I think we just get a Reprieve for a year on the 1099 Income reporting for our Cards from the IRS?

thedutymon11

Afternoon,

Hoping I'm reading this correctly, but does this mean we just got a 1 year bump till 2024 (From Jan 2023) on the reporting of E-Commerce sites (Reporting of ALL incomes of $600 or more), of the 2021 Rescue Plan enacted IRS Rule that was to go into affect in 2022. It mentions Etsy and E-Bay, not Myslabs, but they are the same as E-Bay when it comes to this type of reporting?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/personalfinance/irs-delays-tax-reporting-change-for-1099-k-on-venmo-paypal-business-payments/ar-AA15C1mG

If I'm reading this correctly, this could be Huge for me!

Any opinions?

YeeHaw!

Thanks

Neil

mintonlypls

I saw that in the news...and like it!

GroceryRackPack

Oh Yeah...

miwlvrn

The article mentions the prior reporting threshold of $20,000. So, it would theoretically seem like someone who took in $19,999 on each platform separately would not be issued 1099's but someone who earned $20,001 on just one platform but zero on all the others would get a 1099. Apparent rewards for diversification?

82FootballWaxMemorys

The onus under 20k won't be on the eCommerce site under 20k but it remains with taxpayer if over $600.

It's not a reprieve just simply easier for some to more commit the non-reported income crime.

BTW I feel $600 is draconian as that number on unreported incomes has been in place since the 1980's. It shoudl at least be adjusted for inflation!

IMHO $7500 would be a fair amount, to stimulate the economy maybe 10K. If so I can go back to selling stuff - but not trading cards i don't sell those, at least yet.

Yes, I correctly and honestly report my income, I also stop at red light and stop signs. Even if you do get away with it in this world, the lord knows!

dontippet

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:
The onus under 20k won't be on the eCommerce site under 20k but it remains with taxpayer if over $600.

It's not a reprieve just simply easier for some to more commit the non-reported income crime.

BTW I feel $600 is draconian as that number on unreported incomes has been in place since the 1980's. It shoudl at least be adjusted for inflation!

IMHO $7500 would be a fair amount, to stimulate the economy maybe 10K. If so I can go back to selling stuff - but not trading cards i don't sell those, at least yet.

Yes, I correctly and honestly report my income, I also stop at red light and stop signs. Even if you do get away with it in this world, the lord knows!

I wholeheartedly agree. It pains me to see mature grown ups who get excited when procedures change that allow them to cheat the system for personal dishonest gain.

alifaxwa2

Not everyone gets a reprieve, 2 states already had laws on their own requiring reporting at $600. Maryland is one, I don’t recall the other.

dontippet

I believe Illinois requires at $20K. Started last year.

lahmejoon

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:
The onus under 20k won't be on the eCommerce site under 20k but it remains with taxpayer if over $600.

It's not a reprieve just simply easier for some to more commit the non-reported income crime.

BTW I feel $600 is draconian as that number on unreported incomes has been in place since the 1980's. It shoudl at least be adjusted for inflation!

IMHO $7500 would be a fair amount, to stimulate the economy maybe 10K. If so I can go back to selling stuff - but not trading cards i don't sell those, at least yet.

Yes, I correctly and honestly report my income, I also stop at red light and stop signs. Even if you do get away with it in this world, the lord knows!

This is 100% correct. The $600 reporting, although consistent with other 1099 reporting requirements, presents an issue for folks who are truly offloading personal effects or household items on online platforms. Those folks would receive a 1099 for their sales and then have to report on their return that there was no profit (since most household items are purchased for more than what they sell for in the secondary market). If this is true, then I'm happy I won't have to deal with the average person who receives one because they offloaded some personal items. However, 82Football is right - if you are conducting business for profit, or even a hobby for which you are profiting, the onus is on you to report it.

GilR

Responding to lahmejoon's comment, what if, instead of selling "personal effects or household items" one bought, say, a 2022 Topps value box for $25 and then sold a Rickey Henderson SP one doesn't want for $10?

daltex

@miwlvrn said:
The article mentions the prior reporting threshold of $20,000. So, it would theoretically seem like someone who took in $19,999 on each platform separately would not be issued 1099's but someone who earned $20,001 on just one platform but zero on all the others would get a 1099. Apparent rewards for diversification?

