How long does it take to turn your entire coin inventory? Every 7 days?
I wish. But i don't consider a bid/ask flip to be an "investment" in the context of the OP's question. I've never bought a coin hoping that it will go up in value while I'm holding it.
You never bought a coin hoping it would go up in value?
That’s a lie
I don't think so. There's a difference between hoping the value of a coin you own goes up and buying it for that reason.
Everyone who ever bought a coin, at least in the tiniest fractional way, has hoped the coin goes up in value.
How long does it take to turn your entire coin inventory? Every 7 days?
I wish. But i don't consider a bid/ask flip to be an "investment" in the context of the OP's question. I've never bought a coin hoping that it will go up in value while I'm holding it.
You never bought a coin hoping it would go up in value?
That’s a lie
I don't think so. There's a difference between hoping the value of a coin you own goes up and buying it for that reason.
Everyone who ever bought a coin, at least in the tiniest fractional way, has hoped the coin goes up in value.
Cmon guys
You need to reread what I wrote. There's a difference between hoping the value goes up and buying because you hope it does. I have boxes of coins ready to sell. Some have gone up in value since I bought them, some haven't. I'd prefer that they all went up but I didn't buy any of them because I was hoping they would.
How long does it take to turn your entire coin inventory? Every 7 days?
I wish. But i don't consider a bid/ask flip to be an "investment" in the context of the OP's question. I've never bought a coin hoping that it will go up in value while I'm holding it.
You never bought a coin hoping it would go up in value?
That’s a lie
I don't think so. There's a difference between hoping the value of a coin you own goes up and buying it for that reason.
Everyone who ever bought a coin, at least in the tiniest fractional way, has hoped the coin goes up in value.
Cmon guys
You need to reread what I wrote. There's a difference between hoping the value goes up and buying because you hope it does. I have boxes of coins ready to sell. Some have gone up in value since I bought them, some haven't. I'd prefer that they all went up but I didn't buy any of them because I was hoping they would.
What you are saying is rather hard to understand
You say you have boxes of coins ready to sell
I’m sorry excuse my ignorance but I was taught to sell things at a profit
How long does it take to turn your entire coin inventory? Every 7 days?
I wish. But i don't consider a bid/ask flip to be an "investment" in the context of the OP's question. I've never bought a coin hoping that it will go up in value while I'm holding it.
You never bought a coin hoping it would go up in value?
That’s a lie
I don't think so. There's a difference between hoping the value of a coin you own goes up and buying it for that reason.
Everyone who ever bought a coin, at least in the tiniest fractional way, has hoped the coin goes up in value.
Cmon guys
You need to reread what I wrote. There's a difference between hoping the value goes up and buying because you hope it does. I have boxes of coins ready to sell. Some have gone up in value since I bought them, some haven't. I'd prefer that they all went up but I didn't buy any of them because I was hoping they would.
What you are saying is rather hard to understand
You say you have boxes of coins ready to sell
I’m sorry excuse my ignorance but I was taught to sell things at a profit
Maybe you were raised differently
I think he's reminding you that hope is not a strategy to consistently realize profit.
Seated Half Society member #38 "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
How long does it take to turn your entire coin inventory? Every 7 days?
I wish. But i don't consider a bid/ask flip to be an "investment" in the context of the OP's question. I've never bought a coin hoping that it will go up in value while I'm holding it.
You never bought a coin hoping it would go up in value?
That’s a lie
No, it's not. I buy coins to sell immediately. I have never once bought a coin considering its future value.
How long does it take to turn your entire coin inventory? Every 7 days?
I wish. But i don't consider a bid/ask flip to be an "investment" in the context of the OP's question. I've never bought a coin hoping that it will go up in value while I'm holding it.
You never bought a coin hoping it would go up in value?
That’s a lie
He's got a strange business model
I've got a normal retail business model. Do you think Walmart buys dog food hoping it will go up in value?
I have only sold seven coins; six were after upgrading, and one was when I accidently bought an AU50 and an AU53 of the 1895-O Morgan dollar at the same (Great Collections) auction (and--after paying--just asked them to resell the AU50 for me). All have been slabbed.
