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Any info on Union Mine Oregon Territory counterstamps on Seated Coinage?

Does anyone have any information on these pieces. Both are graded details, damaged by PCGS with no other information on the holders.
Devin

Comments

  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd imagine that if PCGS is willing to encapsulate them it means they are listed in a PCGS-accepted reference work. You may want to hunt down what references PCGS uses for this type of piece.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • @TomB, okay, I've been searching their website and will continue to look around. They said nothing about the counterstamp on the holders though. I will try to get a picture of the slabs next week.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Two observations:

    First, they were stamped with individual punches so authentication would be difficult at best.

    Second, the style of the letters is not what I associate with the 19th century. It is similar to punches that have come out of India and China in recent decades.

    More research is definitely warranted.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmmmmm! Why do I suspect something may not be right about these pieces in spite of their having been slabbed?

    All glory is fleeting.
  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Alternatively, since PCGS has given these a 98 designation, they may simply be lumping the two pieces in with other damaged coins that include graffiti. If so, PCGS might not be making any statement as to when the punches were applied to the coins or by whom. If that is the case then they very well might view the punches as newly done, but placing them into these holders creates confusion.

    This is what I think PCGS has done.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe something like a badge for workers in the mine?

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,544 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know nothing about them

    That said, I am suspicious concerning them. That Dime circulated a long time before it was counterstamped, but that half dollar did not.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,989 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2023 1:44PM

    @CaptHenway said:
    I know nothing about them

    That said, I am suspicious concerning them. That Dime circulated a long time before it was counterstamped, but that half dollar did not.

    Neither appears to have had much handling wear AFTER the counter-stamping.
    I would expect them to have such wear, if genuine territorial vintage.

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Perhaps a casual visit to the Brunk catalog (among other sources) would have been in order prior to slabbing them with the implications that go along with the process. Perhaps if a Brunk catalog is not in the reference library a purchase of the same might be in order before slabbing more counterstamps or at least have the phone # of a knowledgeable consultant at hand.

    All the services have encountered problems when they drive too far outside of their established lanes without a competent guide -- on the other hand most/all of the services do slab fantasies (but usually not of this sort).

  • CaptainBluntCaptainBlunt Posts: 180 ✭✭✭

    I think there is at least one small bullion bar linked to this entity. It’s stamped value was $24.35. I think it came out of the Lilly Collection and was donated to the Smithsonian. Just because it is still probably in their collection does not mean that it is real. Did it come from Don Keefer, or Paul Franklin, or John Ford Jr, I don’t know who “discovered” it before it ended up in the Lilly Collection. Maybe if you wrote to them they could provide an image….Just referring to my notes taken a long time ago…

  • KoveKove Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭✭

    As long as the original coin is genuine, then a Details "damage" holder with no mention of the grafiti text on the PCGS label seems entirely appropriate.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    I know nothing about them

    That said, I am suspicious concerning them. That Dime circulated a long time before it was counterstamped, but that half dollar did not.

    And the half dollar has been holed. A good way to turn a cull coin into a "rarity"?

    All glory is fleeting.
  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,670 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, they are marked as company store scrip at 1 & 5 dollars so there's that. Link indicates the mine discovery date is 1875. Anyone check Tokencatalog.com and Numista?

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  • CuprinkorCuprinkor Posts: 199 ✭✭✭

    I would forward those pictures to Bob Busby. (TOKENBOB@aol.com). He knows a lot about various exonumia.

  • CuprinkorCuprinkor Posts: 199 ✭✭✭

    He's the preeminent expert on Oregon tokens and exonumia.

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