CAC stickers have numbered days. Send in now or forever hold your peace.
Clackamas1
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I talked to a rep at CAC today; as you know they are going to do a grading service. When they launch it you will no longer be able to send your coin in for evaluation (except for a "large premium on a specialty basis"). Due to the registry I am not a fan of this approach. PCGS did the smart thing and not accepting NGC coins in their registry, it sucks for us collectors but it does play into vanity. I can't see how CAC doing grading makes a difference. They have a great niche, why toss the apple cart over. I just don't get it.
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"Except for..."? So- you can still send in coins for evaluation? Or what?
Are you certain that the rep confirmed the stickering service will be effectively sunset at CACG launch? That would be a significant acceleration of that timeline versus what’s been announced previously, if so.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Will they sticker Vault Box coins?
JA has said he'll keep stickering for 10 years after CACG launch. I doubt it'll be that long a time, but "time will tell." If it remains at the current $35 lvel vs the previous $16 for collectors, it's still worthwhile for those who don't want to reslab their PCGS or NGC coins at CACG.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
that is the question - 'exceptional circumstances" is what was told to me. You define it -
People here know that I am not a CAC fan. I will thank them for one thing. They discouraged me from collecting U.S. coins which got me into British and Roman Imperial numismatics. Thank you CAC. I’ve had a fun ride, and look forward to continuing it.
This is JA response to the question - from the CAC forums.
A: Initially, I envisioned that once the CAC grading service started grading and encapsulating coins that the stickering service would be discontinued. But after speaking to many collectors and dealers about this they urged me to continue stickering because there were many collectors who were collecting only CAC coins. We don’t want to pull out the rug from under those people, but we plan to do it at a higher fee structure. So instead of receiving, say, 12,000 coins per month, we might be getting 500.
Question by Maurice Rosen, editor of The Rosen Numismatic Advisory
https://www.caccoin.com/forums/discussion/521/cac-grading-transition-faq-17-questions-answered
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Will their fee scale be similar to cac's two main competitors? Presumably any coin that has the cac sticker will be accepted to be put into their new slabs, any idea on the fee for that? Will they review any coins in holders for crossovers at specified minimums?
I don't have a clue, just the stickering is already more than or equal to the grading fee at PCGS. Mind you they don't have to do jack for that service. I appreciate CAC; it is awesome; I was one of the first few hundred members as a collector. I don't think you can even get a membership now.
Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.
(except for a "large premium on a specialty basis")
wth does this mean?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Expensive, high end coins getting stickered for a large fee.
This is my recollection, and I highly doubt JA is going to pull the rug out from under us and end the stickering service when CACG opens. It might not be 10 years, but I don’t believe it will end this year.
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It is MARCH, didnt they announce this as the MONTH they would start grading coins?
TC71
I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
yes - but it is getting real now.
Do they have an ACTUAL START DATE?
TC71
Not that I was told - I was told 'hurry up'. Which sucks for me because I have 2 coins at PCGS that have been in encapsulation for over a month now. I am thinking I get my CAC submissions ready this weekend and eff the 2 coins at PCGS.
That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.
Not really. Some may want to add a coin to their PCGS registry but they don't want to lose the vintage NGC slab or the NGC grade opinion. Also, stickers are less expensive than the labor and materials required to crack out a coin, create a new label, and put it into a new slab. Also, they could charge less and still make a decent profit. Other than buying a few rolls of stickers and a computer upgrade to record those coins that earned their sticker, there would no other equipment required.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Where's the incentive to get your coins slabbed by CAC if PCGS excludes them from their registry sets?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Since presumably PCGS will not allow CACG holders in their Registry sets (just as they currently exclude NGC holders), those of us like me that want to continue to partake in the PCGS Registry will not cross those Registry coins to CACG.
With that said, once we're allowed to submit to CACG for crossing, I plan on taking my PCGS dupes for sale that are in whole grade numbers with CAC stickers, and submitting them to CACG for crossover only at the plus grade or higher. In theory, "A" coins should cross at a plus or possibly to the next higher whole grade number (the latter is possible, but not likely). Once returned, i'll then sell each of my dupes - those that crossed and are now in the new CACG holder, and those that didn't cross, still in the PCGS holder with CAC stickers.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
You do realize that most collectors don't partake in the registry set game. I have around 1000 slabs right now and none of them are in registry sets.
The incentive would be the market value of the coins. If CACG coins sell for more than PCGS coins, you will want to cross all your PCGS coins to CAC.
Edited to add:
Also maybe cost or turnaround time for people selling. Possible CACG preference for fanboys. NGC dominates the coin grading market on volume. People seem to have found reasons to use them even if they can't put the coins in "registry sets".
I'd also suggest your answer is backwards for the question answered. You indicated that PCGS would sticker CACG for the registry sets. Based on your own answer, why would they? They wouldn't want you getting CAC slabs.
Not even close. Take an NGC coin and try to enter it into a PCGS registry - not going to happen. The idea is a good one, PCGS agreeing on the grade, stickering it and then you could add it into a registry set. IMO nGC is the best since they will allow PCGS coins. I probably just got banned - sorry.
CAC green does not equal a plus all the time, in fact not even often.
NTX
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
Assuming they cross at the same grade or higher???????
Coins with CAC stickers should/will indeed cross at the same grade or higher. However, for coins without stickers:
I suspect many coins submitted to cross without CAC stickers will fall into #3 or #4 above. Here's the key question: Will you allow it to cross on your sub form if it crosses to that next lower grade with a plus???????
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Sorry, but while that might be good for you, that would not be a sound business decision for PCGS. Under the current system, PCGS forces you to get their slabs for their registry - hence the crossover. Why would they want to encourage you to use other grading services? It protects their brand to insist on crossovers rather than offer a cheaper sticker alternative.
