Home World & Ancient Coins Forum

NYINC and PCGS submission question for those who go to shows GRADES IN with photos

StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 17, 2023 1:03PM in World & Ancient Coins Forum

Somehow I have been on these message boards for (holy cow!!!) almost 20 years. And never officially joined for submitting coins. I have a couple coins that I'd like in PCGS holders (and one with a messed up slab for a re-holder).

  1. Can I 'join' at the show or just bite the bullet and do now so I'm a member upon arrival?
  2. Tier recommendation? I'm not a big time submitter but getting more into some stuff only they slab (slabs for my heirs ;) )
  3. Will they do the equivalent of returning documentation for a fee (ie JNDA certificate)?
  4. And for esoteric stuff they may or may not slab, do you think they might tell me then/there?
  5. Does providing buying documents for said esoteric item (a Japanese auction listing) help them?
  6. If I do a 'show submission' will it matter that I'm not there until Friday (but can hit their table first)? I'm actually okay if they don't do it AT the show though

I cannot believe that I've been on these boards this long AND I've never submitted directly, only through intermediaries like @airplanenut

Thanks for any input.


Comments

  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh, and to clarify, what type of stuff I'm referring to one is a manen with a JNDA cert bought in Tokyo by my husband (who gives REALLY GOOD GIFTS), plus an oddball 'fantasy' that is listed in the Kingin Zuroku (they have used that source as a reference before and 'fantasy' is a misnomer--just pre Meiji/central government issues). Plus I'd like to get my clay coins in holders for protection. PCGS has really stepped up into using something other than Krause for citations and resources and has now slabbed some pretty interesting material (including some of the so called fantasy pieces...a word I hate in case you can't tell). And photos so this is more interesting.

    The fantasy (volume 4, page six of the Zoruku):

    The gift from my husband who ventured into a Tokyo coin shop behind my back to surprise me:

    Some of my porcelain/clay coins:


  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,857 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can't really help since I submit through someone else when I submit (so you've submitted through someone else through me), but I appreciate this thread since I'm planning to make a very brief appearance at the show for the first time in 18 or 19 years, and I was also considering one PCGS reholder, but since it requires them to determine there's a complete date on an error that's currently holdered as being partial date, I'm guessing they can't get it done fast enough for the amount of time I'll be at the show.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PCGS will have a table at the show for accepting office submissions only. There is no onsite grading, hence you cannot do a show submission. Only office submissions are accepted, but the benefit is that you save the shipping cost of sending your coins TO PCGS. They pay for secure shipping from NY back to headquarters, where grading proceeds as though it was a normal mail submission.

    Generally, the person(s) manning the PCGS table are not very knowledgeable about attributions and grading. They are only experts in PCGS office procedure (how to accept submissions, how to fill out the forms, security procedures, etc.). So they will be unable to answer technical coin questions.

    PCGS does return documentation, but it is usually all folded up to fit in a slab box. I send photocopies of my documentation rather than originals. Yes, they do often help attribution.

    You can join PCGS collectors club at time of submission, or you can do it ahead of time online before you leave. Alternatively, you can submit through a dealer or another collector. I am a member and would have no problem submitting for you (and I think I can use a special one-time shipping address to get your coins returned direct to you).

    Did I cover it all? Hope to see you there!

  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow @pruebas ! Excellent information. I had checked the submission page and it mentioned show submission tiers. Office is fine and I've done that with NGC several times. I will probably take the coins and if I run into a few individuals I'll see what they think re: likelihood of eligibility. Great idea on the idea of copies of documents. I can print out the relevant auction information/certificate, and copy of the Zuroku. I will NOT bring my copy :smiley:

    @airplanenut I forgot you were an intermediary (hubs was happy to get that trade dollar in the slab it turns out). What day will you be there? I recall seeing you a few aisles away at a Whitman a LONG time ago--not sure you were even 18 at that point. Recognized you from the boards but didn't chase you down as that would have been weird.


  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,857 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Stork said:
    @airplanenut I forgot you were an intermediary (hubs was happy to get that trade dollar in the slab it turns out). What day will you be there? I recall seeing you a few aisles away at a Whitman a LONG time ago--not sure you were even 18 at that point. Recognized you from the boards but didn't chase you down as that would have been weird.

    Plan is to be there at the opening on Friday.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @airplanenut said:

    @Stork said:
    @airplanenut I forgot you were an intermediary (hubs was happy to get that trade dollar in the slab it turns out). What day will you be there? I recall seeing you a few aisles away at a Whitman a LONG time ago--not sure you were even 18 at that point. Recognized you from the boards but didn't chase you down as that would have been weird.

    Plan is to be there at the opening on Friday.

    I may see you there!


  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Stork said:
    Somehow I have been on these message boards for (holy cow!!!) almost 20 years. And never officially joined for submitting coins. I have a couple coins that I'd like in PCGS holders (and one with a messed up slab for a re-holder).

