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CAC stickers have numbered days. Send in now or forever hold your peace.

Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 10, 2023 5:00PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I talked to a rep at CAC today; as you know they are going to do a grading service. When they launch it you will no longer be able to send your coin in for evaluation (except for a "large premium on a specialty basis"). Due to the registry I am not a fan of this approach. PCGS did the smart thing and not accepting NGC coins in their registry, it sucks for us collectors but it does play into vanity. I can't see how CAC doing grading makes a difference. They have a great niche, why toss the apple cart over. I just don't get it.

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Comments

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:
    When they launch it you will no longer be able to send your coin in for evaluation (except for a "large premium on a specialty basis").

    "Except for..."? So- you can still send in coins for evaluation? Or what?

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @Clackamas1 said:
    When they launch it you will no longer be able to send your coin in for evaluation (except for a "large premium on a specialty basis").

    "Except for..."? So- you can still send in coins for evaluation? Or what?

    that is the question - 'exceptional circumstances" is what was told to me. You define it -

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,955 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Will their fee scale be similar to cac's two main competitors? Presumably any coin that has the cac sticker will be accepted to be put into their new slabs, any idea on the fee for that? Will they review any coins in holders for crossovers at specified minimums?

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2023 6:59PM

    @logger7 said:
    Will their fee scale be similar to cac's two main competitors? Presumably any coin that has the cac sticker will be accepted to be put into their new slabs, any idea on the fee for that? Will they review any coins in holders for crossovers at specified minimums?

    I don't have a clue, just the stickering is already more than or equal to the grading fee at PCGS. Mind you they don't have to do jack for that service. I appreciate CAC; it is awesome; I was one of the first few hundred members as a collector. I don't think you can even get a membership now.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,931 ✭✭✭✭✭

    (except for a "large premium on a specialty basis")

    wth does this mean?

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Catbert said:
    JA has said he'll keep stickering for 10 years after CACG launch. I doubt it'll be that long a time, but "time will tell." If it remains at the current $35 lvel vs the previous $16 for collectors, it's still worthwhile for those who don't want to reslab their PCGS or NGC coins at CACG.

    This is my recollection, and I highly doubt JA is going to pull the rug out from under us and end the stickering service when CACG opens. It might not be 10 years, but I don’t believe it will end this year.

  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭

    It is MARCH, didnt they announce this as the MONTH they would start grading coins?

    TC71

    image
  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TorinoCobra71 said:
    It is MARCH, didnt they announce this as the MONTH they would start grading coins?

    TC71

    yes - but it is getting real now.

  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @TorinoCobra71 said:
    It is MARCH, didnt they announce this as the MONTH they would start grading coins?

    TC71

    yes - but it is getting real now.

    Do they have an ACTUAL START DATE?

    TC71

    image
  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 2:41AM

    @TorinoCobra71 said:

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @TorinoCobra71 said:
    It is MARCH, didnt they announce this as the MONTH they would start grading coins?

    TC71

    yes - but it is getting real now.

    Do they have an ACTUAL START DATE?

    TC71

    Not that I was told - I was told 'hurry up'. Which sucks for me because I have 2 coins at PCGS that have been in encapsulation for over a month now. I am thinking I get my CAC submissions ready this weekend and eff the 2 coins at PCGS.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,300 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,198 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Not really. Some may want to add a coin to their PCGS registry but they don't want to lose the vintage NGC slab or the NGC grade opinion. Also, stickers are less expensive than the labor and materials required to crack out a coin, create a new label, and put it into a new slab. Also, they could charge less and still make a decent profit. Other than buying a few rolls of stickers and a computer upgrade to record those coins that earned their sticker, there would no other equipment required.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,198 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.

    Where's the incentive to get your coins slabbed by CAC if PCGS excludes them from their registry sets?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 5:09AM

    @PerryHall said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.

    Where's the incentive to get your coins slabbed by CAC if PCGS excludes them from their registry sets?

    Since presumably PCGS will not allow CACG holders in their Registry sets (just as they currently exclude NGC holders), those of us like me that want to continue to partake in the PCGS Registry will not cross those Registry coins to CACG.

