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I purchased a Merc dime today

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
edited February 6, 2023 2:53PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Thank you for your help

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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2023 10:35AM

    I see the coin as a nice 66, tops.

    There are quite a few marks on Liberty's cheek and the color isn't bright enough for a 68.

    Edit: I also agree it should go FB.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    KAJ1KAJ1 Posts: 768 ✭✭✭

    68 is a lofty grade in a PCGS holder.
    66+ OR 67 FB

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,056 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That looks like a very nice coin. However, I hope you don’t think you’re going to be able to cross it into a PCGS holder at the same grade.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,751 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the look. I think our hosts will call it 66 FB


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
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    dsessomdsessom Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @telephoto1 said:
    I like the look. I think our hosts will call it 66 FB

    Agreed, and this is the reason why I prefer PCGS graded coins over other services. Their standards are the tightest in the business.

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    I would be happy with a 66. Anything better would be a bonus. The dealer was fair in the pricing at just under $400 including tax and delivery. I'm stoked.

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2023 10:50AM

    @Watchtower said:
    I would be happy with a 66. Anything better would be a bonus. The dealer was fair in the pricing at just under $400 including tax and delivery. I'm stoked.

    Do you know what 66FB and even 67FB examples typically sell for?

    By the way, to be clear, my comments and questions aren’t in any way, an indictment of the very good dealer who sold the coin.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    I would be happy with a 66. Anything better would be a bonus. The dealer was fair in the pricing at just under $400 including tax and delivery. I'm stoked.

    ummmm..... who wants to be the one to tell him?

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    JJMJJM Posts: 7,983 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2023 10:50AM

    I think it will cross 66FB

    👍BST's erickso1,cone10,MICHAELDIXON,TennesseeDave,p8nt,jmdm1194,RWW,robkool,Ahrensdad,Timbuk3,Downtown1974,bigjpst,mustanggt,Yorkshireman,idratherbgardening,SurfinxHI,derryb,masscrew,Walkerguy21D,MJ1927,sniocsu,Coll3tor,doubleeagle07,luciobar1980,PerryHall,SNMAM,mbcoin,liefgold,keyman64,maprince230,TorinoCobra71,RB1026,Weiss,LukeMarshall,Wingsrule,Silveryfire, pointfivezero,IKE1964,AL410, Tdec1000, AnkurJ,guitarwes,Type2,Bp777,jfoot113,JWP,mattniss,dantheman984,jclovescoins,Collectorcoins,Weather11am,Namvet69,kansasman,Bruce7789,ADG,Larrob37
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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2023 10:55AM

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @Watchtower said:
    I would be happy with a 66. Anything better would be a bonus. The dealer was fair in the pricing at just under $400 including tax and delivery. I'm stoked.

    ummmm..... who wants to be the one to tell him?

    Perhaps the person whose post appears just above yours, has initiated the process ?😉 Though that post shows as being a minute after yours.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @Watchtower said:
    I would be happy with a 66. Anything better would be a bonus. The dealer was fair in the pricing at just under $400 including tax and delivery. I'm stoked.

    ummmm..... who wants to be the one to tell him?

    Perhaps the person whose post appears just above yours has initiated the process ?😉 Though that post shows as being a minute after yours.

    whoops, we must have been typing at the same time.... :#

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks like a nice coin and definitely appears to have FB. As has been mentioned, there is essentially no way this will cross to PCGS as an MS68FB. However, if you simply send it in to cross at any grade then I would expect it to go MS66FB. I like it.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    I'm not sure what's going on?
    I did I overpay?
    If I did oh well it just par for the course.

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,769 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    I would be happy with a 66. Anything better would be a bonus. The dealer was fair in the pricing at just under $400 including tax and delivery. I'm stoked.