I made small amounts on two of them, and lost small amounts on the other four. I was very lucky reselling the 1895-O, as it sold for more than I had just paid for it, for a net-net loss of only $18.50.
I don't buy with an intention to resell. But I do buy carefully, with the hope that I have paid a price for any relatively expensive coin that would allow me to recoup a good majority of the purchase price if/when (or my heirs) sell. I have no such fantasy for all the raw coins I have filling my albums, since I know that the likely end result for those will be a wholesale sale, probably at a substantial loss. But the vast majority of the value of my coin collections is in the slabbed coins, so that's ok.
To the extent that I detect any pattern in how my coins do (marketwise), it's that the better (meaning, to a large extent, more expensive) the coin is, the better it does marketwise.
How long does it take to turn your entire coin inventory? Every 7 days?
I wish. But i don't consider a bid/ask flip to be an "investment" in the context of the OP's question. I've never bought a coin hoping that it will go up in value while I'm holding it.
You never bought a coin hoping it would go up in value?
That’s a lie
I don't think so. There's a difference between hoping the value of a coin you own goes up and buying it for that reason.
This. You said it better than I did. I simply never consider the future value of anything when buying. If it's inventory, I'm looking at current value only. If I want it for myself, I pay what I'm willing to pay for it. I believe that every coin I buy to keep for awhile will underperform the stock market and possibly even the bond market. It is bought with disposable income only.
I've only said that about 500 times on this forum. I'm glad people can read my mind.
@jmlanzaf said:
I simply never consider the future value of anything when buying.
I think it's people who worry about what they will be able to sell a coin for before they've bought it that have the most difficulty understanding this point of view.
How long does it take to turn your entire coin inventory? Every 7 days?
I wish. But i don't consider a bid/ask flip to be an "investment" in the context of the OP's question. I've never bought a coin hoping that it will go up in value while I'm holding it.
You never bought a coin hoping it would go up in value?
That’s a lie
He's got a strange business model
I've got a normal retail business model. Do you think Walmart buys dog food hoping it will go up in value?
Wow, amazed you think coins and dog food are just items to flip.
Even though I do work in the industry, when it comes to my own collection, I’m very stubborn about selling, I pick my coins very carefully and like them a lot.
However, and I’ll say in advance, it’s not for sale, but this one has been really good to me pricewise:
Paid $1900 in March of 2019, current Greysheet is $4,400
Very true! I'm on the verge of completing my Type Set and certain coins (mainly 1 or 2 year type pieces) are getting much more difficult to find nice. I recall being able to find nice AU 1917 T1 SLQs for $175 to $200 about 5 years or so ago... they're now closer to $300. Ditto on Bust coinage. This go around, I'll pony up the dough... but then I'll be done with Type for a while.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
This is a hobby for most and a business for some. We each have our own ways of doing everything.
But most collectors even if not interested in profit or coins increasing in value will buy a coin they know is priced too low to trade it for something we need. We also almost all hope our collections will increase in value the very day we complete them.
I've had a lot of fun and met some of the worlds' best people over the years so no regrets.
How long does it take to turn your entire coin inventory? Every 7 days?
I wish. But i don't consider a bid/ask flip to be an "investment" in the context of the OP's question. I've never bought a coin hoping that it will go up in value while I'm holding it.
You never bought a coin hoping it would go up in value?
That’s a lie
He's got a strange business model
I've got a normal retail business model. Do you think Walmart buys dog food hoping it will go up in value?
Wow, amazed you think coins and dog food are just items to flip.
Dog food is a staple.
Coins are a work of art.
Apples to oranges.
I'm running a retail business. A commodity is a commodity. When i buy numismatic art, I still don't worry about the future price. I buy it because it's art and I enjoy it.
@Indianlincoln asked:
What coin did you purchase, held on to, then sold for a profit
How much did you make?
How long did you hold on to the coin ?
Future predictions on investment pieces?
>
Basically you win some, you lose some.
