Post your New York nationals!

Ted 1

New thread, Post your New York nationals, small & large.

Ppp

Ted 1

Terrific note!

2ndCharter

Don't get me started because I will never be able to stop.

SaorAlba

My earliest National, my only one from New York and my only Ace.

Ted 1

@2ndCharter said:
Don't get me started because I will never be able to stop.

Wow. Talk about a rarity!!!!

tomtomtomtom

johnny9434

@tomtomtomtom said:

I like these type notes

mosjcoin

vsamovsk

some ny nationals

vsamovsk

Steve27

DoctorPaper

Some Nassau County, NY “Bee” towns:

DoctorPaper

More NY ‘Bee’s’ but of a different type. #2370, only small sized nationals issued with B suffixes. #29: only large sized nationals issued with B prefixes. The #29 pictured here is a a RADAR to boot!

DoctorPaper

New York Nationals-Fun with Numbers:

RADAR:

REPEATER:

RADAR/REPEATER:

DoctorPaper

New York Naionals-Serial number 1’s (and a 2):

Note the different signatures on the #1 and 2!!

Steve_in_Tampa

Remarkable notes, thanks for sharing Joe.

DoctorPaper

Thanks @Steve_in_Tampa
This thread has given me a chance to logically organize some of my collection (and thoughts) a bit.

New York Nationals-Remarkable top edges:

Jam-Packed selvedge. Notice the nice birth year serial:

Note separated crudely from its mates, maybe torn along a ruler or other straight edge:

DoctorPaper

New York Nationals-Ink Issues:

Moderately insufficient ink for black third printing stage, bank name, officers and charter numbers:

Severely insufficient ink for third stage of printing. In hand with a strong light you can make out the note is from charter #1301, National Commercial Bank & Trust, Albany, NY.

Much less dramatic inking error, some obstruction of he bank name:

DoctorPaper

NY Nationals-Large size series 1902 nationals with prefix letters.

For 1902 series national notes, when a particular bank issued more than 999,999 sheets of notes for a single denomination, the serial number was reset to 1 and the Prefix ‘A’ added to the serial, i.e. A1. If 999,999 sheets of A-prefixed notes of a denomination were issued, then the process was repeated, this time with a ‘B’ prefixed notes, and so on. Only 5 national banks in the US issued sufficient notes to require the use of lettered prefixes, and 2 of these were in NYC, #29 First National Bank, which issued $5, $10 and $20 A-prefixed notes and #891, National Park Bank, which issued $5 and $10 A-prefixed notes. Additionally, #29 also issued B-prefixed $5 notes. It was the only bank in the US to issue B-prefixed notes (and A-prefixed $20 bills).

Here is the entire denomination set of New York National Currency series 1902 Plain Back prefixed notes:

DoctorPaper

NY Nationals-Pretty scarce Nassau County towns (15 or fewer total notes, large and small) reported from each. West Hempstead is interesting, in that although the overprint suggests it’s from the rather common town of Hempstead, the accepted convention is that notes from this bank, #13104, actually derive from the smaller, rarer, independent village of West Hempstead.

DoctorPaper

New York Nationals-Contemporary Counterfeits. Pawling and Utica.

DoctorPaper

New York Nationals- Odds & Ends, part 1:

Different kind of “star.” Small stars were placed on plates that became worn by heavy use that had been ‘re-entered’ and had their designs strengthened by pressing the master plate into the design. Most of examples of starred notes were series 1875 $5 nationals, but there were a few 1882 Brownbacks with this feature as well. Here’s a starred $5 from Utica, New York.

Obverse plate letters were employed to to show the plate position of printed national currency and other notes. Large sized national plates contained four subjects, so the first set of plates for a denomination issued by a particular bank consisted of notes in positions A, B, C, and D. When the plates wore out, they were replaced by notes engraved with letters E, F, G and H, and so on down through the alphabet. There were no Y and Z plates and the series of plate labelling continued as needed with numeric superscripts to denote how many cycles the plates had gone through. The more notes issued by a bank the higher the superscripts became. Because #29, the FNB of NYC issued more $5’s than another other National Bank, they rolled through more plates than any other bank. Here’s a $5 bill from near the end of the $5 series emitted by #29. It was printed off plate X6, the highest known obverse plate number of any note in the entire US currency series.

coinkat

DoctorPaper

NY Nationals- Odds & Ends, part 2.
This is the end of what I’ve got to post:

Throughout most of the history of their production, 1865-1928, large-sized nationals arrived at “their” banks in uncut 4 subject sheets. The notes were then signed by the bank officers and cut apart, then distributed to bank customers, as needed. Eventually, banks used rubber stamps to impress officer signatures. Later, many banks, particularly larger ones, found the signing and cutting process wasteful of time for their employees, so they farmed out the process of affixing officer signatures and cutting apart the notes to local firms, usually private printing concerns, who returned the signed, separated notes to the bank.
As an added service, the US BEP offered, for a fee, to put a bank’s notes through their presses for a fourth time to place appropriate printed officer signatures onto a bank’s notes and to cut them apart, delivering the notes in packs, just like regular federal bills. However, the cost of this service must have been considered exorbitant by BEP customers since only a single bank availed themselves of this extended service, #10778, the Chatham-Phenix NB&T Co. of NYC. Near the very end of the era of large sized nationals, the BEP engraved bank officer signatures directly onto National currency printing plates, so its secondary post production printing services were no longer needed.
A note from the only bank with BEP applied signatures:

Some collectors amass National Currency by occupations noted in a bank’s name. Given the unusual nature of the occupation named, specimens of notes from Sayville NY’s #5186, are highly sought:

Finally, an unusual Fancy serial number on a national, the serial number of the note matches the telephone area code of the town where the bank is located, in this case, Bellmore, NY, (516).