    It is good that you are happy with the purchase of a very attractive coin. But I would caution you on the overexuberance of taking such a reduction in grade to have the PCGS plastic. Have you consulted coinfacts to see the PCGS guide prices and recent auction results for this coin in the grades of MS66FB to MS67FB? If you decide to attempt a crossover I would suggest a minimum of MS67+ on your submission, at MS66FB you could be taking quite a haircut.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    calgolddivercalgolddiver Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Top 25 Type Set 1792 to present

    Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set

    successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2023 11:27AM

    Edit, incorrect info from me

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    FrazFraz Posts: 1,863 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    I'm not sure what's going on?
    I did I overpay?
    If I did oh well it just par for the course.

    You’re in company, brother.

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,056 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    I'm not sure what's going on?
    I did I overpay?
    If I did oh well it just par for the course.

    Obviously, I have no idea what your thought process was when you bought the coin.
    But since you planned to cross it, it seems that you would have considered the possible and likely grades at which it might cross, including the implications of each of those outcomes. And that you would have researched values at different PCGS grades.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2023 11:25AM

    Edit for posterity, incorrect info from me

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,769 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2023 11:19AM

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @coinbuf said:

    @Watchtower said:
    I would be happy with a 66. Anything better would be a bonus. The dealer was fair in the pricing at just under $400 including tax and delivery. I'm stoked.

    It is good that you are happy with the purchase of a very attractive coin. But I would caution you on the overexuberance of taking such a reduction in grade to have the PCGS plastic. Have you consulted coinfacts to see the PCGS guide prices and recent auction results for this coin in the grades of MS66FB to MS67FB? If you decide to attempt a crossover I would suggest a minimum of MS67+ on your submission, at MS66FB you could be taking quite a haircut.

    That was the table I was looking at when I first commented until I realized they weren't FB records, but if you hit the "FB" tab it looks much better. I don't collect this series so I don't know if his is certainly a FB but I think OP would be ok with 66+ or more if it is

    Actually Dan the portion of the table I posted is for the FB coins, here is the same portion for non FB coins.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    Sometimes I get so discouraged and frustrated. Seems like I can't win. I knew the SEGS holder was meaningless. I paid because I liked the coin and seeing that I am not a competent grader yet I paid because well you know. I still like the coin but I was not up for a haircut. Good thing I'm not a coin flipper, huh?

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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2023 11:20AM

    Ebay sales are lower than the PCGS guide sales above, with the coin trading for around $50 in 66FB. I see $150 for a 67FB, and $220 for a 67+FB. It jumps to $940 in 68FB.

    I'd keep it and enjoy it as it is and avoid adding more cost trying to cross it. A change in plastic won't matter much for this coin.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    KAJ1KAJ1 Posts: 768 ✭✭✭

    Download the PCGS CoinFacts app on your phone, if you have one. A wealth of information. Do some checking on the type of coin you are looking at. You paid PCGS Ms 68 price.
    If you had this information, you perhaps could have talked him down to 67 money.

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinbuf said:

    Actually Dan the portion of the table I posted is for the FB coins, here is the same portion for non FB coins.

    You're right, My mistake, was on the page for the Philly issues. Edited my previous comment

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    bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,778 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2023 11:30AM

    @Watchtower said:
    Sometimes I get so discouraged and frustrated. Seems like I can't win. I knew the SEGS holder was meaningless. I paid because I liked the coin and seeing that I am not a competent grader yet I paid because well you know. I still like the coin but I was not up for a haircut. Good thing I'm not a coin flipper, huh?

    Don't beat yourself up. You bought a coin you liked. I'm sure some of us have paid more for something we wanted. Now if it was bought to flip, then yes, more research would have been needed. If bought to collect, then it's yours to admire and enjoy.

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,769 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    Sometimes I get so discouraged and frustrated. Seems like I can't win. I knew the SEGS holder was meaningless. I paid because I liked the coin and seeing that I am not a competent grader yet I paid because well you know. I still like the coin but I was not up for a haircut. Good thing I'm not a coin flipper, huh?