    1. Can I 'join' at the show or just bite the bullet and do now so I'm a member upon arrival?
    2. Tier recommendation? I'm not a big time submitter but getting more into some stuff only they slab (slabs for my heirs ;) )
    3. Will they do the equivalent of returning documentation for a fee (ie JNDA certificate)?
    4. And for esoteric stuff they may or may not slab, do you think they might tell me then/there?
    5. Does providing buying documents for said esoteric item (a Japanese auction listing) help them?
    6. If I do a 'show submission' will it matter that I'm not there until Friday (but can hit their table first)? I'm actually okay if they don't do it AT the show though

    I cannot believe that I've been on these boards this long AND I've never submitted directly, only through intermediaries like @airplanenut

    Thanks for any input.

    In principle, I always go with the cheapest eligible tier if time is not of the essence. Occasionally, I will put a single coin (or maybe two) in a higher tier with others in order to avoid the additional submission fee and shipping cost.

    Documentation can sometimes help. I'm not convinced it always even gets looked at or makes it to the person doing the attributions, but I have heard of examples where it helped.

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 10, 2023 4:37PM

    Just for giggles, an update, and a whine. I didn't end up submitting the Man'en koban but threw in an Akita silver.

    The submission was entered into the system 1/17. Took awhile to get into grading. And I have gone 3 (possibly 4) weekends with the coins in 'encapsulation'. Sigh. Official whine (and Universal Perversity Law being what it is it SHOULD mean as soon as I whine they will pop...except now I'm hoping for that and the Law will not go into effect. Rats). But seriously if encapsulation is taking as long as actual grading I'm HOPING that means they are
    1. gradeable, and
    2. getting slabbed, carefully.

    They have slabbed the clay ones and Akitas so really it's the fantasy Koban I'm stewing about. Well that and if the clay ones are types they recognize.

    Kind of interesting, I stumbled on this stub of an article. Kagin's was an interesting sale and I was able to get a couple pieces out of it. https://greysheet.com/news/story/pcgs-begins-certifying-japanese-fantasy-coins-with-kagin-s-auction-of-the-hesselgesser-collection-to-be-the-first-available-for-collectors://

    Ah well, if anyone is reading this, truly I'm just whining and suffering from lack of patience.


  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I understand!😬

    But I hope the wait in “encapsulation”“ means you will get the desired result wanted …

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bidask said:
    I understand!😬

    But I hope the wait in “encapsulation”“ means you will get the desired result wanted …

    I'm looking for 'genuine' for the koban :D And graded for the clay. Akita, not details. It's a pretty generic one. 4m6b.


  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know nothing …

    What is 4m6b …?🤓

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Stork said:
    Just for giggles, an update, and a whine. I didn't end up submitting the Man'en koban but threw in an Akita silver.

    The submission was entered into the system 1/17. Took awhile to get into grading. And I have gone 3 (possibly 4) weekends with the coins in 'encapsulation'. Sigh. Official whine (and Universal Perversity Law being what it is it SHOULD mean as soon as I whine they will pop...except now I'm hoping for that and the Law will not go into effect. Rats). But seriously if encapsulation is taking as long as actual grading I'm HOPING that means they are
    1. gradeable, and
    2. getting slabbed, carefully.

    They have slabbed the clay ones and Akitas so really it's the fantasy Koban I'm stewing about. Well that and if the clay ones are types they recognize.

    Kind of interesting, I stumbled on this stub of an article. Kagin's was an interesting sale and I was able to get a couple pieces out of it. https://greysheet.com/news/story/pcgs-begins-certifying-japanese-fantasy-coins-with-kagin-s-auction-of-the-hesselgesser-collection-to-be-the-first-available-for-collectors://

    Ah well, if anyone is reading this, truly I'm just whining and suffering from lack of patience.

    I submitted my orders right ahead of you. Entered the system on 18 Jan. All are back in my hands except my Economy submission, which has also been in Encapsulation for a few weeks.

  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bidask said:
    I know nothing …

    What is 4m6b …?🤓

    4momme, 6 bu

    @pruebas said:

    @Stork said:
    Just for giggles, an update, and a whine. I didn't end up submitting the Man'en koban but threw in an Akita silver.

    The submission was entered into the system 1/17. Took awhile to get into grading. And I have gone 3 (possibly 4) weekends with the coins in 'encapsulation'. Sigh. Official whine (and Universal Perversity Law being what it is it SHOULD mean as soon as I whine they will pop...except now I'm hoping for that and the Law will not go into effect. Rats). But seriously if encapsulation is taking as long as actual grading I'm HOPING that means they are
    1. gradeable, and
    2. getting slabbed, carefully.

    They have slabbed the clay ones and Akitas so really it's the fantasy Koban I'm stewing about. Well that and if the clay ones are types they recognize.

