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Gem FB '68-D dimes.

cladkingcladking Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 12, 2023 10:32AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I've been going through quite a few mint set coins and am not finding any FB '68-D dimes.

This suggests all '68-D FB coins come from BU rolls and singles saved back in 1968. And this is the rub. As I often say there were no clad rolls saved back at the time of issue. Of course I'm just rounding off very small numbers to "0" because most people imagine you can make a few phone calls and acquire as many rolls and bags as you desire. Most of the coins of the era had from 100,000 to 250,000 or so saved and many of these have since been released because the owner grew tired of having money locked up in them or the coins tarnished. '68-D was saved much more than most clad because it marked the return of mint marks and because the quality had improved substantially. Not only were there higher grades but more of them.

Remember though that in those days people didn't pay much attention to quality even in morgan dollars so clad dimes were catch as catch can; poor specimens were nearly as likely to be saved as nice ones. The typical '68-D dime roll was quite nondescript. Quality eluded almost every coin in a roll. There were probably only a couple thousand Gems actually saved in BU rolls and, apparently (because I never found one), a significant percentage of these are FB accounting for the low price for FB.

As scarce as Gems are in rolls, choice and superb Gems are virtually impossible. Sure there will be specimens that aren't especially well struck or were struck with worn dies that are nearly mark free. No doubt these account for the vast majority of FB dimes in high grade.

This suggests two opportunities. One is high grade specimens from mint sets but better still is FB issues with the best possible strikes from the best possible dies. These latter coins will stand out like hens' teeth in a few years.

Other than 1976 issues no clad will prove to be common in high grade unless it appears in mint sets. All moderns made for mint sets appear as Gems in mint sets from about .3% to 8% of the time (most about 2%). Many modern Gems probably don't exist in BU rolls.

Of course this is much less true where issues are graded principally according to marking.

Tempus fugit.

Comments

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    privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How about a 1974 p with FB?

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

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    CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have found a few FB 68s from mint sets but I yet to give them a second thought mainly because of the PG.

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    WCCWCC Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PCGS has graded 474 FB in MS-66 or higher.

    NGC has graded 298 FT in MS-66 or higher.

    I'd say that's gem to most collectors, if not to you. Somebody is finding these, if not you.

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    cladkingcladking Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WCC said:
    PCGS has graded 474 FB in MS-66 or higher.

    NGC has graded 298 FT in MS-66 or higher.

    I'd say that's gem to most collectors, if not to you. Somebody is finding these, if not you.

    As I said; roll coins are rarely fully stuck by new dies. This suggests that there are very few or no FB coins in any grade that are fully struck by new dies. So perhaps the best strikes among these are grossly undervalued.

    The only other possibility I can imagine is that I'm grading the bands on mint set coins too harshly. I saw no bands that were nearly as good as a '1990-D coin that came back without the designation, though. There is very little chance that I'm wrong about the nature or number of BU rolls. I've simply looked at too many coins to miss so many well made coins. It is well made coins I've been seeking all these years more than clean coins. Fortunately there is a little correlation between well made and clean for most dates or I'd be left holding the bag.

    Tempus fugit.
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinscratch said:
    I have found a few FB 68s from mint sets but I yet to give them a second thought mainly because of the PG.

    Were any of these Denver issues? Does the split in the bands extend all the way to the fields on both sides? I saw a very few ~.2% that appeared FB but the split ends well inside of the fields.

    Tempus fugit.
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @privatecoin said:
    How about a 1974 p with FB?

    Still looking. Not much to report. I did find one very very close but still just starting with these. As you no doubt know a lot of these have no separation.

    I still have a lot of Gems to check for this date so am hopeful.

    Tempus fugit.
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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's a 68D I've had hanging around for about 30 years.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    cladkingcladking Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    Here's a 68D I've had hanging around for about 30 years.

    Cool and very interesting. The bands look fully struck and it's obviously not a mint set coin. Such coins are graded mostly on the basis of marking so can earn high grades. The grading system evolved for coins that were produced in a narrow range of qualities back when standards were far higher. Moderns were hastily and shabbily made with no standards other than they had to be able to operate vending machines consistently.