Yes, well if I were to sell $15,000 at eBay, how would they know if I sold $1000 or $10,000 at the PWCC Vault?

I'll bet I'm not the only one who wishes this was announced before late December.

82FootballWaxMemorys

@daltex said:

@miwlvrn said:
The article mentions the prior reporting threshold of $20,000. So, it would theoretically seem like someone who took in $19,999 on each platform separately would not be issued 1099's but someone who earned $20,001 on just one platform but zero on all the others would get a 1099. Apparent rewards for diversification?

I'll bet I'm not the only one who wishes this was announced before late December.

Perhaps that was the "plan" all along? I'm sure eBay, etsy and other platforms are aware they lost a bunch of occasional sellers this past year and in this case for nothing.

A relative of mine in 2020 and 2021 sold slightly less than $1000 a year on etsy on hand crafted items. She stopped this year as the extra tax paper work + taxes would have meant taking a loss. Yeah she had receipts for all the yarn, wool etc but the main expenditure was her time. Just not worth it to spend all those hours to lose money.

Again, a $600 limit in 2022/2023 is draconian.

coolstanley

So, in other words.... people who used to sell on ebay who haven't sold anything this year, have 9 days left this year to sell 19,999 worth of stuff and avoid getting a 1099?

lol

thedutymon11

Evening,

Nice to have the " Holier Than Thou " crowd chime in. Why do some always assume that mentioning something like this is somehow a recipe to cheat the Government....Wow...just Wow (Must be a Guilty Conscience). This is about Card Money......Period!

I have Paid my Taxes for the last 45-48 years, and my last ticket was 27 years ago for doing 36 in a 30, and I haven't had a Stop Sign Ticket since Reagan was President!.

I am sure that I am not alone in finding the fact that $600 is a ridiculous Threshold and if I Could, I Would avoid that arbitrary threshold, but I can't. I have My Taxes done by Professionals, every year, based on my 1099's, so receiving 1-3 less, He!! Yes! Not my decision, done by the IRS, and to be able to DECLARE a REAL Profit amount instead of some BS Arbitrary amount on a 1099! Sign Me Up!

YeeHaw!

So Please keep your Veiled Insinuations to yourself and Have A Great Evening!

I know of at least 3 of my buddies who (As I have) quit selling on E-Bay because of this, and not for your Tax Cheating Reasons! The number of reasons is Legion! The Plethora of E-Bay Fees over the last couple years, Auto Sales Taxes deduction, Charging my customer a Fee to me on the shipping charge he pays! This BS Authentication Service (Soon it will be a Paid Requirement), from some entity who has Nothing to do with Cards! And On and On. Spending $$$ Thousands to collect what I enjoy, but when I sell a portion of a purchase for a few hundred (Less than I Paid) to offset a purchase, I get dinged like I just made a Profitable Sale, And don't give me the BS of keeping track of hundreds & hundreds, to thousands of Sales and their splits, just not worth it anymore. Said goodbye to E-Bay 6 months ago, just wish I'd sold more off has been mentioned! And then after 23 years of selling on E-Bay, I'm done and just glad this over.

Have a Great Evening!

YeeHaw!

Neil

82FootballWaxMemorys

@coolstanley said:
So, in other words.... people who used to sell on ebay who haven't sold anything this year, have 9 days left this year to sell 19,999 worth of stuff and avoid getting a 1099?

lol

9 days left to sell and collect! thing is doesn't ebay now hold your funds for a 2 days? if so then it's 7 days....

lahmejoon

@GilR said:
Responding to lahmejoon's comment, what if, instead of selling "personal effects or household items" one bought, say, a 2022 Topps value box for $25 and then sold a Rickey Henderson SP one doesn't want for $10?

Assuming the Rickey came out of the value box and nothing else was of value, if you are in the trade or business of selling cards, you would have a deductible loss. If this is a hobby, you have a nondeductible loss.

lahmejoon

@thedutymon11 said:
Evening,

Nice to have the " Holier Than Thou " crowd chime in. Why do some always assume that mentioning something like this is somehow a recipe to cheat the Government....Wow...just Wow (Must be a Guilty Conscience). This is about Card Money......Period!