For what it is worth John Albanese at CAC, one of the smartest guys in the business recently said:
For investment purposes, I’d buy $1,000 coins and if given a choice, $250-$1,000 coins. I’d load up on proof mercury dimes and walkers, proof 65-66 3 cent , V and Shield nickels. And I’d buy a boatload of gem silver 1892-1939 commemoratives MS 65-66.
@jmlanzaf said:
I simply never consider the future value of anything when buying.
I think it's people who worry about what they will be able to sell a coin for before they've bought it that have the most difficulty understanding this point of view.
Both you and @jmlanzaf are primarily dealers, so when buying inventory you guys are mainly concerned with "what you will be able to sell a coin for", am I right? With your characterization of "people who worry", are you implying that collectors need not concern themselves with things like like liquidity and value when buying?
@DeplorableDan said:
Both you and @jmlanzaf are primarily dealers, so when buying inventory you guys are mainly concerned with "what you will be able to sell a coin for", am I right?
I'm more of a hobby seller and I buy coins that I think I can sell for enough more than I have paid that it's worth the trouble to do so. Mostly it works that way, sometimes not. I don't really ever think about what any of those coins might be worth somewhere down the road.
@DeplorableDan said:
With your characterization of "people who worry", are you implying that collectors need not concern themselves with things like like liquidity and value when buying?
No. I'm saying it's people like that who sometimes have a hard time understanding those who are not worried about liquidity and value when buying. I buy coins for my collection because I like them and I'm willing to pay what the seller is asking. Liquidity and value (as determined by anybody else but me) for those coins are not important to me when deciding to buy something.
@jmlanzaf said:
I simply never consider the future value of anything when buying.
I think it's people who worry about what they will be able to sell a coin for before they've bought it that have the most difficulty understanding this point of view.
Both you and @jmlanzaf are primarily dealers, so when buying inventory you guys are mainly concerned with "what you will be able to sell a coin for", am I right? With your characterization of "people who worry", are you implying that collectors need not concern themselves with things like like liquidity and value when buying?
At the risk of aggravating others by clarifying, I also said that I don't think about future appreciation even for coins I don't immediately sell. The coin market rarely keeps up with other investment vehicles. I only spend disposable income on coins. I believe in "opportunity costs".
I have a couple hundred coins in my safe that I've had for 20 years or more. I have no idea what current market value is. I don't track it or look it up. I like them for what they are. And I've never once thought about what they may someday be worth.
I've said it before, and people are free to disagree, but I consider hobby costs sunk costs. I don't expect or care if I get my money back. Of course, that also means I don't stretch on coins to put in my personal safe. I'd rather just have fun.
Business is business. My hobbies are for fun.
[I also think it is a mistake to mix the two. But I'll save that discussion for another day. ]
I believe this one has increase percentage wise more than any coin I currently own. POP in RD appears to be driving this price.
I had been watching the price on this date in MS-64 RD for several months back in 2021 and the price just kept going up. I didn't want to be priced out of ever owning one, so I jumped on this one in Jan 2022 at Heritage. I was missing this date in my complete collection of Lincoln's all MS-64 RD/RB or higher except for the '22 plain. And still, the price appears to continues to climb. Now at $9,500 and for a + is now at a staggering $48,500. A little crazy.
@Tramp said:
I believe this one has increase percentage wise more than any coin I currently own. POP in RD appears to be driving this price.
I had been watching the price on this date in MS-64 RD for several months back in 2021 and the price just kept going up. I didn't want to be priced out of ever owning one. I was missing this date in my complete collection of Lincoln's all MS-64 RD/RB or higher except for the '22 plain. And still, the price appears to continues to climb. Now at $9,500 and for a + is now at a staggering $48,500. A little crazy.
Those are more rare than s vdb in mint state rb.
Many have been dipped
That is a good investment coin
Like most high grade Lincoln key dates and semi keys
@MasonG said:>
I'm more of a hobby seller and I buy coins that I think I can sell for enough more than I have paid that it's worth the trouble to do so. Mostly it works that way, sometimes not. I don't really ever think about what any of those coins might be worth somewhere down the road.