    Just to be clear I'm not trying to be negative on your coin or buy. I think its a very nice coin, also I like the SEGS holder and find that many of the coins in SEGS holders are very well graded. Also, the seller is a very good dealer that I have bought coins from myself. It's just that the crossover game, especially at the very tip of the grading scale is difficult and for this coin as @FlyingAl noted it would not gain much if any value from crossing it into PCGS plastic unless it crossed at grade. Now if you wanted it for a registry set then that would be a different matter.

    I only posted the table in case you were unaware of the difference in value at the lower grades for this coin.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,056 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @KAJ1 said:
    Download the PCGS CoinFacts app on your phone, if you have one. A wealth of information. Do some checking on the type of coin you are looking at. You paid PCGS Ms 68 price.
    If you had this information, you perhaps could have talked him down to 67 money.

    The coin is FB and he paid much less than a PCGS 68FB price. At the same time, he also paid much more than a PCGS 67FB price.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,338 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the toning and would consider it positive myself. But I tend to disagree with what the market considers nice toning.
    It's really impossible for us to say whether this will grade 65, 66, or 67 from the images. For instance what is going on with the neck? Scratches? On the holder?
    Good luck getting it out of that SEGS holder, they are tough as nails. Wear safety glasses.

    Collector, occasional seller

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    pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,151 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    Sometimes I get so discouraged and frustrated. Seems like I can't win. I knew the SEGS holder was meaningless. I paid because I liked the coin and seeing that I am not a competent grader yet I paid because well you know. I still like the coin but I was not up for a haircut. Good thing I'm not a coin flipper, huh?

    Don't be discouraged. You found a coin you like. I think the color doesn't really come through well in the photograph. I've paid a premium for nice color and in bidding on coins I've seen some very high premiums bid above where I would go. To each his own. You're collecting to enjoy the coin. Of course we should pay attention to price guides and auction results but sometimes you find a coin you've been searching for and you go above what you thought you'd pay. But the search is over and you have a coin you can enjoy.

    On the flip side the folks mentioning the chances of this crossing to a PCGS 68 are slim to none. If that was your expectation you'll be disappointed. If you had some idea it wouldn't cross (and I hope the dealer never lead you to believe it would) you can live with it.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coin and it might look better in hand....can't wait to hear. 68 is pushing it but it should cross no problem. I'm super happy you are so pleased, makes collecting so much fun. I like smiles on my face when I get new coins. Many of them still put smiles on my face many years later.
    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    I cannot seem to gain any ground. I blame myself. I am not upset with anyone. Especially not the seller. It's me dammit. It's me.
    I need to be a little more cynical I suppose.

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    SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's called tuition and you got off cheap compared to a bunch of us.

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    dhikewhitneydhikewhitney Posts: 364 ✭✭✭

    Watchtower,
    Of course you can “win.” Cancel the sale or return the coin (offer a modest restocking fee and pay for insured shipping).
    Another way to “win” is to sell your least favorite purchases (BST, Ebay, GC, LCD) and learn what they are worth to others vs. your purchase prices.

    We “win” by learning from mistakes and not repeating them. No one is taking their coins with them when they leave this world. It’s a good historical hobby and all spending (except for dealers) is discretionary.

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    P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    I cannot seem to gain any ground. I blame myself. I am not upset with anyone. Especially not the seller. It's me dammit. It's me.
    I need to be a little more cynical I suppose.

    You may be well-served to simply slow down a bit. You have a humble and inquisitive attitude, which are phenomenal assets as you get acquainted with the hobby, but coin collecting isn’t a race (and the coins will all outlive you anyway).

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    Sometimes I get so discouraged and frustrated. Seems like I can't win. I knew the SEGS holder was meaningless. I paid because I liked the coin and seeing that I am not a competent grader yet I paid because well you know. I still like the coin but I was not up for a haircut. Good thing I'm not a coin flipper, huh?