I have Paid my Taxes for the last 45-48 years, and my last ticket was 27 years ago for doing 36 in a 30, and I haven't had a Stop Sign Ticket since Reagan was President!.

I am sure that I am not alone in finding the fact that $600 is a ridiculous Threshold and if I Could, I Would avoid that arbitrary threshold, but I can't. I have My Taxes done by Professionals, every year, based on my 1099's, so receiving 1-3 less, He!! Yes! Not my decision, done by the IRS, and to be able to DECLARE a REAL Profit amount instead of some BS Arbitrary amount on a 1099! Sign Me Up!

YeeHaw!

So Please keep your Veiled Insinuations to yourself and Have A Great Evening!

I know of at least 3 of my buddies who (As I have) quit selling on E-Bay because of this, and not for your Tax Cheating Reasons! The number of reasons is Legion! The Plethora of E-Bay Fees over the last couple years, Auto Sales Taxes deduction, Charging my customer a Fee to me on the shipping charge he pays! This BS Authentication Service (Soon it will be a Paid Requirement), from some entity who has Nothing to do with Cards! And On and On. Spending $$$ Thousands to collect what I enjoy, but when I sell a portion of a purchase for a few hundred (Less than I Paid) to offset a purchase, I get dinged like I just made a Profitable Sale, And don't give me the BS of keeping track of hundreds & hundreds, to thousands of Sales and their splits, just not worth it anymore. Said goodbye to E-Bay 6 months ago, just wish I'd sold more off has been mentioned! And then after 23 years of selling on E-Bay, I'm done and just glad this over.

Have a Great Evening!

YeeHaw!

Neil

I appreciate your contribution to the forum, Neil. Maybe you are in the minority, but the primary reason to get excited about the delay in 1099 reporting for most people is to skirt having to report the income. Of the collector/dealers I know locally (which are only 3), two of them have minimized ebay listings because of the 1099 reporting. One of them knows I'm a tax guy and is constantly asking me if there are ways he can avoid reporting his ebay sales. This announcement is his answer. I'm glad I don't do his tax return. LOL

GilR

@lahmejoon said:

@GilR said:
Responding to lahmejoon's comment, what if, instead of selling "personal effects or household items" one bought, say, a 2022 Topps value box for $25 and then sold a Rickey Henderson SP one doesn't want for $10?

Assuming the Rickey came out of the value box and nothing else was of value, if you are in the trade or business of selling cards, you would have a deductible loss. If this is a hobby, you have a nondeductible loss.

I didn't phrase my comment correctly, since my point wasn't the $15 loss, but that selling the $10 card would look to the government like $10 that could be taxed because it was income, when in fact there had been an outlay of money to purchase it greater than its value.

Really, the better example, in terms of what I'm trying to say, would be if I had bought a PSA 10 Jeremy Pena rookie card back in February for X and after the season sold it for 2X -- the government would view all 2X as taxable. I do understand the difference between a business and a hobby, but am just saying it doesn't seem right, which is why I think the $600 threshold is too low.

nam812

@GilR said:
.....Really, the better example, in terms of what I'm trying to say, would be if I had bought a PSA 10 Jeremy Pena rookie card back in February for X and after the season sold it for 2X -- the government would view all 2X as taxable........

I'm not even close to a tax guy, but my common sense is telling me that if you can prove you bought it for X, then only the X that's actually profit is taxable, not both Xs.

burghman

@nam812 said:

@GilR said:
.....Really, the better example, in terms of what I'm trying to say, would be if I had bought a PSA 10 Jeremy Pena rookie card back in February for X and after the season sold it for 2X -- the government would view all 2X as taxable........

I'm not even close to a tax guy, but my common sense is telling me that if you can prove you bought it for X, then only the X that's actually profit is taxable, not both Xs.

I believe that this is correct too. Shrewd folks have been strategically taking losses for years to offset gains - if you know you bought something at a peak that it’ll never reach again (2X), sell that sucker for X and the gain mentioned by GilR/nam812’s sale is completely offset by this loss of X and no tax is owed.

Not an accountant, so don’t quote me in an IRS audit

lahmejoon

@GilR said:

@lahmejoon said:

@GilR said:
Responding to lahmejoon's comment, what if, instead of selling "personal effects or household items" one bought, say, a 2022 Topps value box for $25 and then sold a Rickey Henderson SP one doesn't want for $10?