    I like FB and the other designations but I also like well made coins from serviceable dies. With some coins like the '68-D dimes these may not intersect. Many of the early clads are almost impossible to locate as true Gems anywhere but mint sets because so very few were saved and production standards were almost nonexistent.

    Tempus fugit.
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    CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:

    I have rolls of these. They are however all mint set coins. I can't say I have ever seen an OBW roll. BTW - that is a 68FB an 11/0 coin, from a mint set, so yeah it is not common.

    That one's a beauty, I got nothing like that, all of mine are pretty flat looking.

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    CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cladking said:

    @Coinscratch said:
    I have found a few FB 68s from mint sets but I yet to give them a second thought mainly because of the PG.

    Were any of these Denver issues? Does the split in the bands extend all the way to the fields on both sides? I saw a very few ~.2% that appeared FB but the split ends well inside of the fields.

    I'm not sure and will need to run through them today, I'm prepping an order anyway. But I'm kinda speechless after seeing Clackamasses.

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinscratch Roosies in 67 and higher grades look really nice. FB is really tough on many Roosies silver and clad alike.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    @Coinscratch Roosies in 67 and higher grades look really nice. FB is really tough on many Roosies silver and clad alike.

    I took a stab at a few recently, just a test run on colors not grades to see how they would look. I knew the 82 would hit fb but the grade fell short at 66.



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    FrazFraz Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cladking said:
    I've been going through quite a few mint set coins and am not finding any FB '68-D dimes.

    I like the mini articles you create and the discussion. Thank you for the information that you have!

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinscratch said:

    @cladking said:

    @Coinscratch said:

    I'm not sure and will need to run through them today, I'm prepping an order anyway. But I'm kinda speechless after seeing Clackamasses.

    Well to not give you no hope when that coin was made it became a 2/0. Now it is an 11/0 Coin. The coin that Gumby posted will never make it, the dies were shot when that coin was struck, it seems like an FB but it is not because part of the torch is gone on both sides. When you see the fields not look flat and rather like crumpled foil, the dies are done.

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    CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @Coinscratch said:

    @cladking said:

    @Coinscratch said:

    I'm not sure and will need to run through them today, I'm prepping an order anyway. But I'm kinda speechless after seeing Clackamasses.

    Well to not give you no hope when that coin was made it became a 2/0. Now it is an 11/0 Coin. The coin that Gumby posted will never make it, the dies were shot when that coin was struck, it seems like an FB but it is not because part of the torch is gone on both sides. When you see the fields not look flat and rather like crumpled foil, the dies are done.

    I assumed that's what that meant. Here are a couple that I thought look pretty cool. So this crumpled foil look, is this another example of metal flow or is the face of the worn die look just like the struck coin?


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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinscratch said:

    @Clackamas1 said:

    I assumed that's what that meant. Here are a couple that I thought look pretty cool. So this crumpled foil look, is this another example of metal flow or is the face of the worn die look just like the struck coin?

    Yes, they used the bejesus out of dies in that era

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    CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2023 2:03PM

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @Coinscratch said:

    @Clackamas1 said:

    I assumed that's what that meant. Here are a couple that I thought look pretty cool. So this crumpled foil look, is this another example of metal flow or is the face of the worn die look just like the struck coin?

    Yes, they used the bejesus out of dies in that era

    And how do you know what era with reverses only shown :D 68 & 83
    Edit; reverse that.

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    cladkingcladking Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:

    I have rolls of these. They are however all mint set coins. I can't say I have ever seen an OBW roll. BTW - that is a 68FB an 11/0 coin, from a mint set, so yeah it is not common.

    Beautiful Coin!!! The coin is attractive, clean, and very well struck. If the dies were a little newer it would be almost perfect.

    This begs the question of what happened to all the FB's the dies mustta made earlier than this. Obviously it didn't make them or I'd be finding them in other mint sets. I've always suspected that the best strikes are caused by unusual factors such as overweight planchets or a press starting up. Perhaps other things must be present like warm planchets or a power surge. Maybe many factors have to come together to make the perfect coin. At every stage many things can go wrong as well so obviously all the star must be aligned.

