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Help with this ebay offering of an 1804 Plain 4 w/Stems Draped Bust Half Cent?

jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

I do not think this 1804 to be a Plain 4 w/stems, but a Crosslet 4 w/stems. At first glance it has the telltale cud(which the seller points out as an identifier), which to my knowledge is with the crosslet 4 only. The 4 is so corroded it makes it appear to be a plain 4, but looking closely, you can see part of the crosslet. Then the reverse is wrong. What do you think? I didn't want to contact the seller until I had your opinions. @NeophyteNumismatist @opportunity @burfle23 and anyone interested help out please.
Jim

EBAY: https://www.ebay.com/itm/265818750805?hash=item3de4083f55:g:Va4AAOSwEb5i0LXy&amdata=enc:AQAHAAABACP7Wj6taoBAFyjLGILUHguapCxJmjPUmuJDirqQsF0d+ShEZuE9yN/5x5AnEVcVY047AG8IkvWOKoZepeNXQemhChbiRmBUj7Yx6fh22WCpqXg2xkU5cg2o5szs6FoCFJZOKPp26TaGnYwTAT0JIFACLUI9D7sOG4taLhLJVKLf5OKBUiU9DOdO9lF+cNjGxrkifT875mtShTY3H2mBjn0XzLyyM7Euug8xDcFQwuJMtesIaUBt2mYfn7mtDMbnDk5viqcACsJlYi72p2l3HZIZ3VemDsCSG5FzZa4f7RbbhfqPu3FGj6AV1G/WrmWg4T1GY3fuIsZAZFkl85tm3ao=|tkp:Bk9SR4buhevZYQ


When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain

Comments

  • MapsOnFireMapsOnFire Posts: 181 ✭✭✭

    Surely. Gilbert 5, Crosslet 4 and the reverse has the groove in the die through the R to the rim.
    I hope my memory hasn't failed. Haven't owned a half cent in nearly 50 years.

  • opportunityopportunity Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 6:56AM

    It's a C-9, cross 4, with stems... the seller is wrong about everything except for the stems part, lol.

    Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thought so Robert, I notified the seller.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Never heard from seller and coin still listed as an 1804 plain 4 with stems. It's so obvious, even without a visible photo of the 4, the lower fraction is close and not wide. I do not know how to report it as a mislisted, as that does not appear to be a valid complaint under reasons for reporting. At least it's a BIN and noone has bought it yet, perhaps the price will deter anyone from doing so.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2023 1:18PM

    @jesbroken said:
    Never heard from seller and coin still listed as an 1804 plain 4 with stems. It's so obvious, even without a visible photo of the 4, the lower fraction is close and not wide. I do not know how to report it as a mislisted, as that does not appear to be a valid complaint under reasons for reporting. At least it's a BIN and noone has bought it yet, perhaps the price will deter anyone from doing so.
    Jim

    You could report it by choosing the below options and then using the “Brief Description” box to explain the issue.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • opportunityopportunity Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2023 1:43PM

    ^^ Eh I would let it go. That's a bit too much of being a busy body for my liking. It's not like the seller is committing fraud (unless you consider the absurd asking price as fraud, lol).

    Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How on earth is the ebay customer service rep suppose to have the knowledge to be able determine if this is a legitimate complaint?????????????????

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ctf_error_coins said:
    How on earth is the ebay customer service rep suppose to have the knowledge to be able determine if this is a legitimate complaint?????????????????

    He or she isn’t, as is also the case when there are reports of counterfeits, et. However, it probably makes a difference if there are multiple reports and I believe that in at least some cases, consultants are used.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • NeophyteNumismatistNeophyteNumismatist Posts: 856 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2023 3:15PM

    He is marketing the coin as an R.3 variety when it's an R.1. However, I would hope that the variety collector would see the cud on the obverse that is a solid marker for the C-9.

    I reached out to the seller, too. Let's see if they change the listing.

    I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.

  • opportunityopportunity Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭

    @NeophyteNumismatist said:
    He is marketing the coin as an R.3 variety when it's an R.1. However, I would hope that the variety collector would see the cud on the obverse that is a solid marker for the C-9.

    An R3 in that condition doesn't mean a lot, though. I agree that accuracy is important when you're a seller, but this particular instance just doesn't mean a whole lot...at least not to me. Then again, I know what I'm doing, lol.

    Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.

  • NeophyteNumismatistNeophyteNumismatist Posts: 856 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess I was hoping the price changes with the attribution. I can get a graded VF example of the C-9 for under the BIN price. I would struggle to do the same with the C-11.

    I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.

  • opportunityopportunity Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭

    @NeophyteNumismatist said:
    I guess I was hoping the price changes with the attribution. I can get a graded VF example of the C-9 for under the BIN price. I would struggle to do the same with the C-11.

    I'm curious, what do you grade the coin in your mind? To me, the slab grade would probably be Fine details.

    Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld
    Thank you. I did, but it doesn't give but 90 characters and not able to give enough info, but left what I could. Hopefully someone else will do so.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • NeophyteNumismatistNeophyteNumismatist Posts: 856 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree, it's a F12 details (environmental damage). I wasn't trying to say this coin is VF, only that I could get a straight-graded, nice looking VF C-9 in a holder for less than the asking price of this coin.

    I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With the pitting to the obverse which is detrimental to IDing the Crosslet 4 I felt a VG10 from a F12. Then that's just my opinion. They still have not answered my contact. Is what it is.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Heck, I reported it...

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 16, 2023 12:18PM

    Seller just contactedme and agreed to change his listing description.
    Jim

    Correction: Seller said he had changed it.
    "Thank you I have revised it."


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Please note, 2 hours since he said to have changed his description it is the same. Perhaps later.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • NeophyteNumismatistNeophyteNumismatist Posts: 856 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This listing has been revised... the price has not :)

    I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wish them the best of luck. ;)
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Still the same for me.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • NeophyteNumismatistNeophyteNumismatist Posts: 856 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Changed from C-11 to C-9, but left the "plain 4"... It is clear that this seller just has no idea.

    I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The average buyer will look at the Plain 4 stems and not much further, the buyer that would notice the C-9 designation would be clever enough to see it wasn't a C-11 to begin with. We tried.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain

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