1998 Japanese Rookie Card of Royce Gracie

wrestlingcardking

Super excited to self sub this rookie card that was released 11 years prior to his UFC round 1 card in 2009.

Loyalty32

Nice! Great job on the cut! Congrats on the 10!

Ridethelightning

whoa. Nice.. Hard core 2009 UFC set collector here and thought all my Royce's were rookies !

....but wait.. that one is wrestling.... my 2009's are UFC. What are the thoughts on this ? Is Michael Jordan's 1994 Upper Deck baseball card a rookie ? of does a Jordan rookie default back to first sports card... hmmmm.

Thinkin' both your glorious wrestling card 11 years earlier than the 2009 UFC should both be considered rookies. What do ya'll think on that topic

wrestlingcardking

Bad title in reality. This is a book from combat sports so it is more of a catch all book than just a pro wrestling book. I get your point though. I would seem to think an early Royce Gracie's are winners.

@Ridethelightning said:
whoa. Nice.. Hard core 2009 UFC set collector here and thought all my Royce's were rookies !

....but wait.. that one is wrestling.... my 2009's are UFC. What are the thoughts on this ? Is Michael Jordan's 1994 Upper Deck baseball card a rookie ? of does a Jordan rookie default back to first sports card... hmmmm.

Thinkin' both your glorious wrestling card 11 years earlier than the 2009 UFC should both be considered rookies. What do ya'll think on that topic

Crashingwaves

Love it! Great to see it graded... and killer grade.

Considering the UFC started in 1993 and the 1st lic release was 2009.... going to see more of these awesome early MMA cards. Now lets get those earlier VT cards authenticated.

brad31

I would think the most interesting test of this is Danny Ainge.

In baseball he has a 1981 Fleer,1981 Topps Traded and 1981 Donruss.

He has a minor league baseball card in 1980 on the Syracuse Chiefs (some say first card some say pre-rookie) made by TCMA.

His basketball rookies are 1983-1984 Star and 1986 Fleer.

All are considered rookies though I think the Star vs. Fleer was only because PSA didn’t grade the Star until recently and the not pack issued is code for I like PSA and this is the one they grade.

None of them seem to be THE ROOKIE card.

I think you would find people who argue the ‘ 80 TCMA - earliest card, 81 Baseball first cards form the major sports leagues, the Star as first basketball, and the Fleer as first pack issued basketball.

I would say the ‘81 baseball.

Those who really care will get them all. Those who only want one will pick based on any criteria they choose.

Some with “criteria” aren’t even consistent. The same person will argue Jordan’s rookie is ‘86 Fleer because Star wasn’t pack issued but those same people will say ‘82 Ripken Traded is the best Ripken rookie (only issued in set form).

Collect the one that you are most excited to hold in your hand!!! I think that is the true criteria we all have - and for many that turns out to be the most expensive one leading to a consensus rookie card.

Not that anyone cares my opinion - but ask me on Ainge I would say ‘81 Fleer and Donruss. I am not into minor league cards and never collected them so they don’t interest me. The Topps Traded was issued after base sets - so base sets were first. 1981 is before 1983 so the others aren’t rookies. But the cards I chose are boring and over-produced so nobody wants to call that the rookie.

Fun thing to think about.

daltex

@brad31 said:
I would think the most interesting test of this is Danny Ainge.

In baseball he has a 1981 Fleer,1981 Topps Traded and 1981 Donruss.

He has a minor league baseball card in 1980 on the Syracuse Chiefs (some say first card some say pre-rookie) made by TCMA.

His basketball rookies are 1983-1984 Star and 1986 Fleer.

All are considered rookies though I think the Star vs. Fleer was only because PSA didn’t grade the Star until recently and the not pack issued is code for I like PSA and this is the one they grade.

None of them seem to be THE ROOKIE card.

I think you would find people who argue the ‘ 80 TCMA - earliest card, 81 Baseball first cards form the major sports leagues, the Star as first basketball, and the Fleer as first pack issued basketball.

I would say the ‘81 baseball.

Those who really care will get them all. Those who only want one will pick based on any criteria they choose.

FWIW, I picked up one of these lately [stock photo]

wrestlingcardking

This is an MMA card that was in a book with pro wrestling, K1 and other combat sports. This is not Dwayne Johnson as a college football player for the University of Miami. I think too much is being made of the label of PSA. This is not a wrestling card of Royce Gracie.

@brad31 said:
I would think the most interesting test of this is Danny Ainge.

In baseball he has a 1981 Fleer,1981 Topps Traded and 1981 Donruss.

He has a minor league baseball card in 1980 on the Syracuse Chiefs (some say first card some say pre-rookie) made by TCMA.

His basketball rookies are 1983-1984 Star and 1986 Fleer.

All are considered rookies though I think the Star vs. Fleer was only because PSA didn’t grade the Star until recently and the not pack issued is code for I like PSA and this is the one they grade.

None of them seem to be THE ROOKIE card.

I think you would find people who argue the ‘ 80 TCMA - earliest card, 81 Baseball first cards form the major sports leagues, the Star as first basketball, and the Fleer as first pack issued basketball.

I would say the ‘81 baseball.

Those who really care will get them all. Those who only want one will pick based on any criteria they choose.

Some with “criteria” aren’t even consistent. The same person will argue Jordan’s rookie is ‘86 Fleer because Star wasn’t pack issued but those same people will say ‘82 Ripken Traded is the best Ripken rookie (only issued in set form).

Collect the one that you are most excited to hold in your hand!!! I think that is the true criteria we all have - and for many that turns out to be the most expensive one leading to a consensus rookie card.

Not that anyone cares my opinion - but ask me on Ainge I would say ‘81 Fleer and Donruss. I am not into minor league cards and never collected them so they don’t interest me. The Topps Traded was issued after base sets - so base sets were first. 1981 is before 1983 so the others aren’t rookies. But the cards I chose are boring and over-produced so nobody wants to call that the rookie.

Fun thing to think about.

Crashingwaves

The Japanese have created a lot of these quasi rookies with their magazine / book / bbm, cards etc. The diehards respect them while the casual are confused. I get the significance of lic releases with pack pulled cards... but if the other, non lic cards are several years earlier, then the significance grows... especially with mma, as the sport was in its infancy in the 90s.

Regardless, they are key pieces of card/athlete history and are deserve their place in the discussion

MinorLeaguer

As it turns out, the 1978 TCMA Syracuse Danny Ainge is his firs card. Almost always poorly centered too.

wrestlingcardking

I compare this 1998 Royce Gracie to the other handcut card from Japan that was released in 1999 with that being the Manny Pacquiao rookie that went for big money during the boom (around 15k) but has recently sold in PSA 10 for around 4k. My thoughts anyway. We will see if that is indeed true.

@Crashingwaves said:
The Japanese have created a lot of these quasi rookies with their magazine / book / bbm, cards etc. The diehards respect them while the casual are confused. I get the significance of lic releases with pack pulled cards... but if the other, non lic cards are several years earlier, then the significance grows... especially with mma, as the sport was in its infancy in the 90s.

Regardless, they are key pieces of card/athlete history and are deserve their place in the discussion

Tabe

Yeah, this is just weird labeling since Royce never did pro wrestling.

wrestlingcardking

Agreed. Wrestling wasn't spelled fully either.