Thank you for the clarification, completely understandable from a business point of view
@MasonG said:>
No. I'm saying it's people like that who sometimes have a hard time understanding those who are not worried about liquidity and value when buying. I buy coins for my collection because I like them and I'm willing to pay what the seller is asking. Liquidity and value (as determined by anybody else but me) for those coins are not important to me when deciding to buy something.
Ok, that's a reasonable position. I was only asking for clarification because I have seen other comments on this forum (must not have been you) that have made statements to the effect of "How could you possibly be having any fun worrying about value or whether not you paid a good price?" IMO, some of the people with your point of view have difficulty understanding mine.
I am one of the collectors who "worry about what I could sell a coin for" when I'm buying, but I completely understand the opposite view of using only discretionary funds to make purchases, i.e "Sunk costs". One thing for all readers to keep in mind, is that there is no right answer and each member who opines on this subject is speaking from their own perspective. Someone who buys relatively inexpensive coins can write it off as a discretionary purchase with disposable income, but someone who buys a coin for $5000 or more is most likely not writing off the expense as as they would a vacation. I don't purchase coins for my collection based on my expectations of future value, but I like to hope that the value will increase over time. Each purchase merits its own level of scrutiny based on eye appeal, rarity, opportunity cost. Some coins need extra scrutiny if theres potential for significant pop increases in the near future (Hoards, shipwrecks, Fairmont etc.).
I have a somewhat significant (to me) amount of funds parked in my collection, and I'm comfortable taking that risk. Am I expecting the coins to perform like the S&P? Absolutely not, but with the way inflation has been going Im fairly confident that in 40-50 years when Im old and gray, my collection will still have significant value that could be meaningful to me or my future heir/s. If I'm wrong, oh well, but losing money on coins is still more fun than losing money in the stock market.
@MasonG said:>
No. I'm saying it's people like that who sometimes have a hard time understanding those who are not worried about liquidity and value when buying. I buy coins for my collection because I like them and I'm willing to pay what the seller is asking. Liquidity and value (as determined by anybody else but me) for those coins are not important to me when deciding to buy something.
Ok, that's a reasonable position. I was only asking for clarification because I have seen other comments on this forum (must not have been you) that have made statements to the effect of "How could you possibly be having any fun worrying about value or whether not you paid a good price?"
It's possible I could have said something along those lines (I'm not going back to check) and if so, it was intended to be understood as "I couldn't possibly be having any fun worrying about value or whether not I paid a good price".
@DeplorableDan said:
One thing for all readers to keep in mind, is that there is no right answer and each member who opines on this subject is speaking from their own perspective.
Sure.
@DeplorableDan said:
Someone who buys relatively inexpensive coins can write it off as a discretionary purchase with disposable income, but someone who buys a coin for $5000 or more is most likely not writing off the expense as as they would a vacation.
Different people are working with different levels of financial resources and "relatively inexpensive" is a matter of where you stand on that continuum. What's relatively inexpensive for one person could easily be prohibitively expensive for another. I've never come close to spending $5000 for a coin but I doubt Elon Musk would even think twice about such a purchase. The vacation scenario has been brought up here before and for my purposes, I don't see the cost of one being any different than spending the same amount of money for coins- either way, the money is spent. I understand not everybody sees it this way.
@DeplorableDan said:
I don't purchase coins for my collection based on my expectations of future value, but I do hope that the value will increase over time.
I hope my purchases do, too. I just don't depend on that hope to help me decide whether or not to buy a coin.
@DeplorableDan said:
I have a somewhat significant (to me) amount of funds parked in my collection, and I'm comfortable taking that risk. Am I expecting the coins to perform like the S&P? Absolutely not, but with the way inflation has been going Im fairly confident that in 40-50 years when Im old and gray, my collection will still have significant value that could be meaningful to me or my future heir/s.