    With that said, once we're allowed to submit to CACG for crossing, I plan on taking my PCGS dupes for sale that are in whole grade numbers with CAC stickers, and submitting them to CACG for crossover only at the plus grade or higher. In theory, "A" coins should cross at a plus or possibly to the next higher whole grade number (the latter is possible, but not likely). Once returned, i'll then sell each of my dupes - those that crossed and are now in the new CACG holder, and those that didn't cross, still in the PCGS holder with CAC stickers.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 5:13AM

    @PerryHall said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.

    Where's the incentive to get your coins slabbed by CAC if PCGS excludes them from their registry sets?

    You do realize that most collectors don't partake in the registry set game. I have around 1000 slabs right now and none of them are in registry sets.

    The incentive would be the market value of the coins. If CACG coins sell for more than PCGS coins, you will want to cross all your PCGS coins to CAC.

    Edited to add:

    Also maybe cost or turnaround time for people selling. Possible CACG preference for fanboys. NGC dominates the coin grading market on volume. People seem to have found reasons to use them even if they can't put the coins in "registry sets".

    I'd also suggest your answer is backwards for the question answered. You indicated that PCGS would sticker CACG for the registry sets. Based on your own answer, why would they? They wouldn't want you getting CAC slabs.

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Not even close. Take an NGC coin and try to enter it into a PCGS registry - not going to happen. The idea is a good one, PCGS agreeing on the grade, stickering it and then you could add it into a registry set. IMO nGC is the best since they will allow PCGS coins. I probably just got banned - sorry.

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.

    Where's the incentive to get your coins slabbed by CAC if PCGS excludes them from their registry sets?

    Since presumably PCGS will not allow CACG holders in their Registry sets (just as they currently exclude NGC holders), those of us like me that want to continue to partake in the PCGS Registry will not cross those Registry coins to CACG.

    With that said, once we're allowed to submit to CACG for crossing, I plan on taking my PCGS dupes for sale that are in whole grade numbers with CAC stickers, and submitting them to CACG for crossover only at the plus grade or higher. In theory, "A" coins should cross at a plus or possibly to the next higher whole grade number (the latter is possible, but not likely). Once returned, i'll then sell each of my dupes - those that crossed and are now in the new CACG holder, and those that didn't cross, still in the PCGS holder with CAC stickers.

    Steve

    CAC green does not equal a plus all the time, in fact not even often.

  • lobo54lobo54 Posts: 125 ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 5:21AM

    NTX

    I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.

    Where's the incentive to get your coins slabbed by CAC if PCGS excludes them from their registry sets?

    You do realize that most collectors don't partake in the registry set game. I have around 1000 slabs right now and none of them are in registry sets.

    The incentive would be the market value of the coins. If CACG coins sell for more than PCGS coins, you will want to cross all your PCGS coins to CAC.

    Assuming they cross at the same grade or higher???????

    Coins with CAC stickers should/will indeed cross at the same grade or higher. However, for coins without stickers:

    1. If they would have merited a sticker at the current whole grade, then they'll cross at least at that same whole grade number.
    2. Since a CAC sticker on a coin with a plus grade is NOT said by that sticker to be solid at a plus, that coin could cross (unless specified on the sub form otherwise) to just the whole grade number without the plus.
    3. Coins that don't have CAC stickers that have "surface" issues deemed by CACG to be "defects", either won't cross, or will cross at "Details". CAC and the other TPG's have their own separate standards of what "surface issues" are problematic.
    4. Coins without stickers that don't have "surface issues" in the eyes of CACG, but are deemed "C" coins (and that could be the reason they didn't sticker if previously submitted) can cross, but likely at a plus grade at the next lower grade number. For example, a 65 "C" coin could cross at 64+.

    I suspect many coins submitted to cross without CAC stickers will fall into #3 or #4 above. Here's the key question: Will you allow it to cross on your sub form if it crosses to that next lower grade with a plus???????

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,300 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Not even close. Take an NGC coin and try to enter it into a PCGS registry - not going to happen. The idea is a good one, PCGS agreeing on the grade, stickering it and then you could add it into a registry set. IMO nGC is the best since they will allow PCGS coins. I probably just got banned - sorry.