    I used to see a few original rolls, but mostly from the bank. Until the mint and FED started rotating their coin stocks in 1972 it wasn't the least unusual to see old rolls at the banks. '68-D rolls were pretty bad. They weren't on the same level of awful as the '68-P but you'd be hardpressed to even find an MS-63 in most rolls. There were a few nicer ones once in a while but these were almost always struck by very worn dies.

    Mint set coins come very nice and often PL. 95% are MS-63 or better. Today, of course, most of the few survivors are tarnished and need to be cleaned.

    Tempus fugit.
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    @Coinscratch Roosies in 67 and higher grades look really nice. FB is really tough on many Roosies silver and clad alike.

    It's funny how the clads seem to come in only two types with FB, either very common or very scarce. There are very few that appear in only a few percent of mint set coins. I'm not sure where the FB's are coming from.

    I have found that even with dates that are very scarce in FB like the '90-D that you can just suddenly find one. There won't be anything even close to FB and then you have a winner! Registry set collectors are lucky to be collecting now when rare coins, coins that will always be rare, can be had for really low prices. By the same token though they have to contend with the possibility of overpaying for coins that aren't as rare as they seem.

    Tempus fugit.
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    CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cladking said:

    @gumby1234 said:
    @Coinscratch Roosies in 67 and higher grades look really nice. FB is really tough on many Roosies silver and clad alike.

    It's funny how the clads seem to come in only two types with FB, either very common or very scarce. There are very few that appear in only a few percent of mint set coins. I'm not sure where the FB's are coming from.

    I have found that even with dates that are very scarce in FB like the '90-D that you can just suddenly find one. There won't be anything even close to FB and then you have a winner! Registry set collectors are lucky to be collecting now when rare coins, coins that will always be rare, can be had for really low prices. By the same token though they have to contend with the possibility of overpaying for coins that aren't as rare as they seem.

    I've seen some fully struck (heavy) 1990s with a full bottom bar but with absolutely no divide. But it sounds like I need to keep looking.

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    cladkingcladking Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinscratch said:

    @cladking said:

    @gumby1234 said:
    @Coinscratch Roosies in 67 and higher grades look really nice. FB is really tough on many Roosies silver and clad alike.

    It's funny how the clads seem to come in only two types with FB, either very common or very scarce. There are very few that appear in only a few percent of mint set coins. I'm not sure where the FB's are coming from.

    I have found that even with dates that are very scarce in FB like the '90-D that you can just suddenly find one. There won't be anything even close to FB and then you have a winner! Registry set collectors are lucky to be collecting now when rare coins, coins that will always be rare, can be had for really low prices. By the same token though they have to contend with the possibility of overpaying for coins that aren't as rare as they seem.

    I've seen some fully struck (heavy) 1990s with a full bottom bar but with absolutely no divide. But it sounds like I need to keep looking.

    The divide on these is often very thin and shallow.

    I saw a curious coin today. It is an '85-P with very clear very well struck FB. This isn't too scarce but what was unusual is that there is a die chip inside the bands on the left side giving it two clean splits on one side. The toughest thing causing lack of FB is poor strikes, of course, but perhaps many dies never even had them because the area is fragile. The right side doesn't fill in because the metal flows to Roosevelt's head on the obverse and the left side usually doesn't either because of the design. It is strange to me that FB are so scarce on most dates yet virtually common on a few. Before I started actually looking and counting I'd have guessed they ranged from about 1 : 200 to 1 : 10 dependent on date. This hardly true and many dates are far scarcer in FB than the pops imply and this might be more true in higher grades.

    Tempus fugit.
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    CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not to change the subject (tough time finding a good 68:) but here are a few PLs and possibly an FB on a few.
























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    emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Don't ever give up
    " as the frog's out reached arms are choking the pelican from the inside of the pelican's bill "

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    FrazFraz Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2023 6:23AM

    The frogs arms reached out
    Choking the pelican from
    Inside his bill

    Thanks for the pics.

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    CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just in: The pics above do no justice until you turn the lights off. They look really cool if you're sitting in the dark as I was when I shot them.
    Pelican bites down harder.

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