I can't say with any reliability what I've got tied up in my collection since (for financial planning purposes) I don't track it in any meaningful way aside from having records of having spent the money. I've been collecting for over 50 years so it's probably way more than I'd be comfortable with spending over a shorter period of time, but there it is. I also have a lot of coins I've bought with the intention to resell and have not yet gotten around to doing so (I find that it tends to be easier to buy stuff than to sell it) but as you noted, there's inflation to account for and I expect I'll be alright on those- most of them, anyway. As far as heirs, I don't have anybody who'll be depending on me, which makes many decisions easier.
@DeplorableDan said:
If I'm wrong, oh well, but losing money on coins is still more fun than losing money in the stock market.
I do appreciate the clarification. Although we have opposing views of a few minor things, we both agree that numismatics is not a great investment vehicle and purchases for our collections should be based on enjoyment as the #1 priority.
To answer the OP question, my best win so far was a type 1 DE that I bought at the end of 2021 on GC for $3000 in AU58. I CAC'd it and resold it a year later for $4500 on GC when I upgraded to a better date. Timing had a lot to do with this since the gold market had been surging, but I haven't been in the hobby at this level for long and many of my coins will be with me for a long time. Agree with others that the single best investment into the hobby one can make, is time.
Right now is a unique point in time for numismatics. Like most everything else, prices have increased nearly across the board on just about any series of coin. We are on the backside of a global pandemic that forced prices for most goods up significantly. Housing, transportation, food, lumber, clothing, etc. I don't know if there is a direct correlation to numismatic values increasing as well, but they certainly have. Many coins are at all time highs as far as value. So, if you are looking at numismatic coins as investment vehicles, right now is a horrible time to buy, but a great time to sell , holdings.
For me personally, I rarely sell anything because this is a hobby that I deeply enjoy. I also collect antiques, firearms, and being a Star Wars nerd, I collect Star Wars related things like light sabers, helmets, etc.
I understand @Indianlincoln original question, and do recognize that my collections have potential investment value, but as many have pointed out, the bottom could fall out of the market tomorrow and all the investment potential would be gone.
Currently, my entire collection has over doubled in value since 2020, but I have no plans to sell. If you have coins purchased prior to 2020, now might be a great time to sell, if profit is your motivation.
This is the way...
Best regards, Dwayne F. Sessom Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
It's my perception that people are either realizing life is too short so pay higher prices to obtain that life long dream or they are investing their money in something they hope will retain value over the long run, thus driving up the prices e.g. short supply and high demand. You see this across the board like classic cars, coins, antiques, etc.
@daltex said:
I'm in the process of trading almost everything for a once in a lifetime opportunity, and the prices are really surprising me. I'm getting killed on my early Washingtons (by and large) and proof Ikes. I think the biggest hit has been a gold Kennedy. Huge gain on the 69, so I have high hopes for the 70.
The gold Kennedy has been creeping up in value of late, and should be a gainer as long as it wasn't purchased in the mania upon its release. Washingtons in particular are great buys if building and or upgrading a collection. Not really if selling, though the '32 PDS and '36-D s appear to be inching up in MS grades.
Comments
Everyone who ever bought a coin, at least in the tiniest fractional way, has hoped the coin goes up in value.
Cmon guys
I understand people live for this hobby
I understand how much people love this hobby
But no one has died on the cross for numismatics
You need to reread what I wrote. There's a difference between hoping the value goes up and buying because you hope it does. I have boxes of coins ready to sell. Some have gone up in value since I bought them, some haven't. I'd prefer that they all went up but I didn't buy any of them because I was hoping they would.
Every coin I buy goes up in value.
What you are saying is rather hard to understand
You say you have boxes of coins ready to sell
I’m sorry excuse my ignorance but I was taught to sell things at a profit
Maybe you were raised differently
All though with some of the stories told around here, it would seem some have tried. 🙀
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I think he's reminding you that hope is not a strategy to consistently realize profit.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I put it in as few words as I could. Sorry you're having trouble.
Yes.
That's what I do. Occasionally, it doesn't work out that way but that's just how it goes.
Maybe so.
No, it's not. I buy coins to sell immediately. I have never once bought a coin considering its future value.
I've got a normal retail business model. Do you think Walmart buys dog food hoping it will go up in value?