I was just addressing Perry's question as to why you would use CAC if you can't use the PCGS registry.
Yes, you obviously wouldn't cross it to get a lower value coin. Whether that lower value is to cross at the same grade or a lower grade will depend on the, as yet undetermined, market conditions.
I have no interest in the registries, so my decision to slab anything is based largely on perceived market value as well as cost and turnaround times. For some things, an ANACS slab is the better business decision, sometimes it is NGC, sometimes it is PCGS, usually it is a CAC sticker. I will not spend $35 to add $25 in value.
That's not what I said. I said that "A" coins with CAC stickers should/will cross with a plus, and JA has confirmed that. A green CAC sticker can be an "A" coin or a "B" coin. JA's rough estimate is that about 25% of coins with green stickers are "A" coins. On that point though, it has been pointed out to me that some/many of NGC stickered coins that are "A" coins, may have already been crossed to PCGS holders, so that JA’s estimate of 25% is likely too high, especially when taking into account the remaining NGC CAC coins.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
That is too much to digest this early. You are correct but mostly incorrect.
How do you know if you couldn't digest it?
While I make more than my fair share of errors, please clarify what I said that you feel is incorrect? Thanks.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
It is a wag but a good guess.
t.
Give me a few days please. My dog has had 36 hours of seizures; those ended 30 hours ago, I have been up for 3 days, my wife and I tag team who is up to baby sit him. Forgive me if I can't respond coherently; I have not slept more than 3 hours in 5 days. Oh btw he grabbed a hold on my right hand yesterday and I heard the bones cracking.
All is forgiven - get some rest, take it easy.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
FWIW, I suspect the fees for CAC grading (and the continuation of CAC stickers) are going to be eye watering. And long lead times.
Everything they've told us about the new service comes down to ONE triad of senior graders and one appeals court judge.
They will have to keep demand down to capacity - that includes being able to survive the initial rush and achieve a consistent turn-over rate.
There is only one presidential suite at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel. They manage demand by charging between $4,000 and $25,000 a night depending on day of the week and season.
CAC Grading will do the same.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
This is usually where the game should normally collapse under its own weight.
PCGS can sticker its two competitors slabs, then NGC will do the same, then CAC will do the same if you will pay a larger fee, and now we have 3 opinions and lots of potential prices for a common MS 64 Lincoln cent.
Then we can create new registry sets for slabs with no stickers, another for slabs with one sticker and another for slabs with 2 stickers.
I suspect that the all fourmites who currently treat coins without a cac sticker as kryptonite will then become psychotic
Commems and Early Type
I like having two grading opinions for coins outside my primary focus areas and I see a market for PCGS or NGC to sticker other service’s coins.
Collecting type is difficult - it’s simply too difficult for the average collector to become a grading expert in every series.
Having a second professional opinion on a major purchase decision has value.
I don’t think it undermines PCGS business model to offer a sticker service for CACG or NGC coins. PCGS can charge the same price to sticker that they would charge for crossover.
A PCGS sticker would serve no purpose on a CAC slab. A lot of the first CAC slabs are going to have “legacy” indicator in the serial number, meaning they’ve been crossed from either PCGS or NGC beaned slabs. You already have 2 opinions.
Many others that end up in CACG plastic are going to be coins that were downgraded from their current holders. CAC already has the strictest standards out of the 3, why do I need PCGS to approve of CAC’s 64+ grade, on a coin that PCGS graded 65?
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The can't be any slower than PCGS is.
As obsessed as some are with CAC, what would stop CAC from starting their own registry set?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
CAC will have its own registry, two of them actually. One will be for CAC approved (sticker or slabbed), and the other will be for PCGS or NGC with or without stickers. Thats why I don't understand the desire to have a PCGS sticker to enable coins to be used in the PCGS registry, just use the CAC or NGC registry. I don't get the impression that PCGS is going to change their tune on allowing other slabs anytime soon.
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I’ll tell ya what frosts my hide with CAC they can get the coin back 10 times and know each time they’ve seen it already and didn’t sticker it. Taking $35 (now) each time. At least with PCGS or NGC you get it back in a detail holder if they didn’t like it. I know it can be cracked out but then it gets a clean shot at grading again and many times come back with a grade. CAC just keeps raking it in.
@privatecoin From what I have read on the CAC forum there will be a CACG registry set.
JA and CAC have done so much for the hobby. I am lucky that the coins I enjoy owning happen to be ones JA stickers. It sure makes collecting easy. Enjoy the hobby all.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
CAC doesn't charge collectors if the coin doesn't sticker, contrary to the other grading services that charge full fees whether your coin straight grades or not. Now dealer members have to pay every time, but that serves a purpose to prevent CAC from being inundated with low quality submissions. Dealers need to be more selective, not throwing anything at the wall to see if it sticks. Regardless, a $35 dollar investment is marginal if you're making high quality submissions, and just one sticker could easily return $1000 or more depending on the value of coin.
Edited to add- Also, your "details" comparison proves no point, either. CAC will tell you why the coin didn't sticker, and though its in their database, the coin is given a fresh look every time. Coins that have been rejected on the first go around have been known to sticker on a subsequent submission, occasionally. It's the same principle as getting a details grade from PCGS and re submitting the coin again raw, there is no difference.
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Maybe you don't. For me, it has value in certain situations. There are many collectors who would argue that you shouldn't need a TPG opinion at all and that everyone should learn to be a grading expert before making a purchase.
Fair enough, to each his own. I could see how a PCGS sticker might be useful for an NGC slab, but then at that point I would rather use the money towards an actual crossover.
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Don't forget MACge stickering PCGS, NGC and CACG holders!
Rocking my "shiny-object-syndrome"!!!