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Very low mintages for 2022 gold commems

OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

The Mint’s sales figures as of Jan. 1 have been released, and the approximately final mintages of the two 2022 $5.00 gold commems appear to be vanishingly small.

Sales totals for the Purple Heart gold show 7682 proof and 1690 uncirculated. Totals for the Negro Leagues Baseball gold are even lower, 5357 proof and only 1507 uncirculated. The proof totals include those in the 3-coin sets.

All of these coins continue to be readily available on the secondary market for well under $1000 each.

Are most collectors no longer interested in modern commemorative gold?

My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Someday, those low mintages might find a market. I thought the same thing about 10 years ago, and undoubtedly it is true.

    The question is whether or not I'll still be around by then. A secondary consideration is whether or not the subject matter for many of these commemoratives is worth commemorating.

    I've been stunned by the markups for Proof 70 Gold Buffalos over the past few years in addition to the huge premiums demanded by the Mint. Seems to me that prices are in runaway mode, but is anyone really buying?

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    VasantiVasanti Posts: 448 ✭✭✭✭

    The Purple Heart series was well done. I could see them being desirable pieces in the future.

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    OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 1997 unc. Jackie Robinson $5 gold (coincidentally also a baseball-themed coin), mintage 5174, peaked at about $4000 ($6400 in today's dollars) around 2004.

    The 2022 unc. Negro Leagues Baseball $5 gold, with less than 1/3 the mintage of the Robinson, is available in MS70 for less than $1000.

    That's quite a drop in demand in only 18 years. The only gold commems I know of with lower mintages are the 1915 Pan-Pac $50 round and octagonal.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you want to put some in a SDB for your great grandchildren they may turn out to be a good investment. I have no interest in them.

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    MartinMartin Posts: 843 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I thought the ugly and not popular father Flaniningron would be the bottom of the gold commems boy was I wrong

    The premiums placed on these by the mint is a huge turn off for me

    The series is starting to get long. It doesn’t even seem the gold bugs like these for stacking. Not sure why they are not more sought after on the after market. I have in the past found them for not much over melt. I haven’t been stacking for a while now so I’m not sure what they are bringing

    Was at a LCS today he had a cherrywood set for a little over 900 he told me. it didn’t even make me think about it.

    Martin

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Overdate said:
    The 1997 unc. Jackie Robinson $5 gold (coincidentally also a baseball-themed coin), mintage 5174, peaked at about $4000 ($6400 in today's dollars) around 2004.

    The 2022 unc. Negro Leagues Baseball $5 gold, with less than 1/3 the mintage of the Robinson, is available in MS70 for less than $1000.

    That's quite a drop in demand in only 18 years. The only gold commems I know of with lower mintages are the 1915 Pan-Pac $50 round and octagonal.

    The mintages go down every year because demand goes down every year. Look at the gold spouses. It is not a loved series.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    These were the province of the "flippers". When the quick profits disappeared so did the "flippers".

    You can look for a bogeyman, but you put the cart before the horse. People stopped flipping these because the buyers disappeared. The flippers responded to the drop in popularity, they didn't create it.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    As I recall, the newest lowest mintage gold commem would replace the previous one as the "key" to the series and the most recent one would merit the premium.

    There are too many commems. It was all very predictable.

    People like me should have been seen as the canary in the coal mine. When the modern commemorative programs started I jumped right in but when they started issuing more and more coins - including numerous gold coins - I dropped out of the race.

    I've never looked back.

    The mint would be better served by issuing more clad and marketing them topically.

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    erscoloerscolo Posts: 499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mintage equals demand, this is a universal constant. The gold coins will hold their gold value, but will likely not rise much if at all over their issue price. I do not collect them, have only the Apollo 11 issues, proof and uncirculated.

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    privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,190 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Let's not forget their super high markups. How many more would sell if the markup was less?

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

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    psuman08psuman08 Posts: 238 ✭✭✭

    All of the Uncs are low mintage:

    2022 D Negro Leagues Baseball Clad Unc 22CN; Mintage 9,775
    2022 P Negro Leagues Baseball Silver Unc 22CL; Mintage 8,448

    I bought both at the end of the year. $38 for a clad half was tough to pony up.

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    OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @privatecoin said:
    Let's not forget their super high markups. How many more would sell if the markup was less?

    True, but other gold coins also have super high markups and sell far more than 1507 coins. Gold commems seem to have the highest falloff in demand.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

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    ms71ms71 Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see it's available on govmint.com at $899 shipped, PCGS MS70 First Strike if anyone's interested. Not my cup of tea but it seems reasonable.

    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan,
    Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

    My mind reader refuses to charge me....
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    SilverEagle1974SilverEagle1974 Posts: 131 ✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2023 7:17PM

    Like most have said, there are too many commemorative coins produced.
    It's diluted the hobby.

