Help with this ebay offering of an 1804 Plain 4 w/Stems Draped Bust Half Cent?

jesbroken

I do not think this 1804 to be a Plain 4 w/stems, but a Crosslet 4 w/stems. At first glance it has the telltale cud(which the seller points out as an identifier), which to my knowledge is with the crosslet 4 only. The 4 is so corroded it makes it appear to be a plain 4, but looking closely, you can see part of the crosslet. Then the reverse is wrong. What do you think? I didn't want to contact the seller until I had your opinions. @NeophyteNumismatist @opportunity @burfle23 and anyone interested help out please.
Jim

EBAY: https://www.ebay.com/itm/265818750805?hash=item3de4083f55:g:Va4AAOSwEb5i0LXy&amdata=enc:AQAHAAABACP7Wj6taoBAFyjLGILUHguapCxJmjPUmuJDirqQsF0d+ShEZuE9yN/5x5AnEVcVY047AG8IkvWOKoZepeNXQemhChbiRmBUj7Yx6fh22WCpqXg2xkU5cg2o5szs6FoCFJZOKPp26TaGnYwTAT0JIFACLUI9D7sOG4taLhLJVKLf5OKBUiU9DOdO9lF+cNjGxrkifT875mtShTY3H2mBjn0XzLyyM7Euug8xDcFQwuJMtesIaUBt2mYfn7mtDMbnDk5viqcACsJlYi72p2l3HZIZ3VemDsCSG5FzZa4f7RbbhfqPu3FGj6AV1G/WrmWg4T1GY3fuIsZAZFkl85tm3ao=|tkp:Bk9SR4buhevZYQ

MapsOnFire

Surely. Gilbert 5, Crosslet 4 and the reverse has the groove in the die through the R to the rim.
I hope my memory hasn't failed. Haven't owned a half cent in nearly 50 years.

opportunity

It's a C-9, cross 4, with stems... the seller is wrong about everything except for the stems part, lol.

jesbroken

Thought so Robert, I notified the seller.
Jim

jesbroken

Never heard from seller and coin still listed as an 1804 plain 4 with stems. It's so obvious, even without a visible photo of the 4, the lower fraction is close and not wide. I do not know how to report it as a mislisted, as that does not appear to be a valid complaint under reasons for reporting. At least it's a BIN and noone has bought it yet, perhaps the price will deter anyone from doing so.
Jim

MFeld

@jesbroken said:
Never heard from seller and coin still listed as an 1804 plain 4 with stems. It's so obvious, even without a visible photo of the 4, the lower fraction is close and not wide. I do not know how to report it as a mislisted, as that does not appear to be a valid complaint under reasons for reporting. At least it's a BIN and noone has bought it yet, perhaps the price will deter anyone from doing so.
Jim

You could report it by choosing the below options and then using the “Brief Description” box to explain the issue.

opportunity

^^ Eh I would let it go. That's a bit too much of being a busy body for my liking. It's not like the seller is committing fraud (unless you consider the absurd asking price as fraud, lol).

ctf_error_coins

How on earth is the ebay customer service rep suppose to have the knowledge to be able determine if this is a legitimate complaint?????????????????

MFeld

@ctf_error_coins said:
How on earth is the ebay customer service rep suppose to have the knowledge to be able determine if this is a legitimate complaint?????????????????

He or she isn’t, as is also the case when there are reports of counterfeits, et. However, it probably makes a difference if there are multiple reports and I believe that in at least some cases, consultants are used.

NeophyteNumismatist

He is marketing the coin as an R.3 variety when it's an R.1. However, I would hope that the variety collector would see the cud on the obverse that is a solid marker for the C-9.

I reached out to the seller, too. Let's see if they change the listing.

opportunity

@NeophyteNumismatist said:
He is marketing the coin as an R.3 variety when it's an R.1. However, I would hope that the variety collector would see the cud on the obverse that is a solid marker for the C-9.

An R3 in that condition doesn't mean a lot, though. I agree that accuracy is important when you're a seller, but this particular instance just doesn't mean a whole lot...at least not to me. Then again, I know what I'm doing, lol.

NeophyteNumismatist

I guess I was hoping the price changes with the attribution. I can get a graded VF example of the C-9 for under the BIN price. I would struggle to do the same with the C-11.

opportunity

@NeophyteNumismatist said:
I guess I was hoping the price changes with the attribution. I can get a graded VF example of the C-9 for under the BIN price. I would struggle to do the same with the C-11.

I'm curious, what do you grade the coin in your mind? To me, the slab grade would probably be Fine details.

jesbroken

@MFeld
Thank you. I did, but it doesn't give but 90 characters and not able to give enough info, but left what I could. Hopefully someone else will do so.
Jim

NeophyteNumismatist

I agree, it's a F12 details (environmental damage). I wasn't trying to say this coin is VF, only that I could get a straight-graded, nice looking VF C-9 in a holder for less than the asking price of this coin.

jesbroken

With the pitting to the obverse which is detrimental to IDing the Crosslet 4 I felt a VG10 from a F12. Then that's just my opinion. They still have not answered my contact. Is what it is.
Jim

burfle23

Heck, I reported it...

jesbroken

Seller just contactedme and agreed to change his listing description.
Jim

Correction: Seller said he had changed it.
"Thank you I have revised it."

jesbroken

Please note, 2 hours since he said to have changed his description it is the same. Perhaps later.
Jim

NeophyteNumismatist

This listing has been revised... the price has not

jesbroken

I wish them the best of luck.
Jim

jesbroken

Still the same for me.
Jim

NeophyteNumismatist

Changed from C-11 to C-9, but left the "plain 4"... It is clear that this seller just has no idea.

jesbroken

The average buyer will look at the Plain 4 stems and not much further, the buyer that would notice the C-9 designation would be clever enough to see it wasn't a C-11 to begin with. We tried.
Jim