    Sorry, but while that might be good for you, that would not be a sound business decision for PCGS. Under the current system, PCGS forces you to get their slabs for their registry - hence the crossover. Why would they want to encourage you to use other grading services? It protects their brand to insist on crossovers rather than offer a cheaper sticker alternative.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,300 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.

    Where's the incentive to get your coins slabbed by CAC if PCGS excludes them from their registry sets?

    You do realize that most collectors don't partake in the registry set game. I have around 1000 slabs right now and none of them are in registry sets.

    The incentive would be the market value of the coins. If CACG coins sell for more than PCGS coins, you will want to cross all your PCGS coins to CAC.

    Assuming they cross at the same grade or higher???????

    Coins with CAC stickers should/will indeed cross at the same grade or higher. However, for coins without stickers:

    1. If they would have merited a sticker at the current whole grade, then they'll cross at least at that same whole grade number.
    2. Since a CAC sticker on a coin with a plus grade is NOT said by that sticker to be solid at a plus, that coin could cross (unless specified on the sub form otherwise) to just the whole grade number without the plus.
    3. Coins that don't have CAC stickers that have "surface" issues deemed by CACG to be "defects", either won't cross, or will cross at "Details". CAC and the other TPG's have their own separate standards of what "surface issues" are problematic.
    4. Coins without stickers that don't have "surface issues" in the eyes of CACG, but are deemed "C" coins (and that could be the reason they didn't sticker if previously submitted) can cross, but likely at a plus grade at the next lower grade number. For example, a 65 "C" coin could cross at 64+.

    I suspect many coins submitted to cross without CAC stickers will fall into #3 or #4 above. Here's the key question: Will you allow it to cross on your sub form if it crosses to that next lower grade with a plus???????

    Steve

    I was just addressing Perry's question as to why you would use CAC if you can't use the PCGS registry.

    Yes, you obviously wouldn't cross it to get a lower value coin. Whether that lower value is to cross at the same grade or a lower grade will depend on the, as yet undetermined, market conditions.

    I have no interest in the registries, so my decision to slab anything is based largely on perceived market value as well as cost and turnaround times. For some things, an ANACS slab is the better business decision, sometimes it is NGC, sometimes it is PCGS, usually it is a CAC sticker. I will not spend $35 to add $25 in value.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 12:11PM

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @winesteven said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.

    Where's the incentive to get your coins slabbed by CAC if PCGS excludes them from their registry sets?

    Since presumably PCGS will not allow CACG holders in their Registry sets (just as they currently exclude NGC holders), those of us like me that want to continue to partake in the PCGS Registry will not cross those Registry coins to CACG.

    With that said, once we're allowed to submit to CACG for crossing, I plan on taking my PCGS dupes for sale that are in whole grade numbers with CAC stickers, and submitting them to CACG for crossover only at the plus grade or higher. In theory, "A" coins should cross at a plus or possibly to the next higher whole grade number (the latter is possible, but not likely). Once returned, i'll then sell each of my dupes - those that crossed and are now in the new CACG holder, and those that didn't cross, still in the PCGS holder with CAC stickers.

    Steve

    CAC green does not equal a plus all the time, in fact not even often.

    That's not what I said. I said that "A" coins with CAC stickers should/will cross with a plus, and JA has confirmed that. A green CAC sticker can be an "A" coin or a "B" coin. JA's rough estimate is that about 25% of coins with green stickers are "A" coins. On that point though, it has been pointed out to me that some/many of NGC stickered coins that are "A" coins, may have already been crossed to PCGS holders, so that JA’s estimate of 25% is likely too high, especially when taking into account the remaining NGC CAC coins.

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @winesteven said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.

    Where's the incentive to get your coins slabbed by CAC if PCGS excludes them from their registry sets?

    Since presumably PCGS will not allow CACG holders in their Registry sets (just as they currently exclude NGC holders), those of us like me that want to continue to partake in the PCGS Registry will not cross those Registry coins to CACG.

    With that said, once we're allowed to submit to CACG for crossing, I plan on taking my PCGS dupes for sale that are in whole grade numbers with CAC stickers, and submitting them to CACG for crossover only at the plus grade or higher. In theory, "A" coins should cross at a plus or possibly to the next higher whole grade number (the latter is possible, but not likely). Once returned, i'll then sell each of my dupes - those that crossed and are now in the new CACG holder, and those that didn't cross, still in the PCGS holder with CAC stickers.