    Also, the interest such as the Purple Heart, might have had more following in the 1980's, when the GI generation were still around.

    The Baseball would have also done better, possibly in the 1980's, when people were still collecting baseball cards.

    The First Ladies gold coins, there's just is NO interest.
    Most people can barely name the last 10 U.S. Presidents, let alone, their wives' names.

    Just because the coin is made of gold, does NOT mean there will be a market for it.

    Just my two cents.

    Chris

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    P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SilverEagle1974 said:
    The Baseball would have also done better, possibly in the 1980's, when people were still collecting baseball cards.

    While I agree with much of your post, this statement is puzzling given the recent explosion in sports card collecting. A Mickey Mantle rookie card sold for over $12 million last year, and our hosts make more revenue off sports card grading than coins.

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

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    7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I really have not seen much evidence of crossover at all from cards to coins or the other direction. I agree the demand is if not quite zero, very low indeed. I knew it would be low (the 2022 baseball issues) and got one of each plus the privy but only because I honor and respect the cause and certainly not to flip. I wonder what sales bomb will come next and how low can they go??

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
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    OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Instead of buying commems directly from the Mint, many collectors wait for prices to drop in the aftermarket before acquiring the coins they want. I don't think that strategy will work this time. The price of the unc. gold was about $650 when sales ended, and with its extremely low mintage I don't foresee this coin ever dropping below that price.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The premiums at the Mint have a market depressing effect. Just way too high IMO. Cheers, RickO

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    Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I forgot about the 5 dollar gold commens! Frankly I don't buy from the US Mint anymore. I don't think "flipping" is dead however. The new Morgan and Peace dollar program has room for that business model.

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    kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2023 4:05PM

    I’m a big modern commemorative cheerleader and even I didn’t buy any though anyone watching could see these mintages were going to be really low for the uncirculated gold. I ended up getting a PCGS MS70 half dollar for my registry and raw silver dollars for my Dansco album

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
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    LazybonesLazybones Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If history has taught us anything with regard to commems, low mintages do not equal value. You buy commems to enjoy them, not to make money.

    USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.

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    Wonderful comments - thank you. All very useful to the new collector. Just musing here - no facts and I have not done any arithmetic on total commemoratives sold. I wonder if there is just a lack of a unifying ideas/topics/persons for a commemorative for a large portion of the country to rally behind just one, or a small handful. If civic involvement overall is down (and I haven't been up on the literature since Putnam nearly 20 years ago) logically sales of any one or a select few commemorative would reflect this. Likening this to TV (really musing here), If I recall correctly something like 80-90 million people watched the finale of Mash, something I do not think has happened since but plenty of people are watching TV - just many many different things. Maybe its a splash of what I said and everything else folks said above.

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    Maybe one of these low mintage coins graded with the new NGCX label would be a future collectable? Sometimes, ya' just have to roll the dice.

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    MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These coins have never been very popular and since none of them ever circulate the concept of "rare low mintage issue" is really a load of BS. They are always available if you're patient and they pretty much all look like they did when they were struck.

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    ms71ms71 Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The seemingly neverending flood of new mint issues in a bewildering multitude of metals, varieties, and finishes and ever-increasing prices has got to be wearying to anyone contemplating getting into modern commemoratives.

    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan,
    Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

    My mind reader refuses to charge me....
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    GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 2020 V75 very low 1,945 mintage gold eagle was a rare modern winner.

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    stawickstawick Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:
    The 2020 V75 very low 1,945 mintage gold eagle was a rare modern winner.

    I STILL wish I was 1 of the lucky original 1945. :( oh hell.

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,706 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2023 11:42AM

    ‘’These coins have never been very popular and since none of them ever circulate the concept of "rare low mintage issue" is really a load of BS. They are always available if you're patient and they pretty much all look like they did when they were struck.’’

    Maywood: If these coins have “never been very popular” how do you explain the MINTAGE: 95,248 on the Mint State 1986 Statue of Liberty coin and the mayhem that went into trying to get an example back in 1986? Just a “load of sh-t” that never really happened such that we can ignore that fiasco entirely as well as the mintage of near 100,000 (ordered by real collectors) as compared to now 1,500+? Or, acknowledge the new rare low mintage issue (which it is) but have thoughtful dialogue on why they may never be worth much more than issue price.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:
    The 2020 V75 very low 1,945 mintage gold eagle was a rare modern winner.

    True, and I bet they do a v100.

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    johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stawick said:

    @Goldminers said:
    The 2020 V75 very low 1,945 mintage gold eagle was a rare modern winner.

    I STILL wish I was 1 of the lucky original 1945. :( oh hell.