    Kind of interesting, I stumbled on this stub of an article. Kagin's was an interesting sale and I was able to get a couple pieces out of it. https://greysheet.com/news/story/pcgs-begins-certifying-japanese-fantasy-coins-with-kagin-s-auction-of-the-hesselgesser-collection-to-be-the-first-available-for-collectors://

    Ah well, if anyone is reading this, truly I'm just whining and suffering from lack of patience.

    I submitted my orders right ahead of you. Entered the system on 18 Jan. All are back in my hands except my Economy submission, which has also been in Encapsulation for a few weeks.

    And mine was regular. The reslab is back. But it's oddball stuff so I expected it would be slow.


  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hopefully the long encapsulation prevents this :#

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like that lead trial!

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    FWIW, on my regular order, PCGS screwed up attributions on 5 of 29 coins (despite the correct info being right there on the submission form).

    4 of them are going back for a second trip!

    The fun never ends!

  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh yay, something else to worry about! These should be otherwise straightforward. I hope.


  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just for giggles. As of today, are now in Quality Check!!! I have a few more things I'd like to send but I'm not sure I can take it :D. Thank goodness I went Regular and not a slower tier. I'm a little surprised at the timing of the update. I checked before bed last night and now this morning it's still before 8am. I hope QC goes faster, Encapsulation was about 2 months--that said I did give them weirdo items.


  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2023 1:10PM

    Grades hit yesterday and Trueviews today. Happy days indeed, all straight graded and nothing disappointing. The silver Akita was a raw buy out of Noonans and was a super reasonable price. I'd skipped sending the Man'en koban, wasn't sure it would straight grade even though it's lovely...has a few scratches that may be 'scratched' level. I don't know. The clay coins were all good.


    MS-61 (Akita 4m6b)


    AU-58 (Hoei era)


    AU-55

    One of the clay sets--I'd swapped this set in vs. the one posted above. I have no idea why. But I'm pleased enough I'll send the rest of the clay ones in so they are properly described and labeled and not stuck in a vulnerable flip. These are 65-66 though frankly I have no idea what criteria this is based on :smiley:




  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful!

    I think they use the same grading scale for the clay coins as they do for blank planchets. :D

  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These look great! Congrats.

    A little disappointing how long it took - I thought some of the throughput issues were addressed, but sounds like your time from submission to results was right at 4 months?

    My current "Box of 20"

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice congratulations 😄

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2023 4:46PM

    @Bob13 said:
    These look great! Congrats.

    A little disappointing how long it took - I thought some of the throughput issues were addressed, but sounds like your time from submission to results was right at 4 months?

    Yes, but to be fair these were oddball pieces. The clay coins are patterns and honestly I have no idea what reference they use for them.I don't have a good English language one. Plus they are relatively thicker than a correspondingly sized metal coin.

    The 'fantasy' is a pre-Meiji local lord/authority issue (I despise the word fantasy in this context, it's a translation thing) and the reference is a very old catalog. In Japanese. I can locate the volume and page. Plus the size/shape is completely non-standard. The bu was probably the easiest one and it dates 1710-1714. At least on that one I supplied the JNDA certificate that came with it.

    And as long as the logging in and grading took, the longest stretch was in the encapsulation phase. I am not upset by the length, though I was getting impatient and was dying to know if things were actually slabbing. I only gave them a part of my clay pieces so now I can send the rest in. I will probably get another 'fantasy'. And mostly will stick to coins with JNDA certificates. It won't be the cheapest way but oh well.

    Oh, and if someone is submitting from Japan apparently, according to a 'reliable source', it can take A YEAR to get through. It's nuts, but I'm super happy they are delving into the pre-Meiji/pre-reform Meiji coins. Turns out I'm a type collector at heart and it's so fun to get them. I have a new English language reference to go along with the Hartill so it's been a treat going further into the past.

    https://ebay.com/itm/373886343460
    (also for sale on Clark Smith's website). It has a few typos I've found but is super cool. Pages of the JNDA I painfully had translated or used Google translate, and BOOM, I can read it.

    And this is the Kingin Zoruku in pdf form. Funny story. I bought the paper version from overseas and had to go round and round with customs because they were trying to figure out the 'commodity content' of the package. It had the above photo'd Akita and I was trying to explain there was maybe half an ounce of silver (guessing) and the other commodity was paper. They kept thinking it was 7 gold and silver coins. Nope, a paper book with gold and silver (kin and gin) in the title. That was excruciating. "The commodity is PAPER". :smiley: In any case, if it's in the Zoruku it's fair game apparently.
    https://archive.wul.waseda.ac.jp/kosho/bunko30/bunko30_f0028/

    And here is a description from a bookseller. https://abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=21145021691&searchurl=kn%3Dkingin%26sortby%3D1&cm_sp=snippet--srp1--title2://

    Mine was not quite that pricey, even including the shipping fees. And the Akita.


  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your Customs broker should easily find the HTS code for used books! The coins are a bit harder, but not much.

Sign In or Register to comment.