    You are okay with this coin. The price guides are just that...they are guides. Buying a coin in that lofty a grade in a SEGS holder is something that has warning written all over it, but at the same time the coin appears to be a genuinely nice example of a gem Merc with FB. While the guides might have $82 to $325 listed for a PCGS example in MS66FB through MS67+FB that does not mean that there can't be a premium attached for eye appeal. Truly, coins graded that highly should have loads of eye appeal, but I suspect your coin would have more oomph added to its price because the toning is desirable to many folks.

    The downside to the coin is the cost for crossing over to PCGS, which is not trivial when compared to the value of the coin, and the fact that you paid a stiff premium that might be difficult or impossible to reproduce upon resale. Regardless, in my opinion you are moving in the right direction by working with an established, well respected dealer and buying a coin that appears problem free and with good eye appeal.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like it and feel the toning is a positive. I especially admire the reverse.

    Why do you want it in PCGS plastic? or do you really want a True View?

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    telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,751 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    Sometimes I get so discouraged and frustrated. Seems like I can't win. I knew the SEGS holder was meaningless. I paid because I liked the coin and seeing that I am not a competent grader yet I paid because well you know. I still like the coin but I was not up for a haircut. Good thing I'm not a coin flipper, huh?

    Dude- you're one of the good guys. You bought something you liked. It's human nature to get excited about it. It's an attractive coin no matter what it grades, and the only thing that matters is that you like it. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE on these boards has paid more than they should or could have for something. I've made mistakes with zeroes on the end. This coin also might grade higher than we expect, and with that sexy toning could bring a premium to guide values. Don't sweat it.


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
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    spyglassdesignspyglassdesign Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    Sometimes I get so discouraged and frustrated. Seems like I can't win. I knew the SEGS holder was meaningless. I paid because I liked the coin and seeing that I am not a competent grader yet I paid because well you know. I still like the coin but I was not up for a haircut. Good thing I'm not a coin flipper, huh?

    That's just fine. You overpaid and will learn something from it. But in the end, you like the coin and that's what matters the most, imo.

    It's the cost of tuition. Don't be discouraged... but use this to learn how to be more careful in the future or you will take more haircuts. I took plenty before I started being more cautious and learned more about grading. It's just part of the gig... with a few guard rails you can save yourself some headaches in the future.

    Just a friendly word of advice from experience: Anything other than PCGS, NGC, or ANACS (and maybe ICG on certain coins), expect it to cross at least 2 grades less. If you can pay that amount, then you are probably somewhat safe. A lot of coins in other holders will come back with a problem as well, such as cleaning or other. To be clear I'm not speaking of your coin at all, just in general to watch out for.

    With that said, very nice coin! Glad you like it regardless!

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    BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    I cannot seem to gain any ground. I blame myself. I am not upset with anyone. Especially not the seller. It's me dammit. It's me.
    I need to be a little more cynical I suppose.

    It's not about being more cynical.

    It's about research and study before pulling the trigger.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
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    What burns my but is that I could have bought two or three coins. Sure I like this coin a ton. Knowing now that I overpaid leaves me feeling like had I been more patient, although I figured I was paying up for the toning, I could have bought at least one more coin. Maybe one for my WLH set. I'll get over it and I will enjoy the coin. I'm not going to try to pawn it off one someone else. I'll just keep it and enjoy it with my other overpaid coins. Maybe someday the market will catch up. I dunno. We live and learn. I wish I were wealthy so these hits didn't hurt so bad. This is like 2 days pay for me. That's what really hurts.

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    Eldorado9Eldorado9 Posts: 2,112 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd like to make a recommendation to you @Watchtower In the future, it will be safer to only buy PCGS/CAC approved coins, at or near PCGS and CAC published prices. Buy coins that have great eye appeal....and get second opinions. The Trueview photos are nice to have as well, and you can show those off to this group. At the least, this will keep you somewhat safe until your grading, and pricing skills improve. Buying raw, and buying coins in holders other than those generally accepted in the marketplace is a big gamble. This strategy might seem more expensive initially, but your chances of ending up with great coins will increase dramatically.