    Based on initial price offering, I’m assuming? You can still find them on the market.

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    OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    It was precisely (25) years ago when the Jackie Robinson $5 MS Gold “fell under the radar” and resulted in a roughly 5,100 “super low mintage” modern rarity. Now, (25) years later, yet again, the $5 MS Gold Negro Leagues has produced a sub 1,600 “super, low mintage” modern rarity. Funny how history repeats itself!

    Wondercoin

    And history may very well repeat itself again. The Jackie Robinson was released in 1997, and it wasn't until several years later that the coin reached its peak price of about $4000 (or $6000+ in today's dollars). The Negro Leagues unc. coin, with less than 1/3 the Robinson mintage, is still available for under $1000, though the number offered at these prices is steadily diminishing. With a proof mintage of only 5357, the coin as a type is relatively scarce also.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

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    c0injunkyc0injunky Posts: 50 ✭✭✭

    The winner might be the unc silver dollar with a mintage below 9k. I would think most are in collector hands rather than resellers.
    Even as unpopular as modern comments are this one might appreciate in value over the next few years once collectors realize how (relatively) low-mintage they are.

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    kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Maywood said:
    These coins have never been very popular and since none of them ever circulate the concept of "rare low mintage issue" is really a load of BS. They are always available if you're patient and they pretty much all look like they did when they were struck.

    We will have to see what the future holds. That’s a very low supply. If you try to find a 2008 burnished platinum coin, you’ll definitely have difficulty. Once they fall into deep hands, they tend to stay.

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
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    erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think Ill wait on the secondary market. I have enjoyed filling my modern silver dollar commem dansco with coins that are WAY below issue price. The only ones that are going to get me are the silver buffalo of 2001 and the Leif Erikson and a few of the '96 olympics.

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    WCCWCC Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For the gold coinage, if the sentiments on coin forums are an accurate indicator, there are probably more speculator buyers due to the mintage than buyers buying it as a collectible.

    If this is accurate, it doesn't matter how low the mintage. The gold is too expensive for the collector appeal and isn't competitive versus the alternatives in a similar price range.

    It's somewhat different for the silver and clad, but not much. The prior example of the clad with a mintage below 10K, sure it's low absolutely but still common for the quality.

    The thing about commemoratives is that it's an artificial series. It's an amalgamation of unrelated coins which US collecting arbitrarily classifies as one. Most collectors buy the few or low proportion they actually like and ignore the rest.

    I agree with the prior posts, an oversupply of mostly uninteresting mediocrity.

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    MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,310 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Go get them all near spot and sell below!

    And graded moderns like these add no value for me as I would not pay the difference. Others will.

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
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    I remember a time when collectors thought grading & collecting Modern-Gold-Eagles was crazy.

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    LazybonesLazybones Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NorthStar said:
    I remember a time when collectors thought grading & collecting Modern-Gold-Eagles was crazy.

    I still do. But, if we all liked the same things life would be pretty boring.

    USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,706 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ‘’The Negro Leagues unc. coin, with less than 1/3 the Robinson mintage, is still available for under $1000, though the number offered at these prices is steadily diminishing.’’

    Good observation Overdate. In December, there were around (50) available for sale on eBay. Today, it appears there are -2- coins available under $1,000 delivered with one of those coins being a raw capsuled coin. It should be interesting to see if the next 10 or 20 coins that appear on eBay command significantly higher levels.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For collecting I prefer old coins. These are more of a bullion play to me.

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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,851 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Been a long time since i’ve ordered any gold commemorative, save for 2016 gold mercury dime, gold standing liberty quarter and gold walking liberty half.

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    OLCOLC Posts: 394 ✭✭✭

    Some gold Spouse coins are through the roof. Has anybody looked to see what PCGS PR70 First Strike Barbara Bush Proofs are selling for. Sometimes things need to brew for a little while. I had some Proof Buffalo's in late 2008 PCGS First Strike and I was having trouble selling them. About 6 months later it was off to the races.

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    DNADaveDNADave Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    Been a long time since i’ve ordered any gold commemorative, save for 2016 gold mercury dime, gold standing liberty quarter and gold walking liberty half.

    My local shop has the 2016 gold slq for 598. That seems reasonable. I have the dime so I may go ahead and get the quarter.

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DNADave said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    Been a long time since i’ve ordered any gold commemorative, save for 2016 gold mercury dime, gold standing liberty quarter and gold walking liberty half.

    My local shop has the 2016 gold slq for 598. That seems reasonable. I have the dime so I may go ahead and get the quarter.

    600 is the going rate for those in ogp. I got lucky and found a pcgs ms70 first strike for $725 a few months ago and scooped it up. They normally go around 8-9

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