    Steve

    CAC green does not equal a plus all the time, in fact not even often.

    That is too much to digest this early. You are correct but mostly incorrect.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @winesteven said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.

    Where's the incentive to get your coins slabbed by CAC if PCGS excludes them from their registry sets?

    Since presumably PCGS will not allow CACG holders in their Registry sets (just as they currently exclude NGC holders), those of us like me that want to continue to partake in the PCGS Registry will not cross those Registry coins to CACG.

    With that said, once we're allowed to submit to CACG for crossing, I plan on taking my PCGS dupes for sale that are in whole grade numbers with CAC stickers, and submitting them to CACG for crossover only at the plus grade or higher. In theory, "A" coins should cross at a plus or possibly to the next higher whole grade number (the latter is possible, but not likely). Once returned, i'll then sell each of my dupes - those that crossed and are now in the new CACG holder, and those that didn't cross, still in the PCGS holder with CAC stickers.

    Steve

    CAC green does not equal a plus all the time, in fact not even often.

    That is too much to digest this early. You are correct but mostly incorrect.

    While I make more than my fair share of errors, please clarify what I said that you feel is incorrect? Thanks.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Clackamas1 said:

    How do you know if you couldn't digest it?

    It is a wag but a good guess.

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 5:41AM

    @winesteven said:

    t.

    While I make more than my fair share of errors, please clarify what I said that you feel is incorrect? Thanks.

    Steve

    Give me a few days please. My dog has had 36 hours of seizures; those ended 30 hours ago, I have been up for 3 days, my wife and I tag team who is up to baby sit him. Forgive me if I can't respond coherently; I have not slept more than 3 hours in 5 days. Oh btw he grabbed a hold on my right hand yesterday and I heard the bones cracking.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All is forgiven - get some rest, take it easy.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • CommemDudeCommemDude Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is usually where the game should normally collapse under its own weight.

    PCGS can sticker its two competitors slabs, then NGC will do the same, then CAC will do the same if you will pay a larger fee, and now we have 3 opinions and lots of potential prices for a common MS 64 Lincoln cent.

    Then we can create new registry sets for slabs with no stickers, another for slabs with one sticker and another for slabs with 2 stickers.

    I suspect that the all fourmites who currently treat coins without a cac sticker as kryptonite will then become psychotic

    Dr Mikey
    Commems and Early Type
  • Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 6:45AM

    I like having two grading opinions for coins outside my primary focus areas and I see a market for PCGS or NGC to sticker other service’s coins.

    Collecting type is difficult - it’s simply too difficult for the average collector to become a grading expert in every series.

    Having a second professional opinion on a major purchase decision has value.

    I don’t think it undermines PCGS business model to offer a sticker service for CACG or NGC coins. PCGS can charge the same price to sticker that they would charge for crossover.

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Project Numismatics said:
    I like having two grading opinions for coins outside my primary focus areas and I see a market for PCGS or NGC to sticker other service’s coins.

    Collecting type is difficult - it’s simply too difficult for the average collector to become a grading expert in every series.

    Having a second professional opinion on a major purchase decision has value.

    I don’t think it undermines PCGS business model to offer a sticker service for CACG or NGC coins. PCGS can charge the same price to sticker that they would charge for crossover.

    A PCGS sticker would serve no purpose on a CAC slab. A lot of the first CAC slabs are going to have “legacy” indicator in the serial number, meaning they’ve been crossed from either PCGS or NGC beaned slabs. You already have 2 opinions.

    Many others that end up in CACG plastic are going to be coins that were downgraded from their current holders. CAC already has the strictest standards out of the 3, why do I need PCGS to approve of CAC’s 64+ grade, on a coin that PCGS graded 65?

  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The can't be any slower than PCGS is.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,140 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.

    Where's the incentive to get your coins slabbed by CAC if PCGS excludes them from their registry sets?

    As obsessed as some are with CAC, what would stop CAC from starting their own registry set?

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @privatecoin said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    That sounds quite similar to their (already existent) crossover service.😉

    Agreed. PCGS would essentially be undermining their core business to offer stickers. Unless the sticker service had the same cost basis as the crossover service, I don't see it happening. That's probably the business reason for CAC to stop stickering when CACG is fully online.