Steve_in_Tampa

Great information Joe, thanks for sharing.

STLNATS

@DoctorPaper said:
NY Nationals-Large size series 1902 nationals with prefix letters.

For 1902 series national notes, when a particular bank issued more than 999,999 sheets of notes for a single denomination, the serial number was reset to 1 and the Prefix ‘A’ added to the serial, i.e. A1. If 999,999 sheets of A-prefixed notes of a denomination were issued, then the process was repeated, this time with a ‘B’ prefixed notes, and so on. Only 5 national banks in the US issued sufficient notes to require the use of lettered prefixes, and 2 of these were in NYC, #29 First National Bank, which issued $5, $10 and $20 A-prefixed notes and #891, National Park Bank, which issued $5 and $10 A-prefixed notes. Additionally, #29 also issued B-prefixed $5 notes. It was the only bank in the US to issue B-prefixed notes (and A-prefixed $20 bills).

Here is the entire denomination set of New York National Currency series 1902 Plain Back prefixed notes:

Here is the entire set of 1902 Dated Back prefixed notes, which happens to be NY. The bank suspended their circulation for a while, otherwise they may have reached a B prefix as well.

DoctorPaper

@STLNATS said:

Here is the entire set of 1902 Dated Back prefixed notes, which happens to be NY. The bank suspended their circulation for a while, otherwise they may have reached a B prefix as well.

As you know, I’ve admired the note you just posted. It is one of only 4 prefixed notes reported in the whole ‘02DB series and would complete my set. As far as I know the highest serial number $5 bill reported from thus bank is A144xxx, so they would had a long way to get to the ‘B’ transition.

As a side note, I’m surprised more of these #733 A-prefixed ‘02DB’s haven’t surfaced. With four notes to a sheet, more than a half million of these notes were printed and released into circulation. I’ll just keep watching.

STLNATS

@DoctorPaper said:

@STLNATS said:

As far as I know the highest serial number $5 bill reported from thus bank is A144xxx, so they would had a long way to get to the ‘B’ transition.

As a side note, I’m surprised more of these #733 A-prefixed ‘02DB’s haven’t surfaced. With four notes to a sheet, more than a half million of these notes were printed and released into circulation. I’ll just keep watching.

I agree that it would have been unlikely that a "B" for a DB would have been issued, but what I meant to say was the bank's PBs might have reached that level had it continued to issue circulation. From 9.1M in 1913, the bank hit a high O/S circ of $23.9M due to the issuance of emergency currency in the fall after the start of WWI. In 1915 circ had dropped to just $3.4M in 1915 and to a tiny $155k in 1916. Circ was reported as 0 thru 1928 and the bank liquidated in the spring of 1929.

Regarding survivors, there are 59 DBs $5s in the NBN Census. Five of these are A prefixed but this does not include my A note nor another I'm aware of for a total of 7 and total DBs of 61. That is, A prefixed notes represent about 11% of the reported notes (plus 2). Of the almost 4.593M date back $5s that were issued, about 13% are A prefixed. I'm aware of the issues associated with the census, but as a SWAG, the number of reported A notes is roughly in line with the % of A notes issued. But there may well be a few more floating around somewhere...

jonruns

jonruns

jonruns

jonruns

jonruns

jonruns

DoctorPaper

@jonruns:
Very cool upstate NY notes from little towns in nice condition.
Got one from the area just upriver (the Hudson) from the village of Catskill.

2ndCharter

A recent pickup from a Lyn Knight auction - we'll see what PMG has to say about it. It wasn't mentioned in the lot description but this is actually an ex-Grinnell note that later appeared in a 1956 Kosoff sale and then a 1977 Hickman-Oakes sale.

Steve_in_Tampa

Super nice 1902 red seal National @2ndCharter, and a serial number one to boot.

DoctorPaper

A beauty!! Look at those signatures. I guess it somehow must have escaped the attention of Jesse L. When he was building his monster set of #1 red seals.

mosjcoin

This one is on its way here. Just a remarkable replacement serial number 1. Sam

Steve_in_Tampa

Beautiful small-size National @mosjcoin, and serial number 1 to boot !

coinkat

Ted 1

@mosjcoin said:
This one is on its way here. Just a remarkable replacement serial number 1. Sam

Amazing. Saw it on GC, wondered who the lucky guy was. Very very nice