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    ajaanajaan Posts: 17,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you are regretting the purchase, just return the coin.


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
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    GaCoinGuyGaCoinGuy Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    Sometimes I get so discouraged and frustrated. Seems like I can't win. I knew the SEGS holder was meaningless. I paid because I liked the coin and seeing that I am not a competent grader yet I paid because well you know. I still like the coin but I was not up for a haircut. Good thing I'm not a coin flipper, huh?

    Personally, I think it is a nice coin and love the reverse (especially the sharp bands). In my experience, SEGS can be very up or down in their grading and, as someone mentioned, a real bear to break open.

    If the purchase did not put you in a bind, I would keep it as is and enjoy it since you mentioned that you liked it. An old adage I have heard around here since I joined 20+ years ago is to "Buy the coin, not the holder". Like others here, I have done the exact same thing and just chalk it up to a learning experience. I have been in coins for 20+ years and still don't feel that I can accurately grade some series. There are some super knowledgeable folks here, several of whom have chimed in on this thread, so keep reading and looking.

    imageimage

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    It's a nice coin from a great dealer who I have every intention of buying from again. I'm going to start using the PM to ask questions about purchases before I spend another dollar.
    With that said what does SEGS stand for?
    Someone Eventually Gets Stung?
    I thought of a couple of other things I could say about this in jest but the fact remains that it falls back on me. Buy the coin not the holder.
    LOL I try to find the humor in everything. What else can you do right?

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    SEGS=Sovereign Entities Grading Service

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2023 2:01PM

    Everyone takes haircuts on coins eventually. The more you learn the better you'll get at avoiding them. Take a look at CoinFacts and start to get a feel for grading. This will also allow you to get an idea of what a good coin looks like, and what a good coin should be.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,778 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just a thought to ponder also. You said this cost you 2 days pay and you could have bought some other coins if not this one possibly knowing its value. If you are working on a specific series, learn that series and the market pricing for them. Jumping on a coin out of your realm can almost always cause you heartache. I don't collect mercs myself, and yours looks very nice. I'm on a strict budget for coins. If it's over $100, I have to research before I buy. I'm not the best grader of coins but I know enough to look at one to get an idea of what it's close too. When looking at classic curculated coins, I do know that MS68 is a far reach and has to be a very clean coin in order for a tpg to label that. PCGS Photograde is a good app for that. If I'm looking at something I'm not familiar with, doesn't hurt to check grades and values before jumping. Jmo Btw, it's still a very nice merc!

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,989 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    It's a nice coin from a great dealer who I have every intention of buying from again. I'm going to start using the PM to ask questions about purchases before I spend another dollar.
    With that said what does SEGS stand for?
    Someone Eventually Gets Stung?
    I thought of a couple of other things I could say about this in jest but the fact remains that it falls back on me. Buy the coin not the holder.
    LOL I try to find the humor in everything. What else can you do right?

    Personally, I'm not sure I'd trust that dealer. I mean if it were to come back 67 FB with color, not a huge deal. But that's a King's ransom for a 66 FB with color.

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m addition to a lot of great advice that has been said in this thread, id like to add one more thing. I know we have recommended to you before that it might be wise to ask us here, before you buy the coin. I can understand if there are reasons that you don’t want to publicly announce what you intend to buy, but you can always private message someone here and ask if they can help you determine value or price.

    I communicate regularly with quite a few other collectors and sometimes we check with each other about a coin or a price before we pull the trigger. It’s a practice I apply in my personal life, as well. If I ever question my decision making, I’ll talk to a few trusted individuals and get their feedback. If they co-sign my logic, I’ll proceed.

    I’m no expert by any means, and there are people here whose knowledge far exceeds mine, but I think that I’m fairly adept at determining a coins ballpark value. If you were ever to pm me and say “Hey, I’m thinking of pulling the trigger on this coin, it’s being offered at x amount, thoughts?”, I would be more than happy to assist 🙂

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