@logger7 said:
Unusual to have sharp collectors think it is better than it actually is. Your last set of images shows a lot more friction on the surfaces.
The question is, how much does friction affect the grade? Should it be an AU 58/58+ max grade if there is friction?
Bag marks VS rub. Has any metal actually been rubbed off due to circulation, ie rubbing coins together or being slid across counters, is the question, as opposed to being marked up from 'bag marks'.
It seems there is sometimes a fine line between the two sometimes. I've confused a soft strike with rub before. It's easy to do unless you have it in hand.
As for this coin I see a few soft details and bag marks, not necessarily rub. I'd defer to the graders judgment on this one.
Even the most current image does not show convincing evidence of the MS61 grade. I do not doubt the grade of 61, but the pictures are not good enough to draw that conclusion. And I do not seem to be able to blow the pics up anymore?
@logger7 said:
Unusual to have sharp collectors think it is better than it actually is. Your last set of images shows a lot more friction on the surfaces.
The question is, how much does friction affect the grade? Should it be an AU 58/58+ max grade if there is friction?
I'd call that abrasion on the surfaces, but not real wear due to circulation but rather stacking friction or bag wear. Think of it--a grading service gets a coin that is not rare, the most common of common dates, and wants to give the submitter's coin the benefit of the doubt. Someone probably spent more than they should have hoping for a higher grade.
@logger7 said:
Unusual to have sharp collectors think it is better than it actually is. Your last set of images shows a lot more friction on the surfaces.
The question is, how much does friction affect the grade? Should it be an AU 58/58+ max grade if there is friction?
I'd call that abrasion on the surfaces, but not real wear due to circulation but rather stacking friction or bag wear. Think of it--a grading service gets a coin that is not rare, the most common of common dates, and wants to give the submitter's coin the benefit of the doubt. Someone probably spent more than they should have hoping for a higher grade.
A 61 is an odd choice for most Morgans though. It would have to be really beat up, lack luster, be unappealing, or a combination of all. On a common date like this, a 58 (and especially a 58+) will sell for more in the market. So “bumping” from AU to low MS is actually hurting the submitter. The other possibility is that it has the eye appeal of a 63/64 but was downgraded for friction and hits, which would seem a bit harsh to go that far down given the premium toning (if we are market grading like the TPGs tend to do).
@OldIndianNutKase said:
Even the most current image does not show convincing evidence of the MS61 grade. I do not doubt the grade of 61, but the pictures are not good enough to draw that conclusion. And I do not seem to be able to blow the pics up anymore?
It would be interesting to get a grading card with the grades... Kind of like a report card with the 4 or 5 categories they look at (wear, luster, markings etc). Then we could see into why the coin may have been net graded as it was. Seems like that wouldn't even add much time or cost to do... But would definitely be interesting. Then we wouldn't need to guess why a coin graded the way it did since most of us aren't experts.
Comments
Bag marks VS rub. Has any metal actually been rubbed off due to circulation, ie rubbing coins together or being slid across counters, is the question, as opposed to being marked up from 'bag marks'.
It seems there is sometimes a fine line between the two sometimes. I've confused a soft strike with rub before. It's easy to do unless you have it in hand.
As for this coin I see a few soft details and bag marks, not necessarily rub. I'd defer to the graders judgment on this one.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Even the most current image does not show convincing evidence of the MS61 grade. I do not doubt the grade of 61, but the pictures are not good enough to draw that conclusion. And I do not seem to be able to blow the pics up anymore?
I'd call that abrasion on the surfaces, but not real wear due to circulation but rather stacking friction or bag wear. Think of it--a grading service gets a coin that is not rare, the most common of common dates, and wants to give the submitter's coin the benefit of the doubt. Someone probably spent more than they should have hoping for a higher grade.
A 61 is an odd choice for most Morgans though. It would have to be really beat up, lack luster, be unappealing, or a combination of all. On a common date like this, a 58 (and especially a 58+) will sell for more in the market. So “bumping” from AU to low MS is actually hurting the submitter. The other possibility is that it has the eye appeal of a 63/64 but was downgraded for friction and hits, which would seem a bit harsh to go that far down given the premium toning (if we are market grading like the TPGs tend to do).
It would be interesting to get a grading card with the grades... Kind of like a report card with the 4 or 5 categories they look at (wear, luster, markings etc). Then we could see into why the coin may have been net graded as it was. Seems like that wouldn't even add much time or cost to do... But would definitely be interesting. Then we wouldn't need to guess why a coin graded the way it did since most of us aren't experts.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Regardless of the grade, I think it's a cool looking 21 Morgan.
Wow! This is the second one in as many days that seems a bit undergraded.
...a little tongue-in-cheek here, but I'd keep it in the holder and drag it out when negotiating for raw Morgan Dollars...
lol...
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@spyglassdesign The old ANACS photo certs did something like what you are describing and you got a grade for the obv and one for the rev as well.
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