I have only sold seven coins; six were after upgrading, and one was when I accidently bought an AU50 and an AU53 of the 1895-O Morgan dollar at the same (Great Collections) auction (and--after paying--just asked them to resell the AU50 for me). All have been slabbed.
I made small amounts on two of them, and lost small amounts on the other four. I was very lucky reselling the 1895-O, as it sold for more than I had just paid for it, for a net-net loss of only $18.50.
I don't buy with an intention to resell. But I do buy carefully, with the hope that I have paid a price for any relatively expensive coin that would allow me to recoup a good majority of the purchase price if/when (or my heirs) sell. I have no such fantasy for all the raw coins I have filling my albums, since I know that the likely end result for those will be a wholesale sale, probably at a substantial loss. But the vast majority of the value of my coin collections is in the slabbed coins, so that's ok.
To the extent that I detect any pattern in how my coins do (marketwise), it's that the better (meaning, to a large extent, more expensive) the coin is, the better it does marketwise.
This. You said it better than I did. I simply never consider the future value of anything when buying. If it's inventory, I'm looking at current value only. If I want it for myself, I pay what I'm willing to pay for it. I believe that every coin I buy to keep for awhile will underperform the stock market and possibly even the bond market. It is bought with disposable income only.
I've only said that about 500 times on this forum. I'm glad people can read my mind.
I think it's people who worry about what they will be able to sell a coin for before they've bought it that have the most difficulty understanding this point of view.
Those are the coins I specialize in these days. For example, this lovely gem 1840-O WB6 (rated as an R6).
Wow, amazed you think coins and dog food are just items to flip.
Dog food is a staple.
Coins are a work of art.
Apples to oranges.
@jmlanzaf @MasonG
You guys are a rare breed
Hope Wal mart has the right dog food for ya
Sometimes the best advice is to do the opposite of the "best" advice
Even though I do work in the industry, when it comes to my own collection, I’m very stubborn about selling, I pick my coins very carefully and like them a lot.
However, and I’ll say in advance, it’s not for sale, but this one has been really good to me pricewise:
Paid $1900 in March of 2019, current Greysheet is $4,400
My YouTube Channel
Very true! I'm on the verge of completing my Type Set and certain coins (mainly 1 or 2 year type pieces) are getting much more difficult to find nice. I recall being able to find nice AU 1917 T1 SLQs for $175 to $200 about 5 years or so ago... they're now closer to $300. Ditto on Bust coinage. This go around, I'll pony up the dough... but then I'll be done with Type for a while.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
"Best personal numismatic investment"
Divorce lawyer
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
I clicked "agree" but actually I think this is always the case.
This is a hobby for most and a business for some. We each have our own ways of doing everything.
But most collectors even if not interested in profit or coins increasing in value will buy a coin they know is priced too low to trade it for something we need. We also almost all hope our collections will increase in value the very day we complete them.
I've had a lot of fun and met some of the worlds' best people over the years so no regrets.
To each his own.
I'm running a retail business. A commodity is a commodity. When i buy numismatic art, I still don't worry about the future price. I buy it because it's art and I enjoy it.
Glad to be rare, even unique.
It's very liberating to just enjoy your purchases without worrying about a future value that is impossible to predict.
If you're buying from someone who calls it "numismatic art", you need to worry about the current price.
Some coin dealers specialize in his extremely high quality inventory that their customers really appreciate finding all in one place.
Other dealers flip almost anything to make an instant profits and do not care about quality only quantity to make dollars.
At the end of the day who are you going to buy from to put coins into your personal collection.
Another thread ruined fighting over semantics.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
>
Basically you win some, you lose some.
For what it is worth John Albanese at CAC, one of the smartest guys in the business recently said:
For investment purposes, I’d buy $1,000 coins and if given a choice, $250-$1,000 coins. I’d load up on proof mercury dimes and walkers, proof 65-66 3 cent , V and Shield nickels. And I’d buy a boatload of gem silver 1892-1939 commemoratives MS 65-66.
AND OF COURSE THEY WOULD BE CAC!