    Where's the incentive to get your coins slabbed by CAC if PCGS excludes them from their registry sets?

    As obsessed as some are with CAC, what would stop CAC from starting their own registry set?

    CAC will have its own registry, two of them actually. One will be for CAC approved (sticker or slabbed), and the other will be for PCGS or NGC with or without stickers. Thats why I don't understand the desire to have a PCGS sticker to enable coins to be used in the PCGS registry, just use the CAC or NGC registry. I don't get the impression that PCGS is going to change their tune on allowing other slabs anytime soon.

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ll tell ya what frosts my hide with CAC they can get the coin back 10 times and know each time they’ve seen it already and didn’t sticker it. Taking $35 (now) each time. At least with PCGS or NGC you get it back in a detail holder if they didn’t like it. I know it can be cracked out but then it gets a clean shot at grading again and many times come back with a grade. CAC just keeps raking it in.

  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,595 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @privatecoin From what I have read on the CAC forum there will be a CACG registry set.

    JA and CAC have done so much for the hobby. I am lucky that the coins I enjoy owning happen to be ones JA stickers. It sure makes collecting easy. Enjoy the hobby all.

  • Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @Project Numismatics said:
    I like having two grading opinions for coins outside my primary focus areas and I see a market for PCGS or NGC to sticker other service’s coins.

    Collecting type is difficult - it’s simply too difficult for the average collector to become a grading expert in every series.

    Having a second professional opinion on a major purchase decision has value.

    I don’t think it undermines PCGS business model to offer a sticker service for CACG or NGC coins. PCGS can charge the same price to sticker that they would charge for crossover.

    A PCGS sticker would serve no purpose on a CAC slab. A lot of the first CAC slabs are going to have “legacy” indicator in the serial number, meaning they’ve been crossed from either PCGS or NGC beaned slabs. You already have 2 opinions.

    Many others that end up in CACG plastic are going to be coins that were downgraded from their current holders. CAC already has the strictest standards out of the 3, why do I need PCGS to approve of CAC’s 64+ grade, on a coin that PCGS graded 65?

    Maybe you don't. For me, it has value in certain situations. There are many collectors who would argue that you shouldn't need a TPG opinion at all and that everyone should learn to be a grading expert before making a purchase.

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Project Numismatics said:

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @Project Numismatics said:
    I like having two grading opinions for coins outside my primary focus areas and I see a market for PCGS or NGC to sticker other service’s coins.

    Collecting type is difficult - it’s simply too difficult for the average collector to become a grading expert in every series.

    Having a second professional opinion on a major purchase decision has value.

    I don’t think it undermines PCGS business model to offer a sticker service for CACG or NGC coins. PCGS can charge the same price to sticker that they would charge for crossover.

    A PCGS sticker would serve no purpose on a CAC slab. A lot of the first CAC slabs are going to have “legacy” indicator in the serial number, meaning they’ve been crossed from either PCGS or NGC beaned slabs. You already have 2 opinions.

    Many others that end up in CACG plastic are going to be coins that were downgraded from their current holders. CAC already has the strictest standards out of the 3, why do I need PCGS to approve of CAC’s 64+ grade, on a coin that PCGS graded 65?

    Maybe you don't. For me, it has value in certain situations. There are many collectors who would argue that you shouldn't need a TPG opinion at all and that everyone should learn to be a grading expert before making a purchase.

    Fair enough, to each his own. I could see how a PCGS sticker might be useful for an NGC slab, but then at that point I would rather use the money towards an actual crossover.

  • Eric_BabulaEric_Babula Posts: 413 ✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Pretty clear the next gimmick. Stickers on CAC holders.

    I can see PCGS offering a similar stickering service some day for coins in NGC or CACG slabs. Those coins that meet the strict PCGS standards would earn the PCGS sticker and those coins would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS registry sets. NGC could follow suit and offer a similar stickering service for PCGS and CAC slabs. It would be a popular service and would be an easy money maker.

    Don't forget MACge stickering PCGS, NGC and CACG holders!

    Rocking my "shiny-object-syndrome"!!!

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