthermore, BRICS countries are suggesting they are working on this issue and that, in the upcoming BRICS Summit on August 22-24 to be held in South Africa, they will be making announcements regarding their progress. Plenty of proof that the dollar's role as a worldwide reserve currency is slowly dying. Look for this to gain momentum. This will require future US debt to be bought more by Americans and most importantly by the Federal Reserve, who currently holds $6T in public debt. The dying petrodollar is no longer a conspiracy theory, it has evolved into a conspiracy fact.

    At home inflation is destroying Americans' confidence in the future value of the dollar. Got gold? LOL

    And I join the OP in thanking our host for tolerating some leeway in our PM discussions.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,749 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Which liar are you gonna believe ? Go long on gold in silence.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,749 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It has never been politics that wooed me :blush:
    Gold ? Sure enough.

    Want this or a 3 dollar bill ?

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2023 4:49AM

    @cohodk said:

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    The politics mean squat.

    If PMs do not have a root in politics, then why does the PM reseller only set up at Republican events and not Democrat? Don't the Dems have more money?

    PMs have a root in common sense, and hard labor. Despite who has money ," it "doesn't make them any more intelligent.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2023 5:06AM

    @cohodk said:

    If PMs do not have a root in politics, then why does the PM reseller only set up at Republican events and not Democrat? Don't the Dems have more money?

    PMs have root in Austrian economics. One party leans Austrian (real money), the other leans Keynsian (fiat money).

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,749 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PMs have a deeper root in religion than in politics. It's long been a form of payment, but silver ( measured in shekels in the old book) , more so than gold. And nobody was ever pushing it , from any side. Why? Well it's always satisfied debtors. Need credit ? Got gold ? Who needs credit ?
    Could it be, that some get it and some don't, on all sides ?
    If you have enough for today, do you have enough ?
    Crickets ? Some needn't say.
    I think those who report have no clue who buys what or which side they take. Money is money. Silver and gold are money.

    @cohodk said:
    IMHO....PM prices are driven in the short to intermediate term by emotions. There are some, perhaps many, who wish to control and manipulate PM prices and human emotions via fear. Pms are a fear trade. And fear is big business.

    As the article states, the PM message is adopted wholeheartedly by one side of the aisle and draws crickets from the other. That's quite an indictment of politics.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    It has never been politics that wooed me :blush:
    Gold ? Sure enough. !
    Want this or a 3 dollar bill ?

    Took ahwile but we finally agree. SMPR! RDGS!!!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    The politics mean squat.

    If PMs do not have a root in politics, then why does the PM reseller only set up at Republican events and not Democrat? Don't the Dems have more money?

    I didn't know I could buy PMs at Republican events. How do I find one and how are their prices.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jim Rickards - "the financial and political worlds are becoming more closely intertwined to the point that it's almost impossible to treat them separately."

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2023 7:07PM

    Blitzdude - "The Bafoons and the Bunker Dwellers have become so misinformed that it's impossible for them to grasp simple tasks such as reality."

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭

    Inflation is back down to 3-4%. Anybody hoping for a re-run of the late-1970's is living for Fool's Gold (pun intended).

    Buy gold coins because you like their designs and they might double or triple in 10-12 years. But don't count on it. :)

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2023 4:34PM

    updated:

    gold to silver ratio still screaming that silver is extremely undervalued relative to gold.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    gold to silver ratio highest it's been in 27 years. Screaming that silver is extremely undervalued relative to gold.

    Your chart is a bit outdated. Gold to gutter ratio was 114+ back in April 2020. It's 82 right now. Certainly not the highest ratio in the past 27 years. THKS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMHO....PM prices are driven in the short to intermediate term by emotions. There are some, perhaps many, who wish to control and manipulate PM prices and human emotions via fear. Pms are a fear trade. And fear is big business.

    You didn't mention the greed factor, which I would argue is as important in metals as it is in most other markets. I'm not 100% convinced that there's a correlation between metals and political affiliation. The correlation seems more to be between the pm marketers and political affiliation than it is between pm investors and political affiliation.

    IMHO, the real correlation is a negative one, that between the value of inflated dollars vs precious metals - which reflects directly back onto the politics of profligate federal spending.

    Those shyster frauds are selling hope and hype.

    You're talking about the bankers, right?? :)

    That's quite an indictment of politics.

    Oh heck, I can think of alot much better indictments than that one!

    Blitzdude - "The Bafoons and the Bunker Dwellers have become so misinformed that it's impossible for them to grasp simple tasks such as reality."

    Another message from outer space but from somewhere in this solar system?

    Inflation is back down to 3-4%. Anybody hoping for a re-run of the late-1970's is living for Fool's Gold (pun intended).

    Buy gold coins because you like their designs and they might double or triple in 10-12 years. But don't count on it. :)

    You do realize, don't you - that Congress eliminated any notion of a cap on their spending orgasm while in the process of passing the most recent $1.5 Trillion spending bill?

    All while 61% of working families are living paycheck to paycheck and don't have $400 saved for an emergency. Where'd all that newly-created money go? Any guesses?

    gold to silver ratio highest it's been in 27 years. Screaming that silver is extremely undervalued relative to gold.

    I bought some more 90% silver at the show in St. Louis last weekend. I just had to rescue some more of my purchasing power so I threw some more dollar-denominated paper fiat back into the "economy". They are trying to make cash into a liability anyway. Bizzarro World - debt is money and cash is a liability. Go figure. Got metals?

    Tangible, or Not Tangible - that is the Question.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2023 4:46PM

    @blitzdude said:

    @derryb said:
    gold to silver ratio highest it's been in 27 years. Screaming that silver is extremely undervalued relative to gold.

    Your chart is "just"......""a bit""..........outdated, looks like the doomsday compass is WAY off as per usual. Gold to gutter ratio was 114+ back in April 2020. It's 82 right now. Certainly not the highest ratio in the past 27 years. THKS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    Blitzdude - "The Bafoons and the Bunker Dwellers have become so misinformed that it's impossible for them to grasp simple tasks such as reality."

    What is a "Bafoon" ?

    PS:
    If you look around and don't know who the real buffoon is, then you are it.

  • percybpercyb Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭

    Long term trend of gold has been up regardless of the political milieu imho.

    "Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
Sign In or Register to comment.