I was in a real coin store for the first time in probably 10 years.
We almost instantly got into a fight about semantics when I ask if he had any error coins.
He proudly said he had a 55 double die.
I said, I do not do double dies.
He said it was a major error and I said well technically it is a variety and I only do real error coins.
It went downhill from there
I’ve never bought a coin with the expectation that it will go down in value. That’s not to say I haven’t had my fair share of coins go down in value.
Time for this?🙀
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I picture myself standing next to you with this look on my face -__- waiting to ask to see a coin
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Both you and @jmlanzaf are primarily dealers, so when buying inventory you guys are mainly concerned with "what you will be able to sell a coin for", am I right? With your characterization of "people who worry", are you implying that collectors need not concern themselves with things like like liquidity and value when buying?
Founder- Peak Rarities
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I'm more of a hobby seller and I buy coins that I think I can sell for enough more than I have paid that it's worth the trouble to do so. Mostly it works that way, sometimes not. I don't really ever think about what any of those coins might be worth somewhere down the road.
No. I'm saying it's people like that who sometimes have a hard time understanding those who are not worried about liquidity and value when buying. I buy coins for my collection because I like them and I'm willing to pay what the seller is asking. Liquidity and value (as determined by anybody else but me) for those coins are not important to me when deciding to buy something.
At the risk of aggravating others by clarifying, I also said that I don't think about future appreciation even for coins I don't immediately sell. The coin market rarely keeps up with other investment vehicles. I only spend disposable income on coins. I believe in "opportunity costs".
I have a couple hundred coins in my safe that I've had for 20 years or more. I have no idea what current market value is. I don't track it or look it up. I like them for what they are. And I've never once thought about what they may someday be worth.
I've said it before, and people are free to disagree, but I consider hobby costs sunk costs. I don't expect or care if I get my money back. Of course, that also means I don't stretch on coins to put in my personal safe. I'd rather just have fun.
Business is business. My hobbies are for fun.
[I also think it is a mistake to mix the two. But I'll save that discussion for another day. ]
I believe this one has increase percentage wise more than any coin I currently own. POP in RD appears to be driving this price.
I had been watching the price on this date in MS-64 RD for several months back in 2021 and the price just kept going up. I didn't want to be priced out of ever owning one, so I jumped on this one in Jan 2022 at Heritage. I was missing this date in my complete collection of Lincoln's all MS-64 RD/RB or higher except for the '22 plain. And still, the price appears to continues to climb. Now at $9,500 and for a + is now at a staggering $48,500. A little crazy.
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
Those are more rare than s vdb in mint state rb.
Many have been dipped
That is a good investment coin
Like most high grade Lincoln key dates and semi keys
Coin people arguing?
Never heard of such a thing.
Hope it never starts happening on these message boards.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Thank you for the clarification, completely understandable from a business point of view
Ok, that's a reasonable position. I was only asking for clarification because I have seen other comments on this forum (must not have been you) that have made statements to the effect of "How could you possibly be having any fun worrying about value or whether not you paid a good price?" IMO, some of the people with your point of view have difficulty understanding mine.
I am one of the collectors who "worry about what I could sell a coin for" when I'm buying, but I completely understand the opposite view of using only discretionary funds to make purchases, i.e "Sunk costs". One thing for all readers to keep in mind, is that there is no right answer and each member who opines on this subject is speaking from their own perspective. Someone who buys relatively inexpensive coins can write it off as a discretionary purchase with disposable income, but someone who buys a coin for $5000 or more is most likely not writing off the expense as as they would a vacation. I don't purchase coins for my collection based on my expectations of future value, but I like to hope that the value will increase over time. Each purchase merits its own level of scrutiny based on eye appeal, rarity, opportunity cost. Some coins need extra scrutiny if theres potential for significant pop increases in the near future (Hoards, shipwrecks, Fairmont etc.).
I have a somewhat significant (to me) amount of funds parked in my collection, and I'm comfortable taking that risk. Am I expecting the coins to perform like the S&P? Absolutely not, but with the way inflation has been going Im fairly confident that in 40-50 years when Im old and gray, my collection will still have significant value that could be meaningful to me or my future heir/s. If I'm wrong, oh well, but losing money on coins is still more fun than losing money in the stock market.
Founder- Peak Rarities
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It's possible I could have said something along those lines (I'm not going back to check) and if so, it was intended to be understood as "I couldn't possibly be having any fun worrying about value or whether not I paid a good price".
Sure.
Different people are working with different levels of financial resources and "relatively inexpensive" is a matter of where you stand on that continuum. What's relatively inexpensive for one person could easily be prohibitively expensive for another. I've never come close to spending $5000 for a coin but I doubt Elon Musk would even think twice about such a purchase. The vacation scenario has been brought up here before and for my purposes, I don't see the cost of one being any different than spending the same amount of money for coins- either way, the money is spent. I understand not everybody sees it this way.
I hope my purchases do, too. I just don't depend on that hope to help me decide whether or not to buy a coin.
I can't say with any reliability what I've got tied up in my collection since (for financial planning purposes) I don't track it in any meaningful way aside from having records of having spent the money. I've been collecting for over 50 years so it's probably way more than I'd be comfortable with spending over a shorter period of time, but there it is. I also have a lot of coins I've bought with the intention to resell and have not yet gotten around to doing so (I find that it tends to be easier to buy stuff than to sell it) but as you noted, there's inflation to account for and I expect I'll be alright on those- most of them, anyway. As far as heirs, I don't have anybody who'll be depending on me, which makes many decisions easier.
Can't argue with that.
@MasonG
I do appreciate the clarification. Although we have opposing views of a few minor things, we both agree that numismatics is not a great investment vehicle and purchases for our collections should be based on enjoyment as the #1 priority.
To answer the OP question, my best win so far was a type 1 DE that I bought at the end of 2021 on GC for $3000 in AU58. I CAC'd it and resold it a year later for $4500 on GC when I upgraded to a better date. Timing had a lot to do with this since the gold market had been surging, but I haven't been in the hobby at this level for long and many of my coins will be with me for a long time. Agree with others that the single best investment into the hobby one can make, is time.
Founder- Peak Rarities
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My Library is my most important investment and has returned the most.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Right now is a unique point in time for numismatics. Like most everything else, prices have increased nearly across the board on just about any series of coin. We are on the backside of a global pandemic that forced prices for most goods up significantly. Housing, transportation, food, lumber, clothing, etc. I don't know if there is a direct correlation to numismatic values increasing as well, but they certainly have. Many coins are at all time highs as far as value. So, if you are looking at numismatic coins as investment vehicles, right now is a horrible time to buy, but a great time to sell , holdings.
For me personally, I rarely sell anything because this is a hobby that I deeply enjoy. I also collect antiques, firearms, and being a Star Wars nerd, I collect Star Wars related things like light sabers, helmets, etc.
I understand @Indianlincoln original question, and do recognize that my collections have potential investment value, but as many have pointed out, the bottom could fall out of the market tomorrow and all the investment potential would be gone.
Currently, my entire collection has over doubled in value since 2020, but I have no plans to sell. If you have coins purchased prior to 2020, now might be a great time to sell, if profit is your motivation.
This is the way...
Dwayne F. Sessom
Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
I think it was more trashed than ruined.
@dsessom
It's my perception that people are either realizing life is too short so pay higher prices to obtain that life long dream or they are investing their money in something they hope will retain value over the long run, thus driving up the prices e.g. short supply and high demand. You see this across the board like classic cars, coins, antiques, etc.
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
This may be the single funniest post I've ever seen on this board.
Beat me to it! I absolutely agree.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
The gold Kennedy has been creeping up in value of late, and should be a gainer as long as it wasn't purchased in the mania upon its release. Washingtons in particular are great buys if building and or upgrading a collection. Not really if selling, though the '32 PDS and '36-D s appear to be inching up in MS grades.
Inspired by the memory of my friend, Alan Smithee, who loved to troll irate people for laughs with dry, Bob Newhart style humor.
[An angel just got its wings!]