Assuming the Rickey came out of the value box and nothing else was of value, if you are in the trade or business of selling cards, you would have a deductible loss. If this is a hobby, you have a nondeductible loss.

I didn't phrase my comment correctly, since my point wasn't the $15 loss, but that selling the $10 card would look to the government like $10 that could be taxed because it was income, when in fact there had been an outlay of money to purchase it greater than its value.

Really, the better example, in terms of what I'm trying to say, would be if I had bought a PSA 10 Jeremy Pena rookie card back in February for X and after the season sold it for 2X -- the government would view all 2X as taxable. I do understand the difference between a business and a hobby, but am just saying it doesn't seem right, which is why I think the $600 threshold is too low.

I agree with you - the $600, although has always been federal law for taxing services, I feel is too low for this kind of merchant service reporting.

lahmejoon

@nam812 said:

@GilR said:
.....Really, the better example, in terms of what I'm trying to say, would be if I had bought a PSA 10 Jeremy Pena rookie card back in February for X and after the season sold it for 2X -- the government would view all 2X as taxable........

I'm not even close to a tax guy, but my common sense is telling me that if you can prove you bought it for X, then only the X that's actually profit is taxable, not both Xs.

This is right. You report 2x as revenue, and then back out x as cost of goods, leaving x as taxable profit.

West22

@lahmejoon said:

@nam812 said:

@GilR said:
.....Really, the better example, in terms of what I'm trying to say, would be if I had bought a PSA 10 Jeremy Pena rookie card back in February for X and after the season sold it for 2X -- the government would view all 2X as taxable........

I'm not even close to a tax guy, but my common sense is telling me that if you can prove you bought it for X, then only the X that's actually profit is taxable, not both Xs.

This is right. You report 2x as revenue, and then back out x as cost of goods, leaving x as taxable profit.

This ^ is correct, but the below quote:

@burghman said:

@nam812 said:

@GilR said:
.....Really, the better example, in terms of what I'm trying to say, would be if I had bought a PSA 10 Jeremy Pena rookie card back in February for X and after the season sold it for 2X -- the government would view all 2X as taxable........

I'm not even close to a tax guy, but my common sense is telling me that if you can prove you bought it for X, then only the X that's actually profit is taxable, not both Xs.

I believe that this is correct too. Shrewd folks have been strategically taking losses for years to offset gains - if you know you bought something at a peak that it’ll never reach again (2X), sell that sucker for X and the gain mentioned by GilR/nam812’s sale is completely offset by this loss of X and no tax is owed.

Not an accountant, so don’t quote me in an IRS audit

This is wrong. You cannot tax loss harvest with consumer goods. It's right on the IRS website. Any gains on sales (buying for X and selling for 2X) are taxed as capital gains with 1X as the taxable gain, and any losses (buying for 2X and selling for X) are taxed at $0, not -X. The loss would not offset the gain.

daltex

Better to talk to your tax guy than listen to some clowns on the Internet (including me), but keep in mind that you owe tax on the X from the Pena gain even if you don't get a 1099.

But see above.

West22

Agree a tax professional is the correct route, but the information is right on the IRS website:

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/understanding-your-form-1099-k

GilR

I'm making a note so that I remember to consult this thread when working on my taxes.

It was much simpler when we were kids, and could trade a Nolan Ryan for a Pete Rose instead of selling that Ryan and buying a Rose with the money.

burghman

@West22 said:
Agree a tax professional is the correct route, but the information is right on the IRS website:

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/understanding-your-form-1099-k

I stand corrected - thanks. A professional is definitely the way to go - the instructions at that link for dealing with a loss seem to hinge upon getting a form 1099-k. Since I’ve never gotten a form for sales, I always take my sold items for the year and total up the sales income minus my cost - whether I made or lost on each line item - then report that final amount. Once forms start coming in, it might need to be handled differently. I’m small potatoes so I’m not too worried about it, but your CPA will know what to do should you need to go that direction.

dontippet

@lahmejoon said:

@thedutymon11 said:
Evening,

Nice to have the " Holier Than Thou " crowd chime in. Why do some always assume that mentioning something like this is somehow a recipe to cheat the Government....Wow...just Wow (Must be a Guilty Conscience). This is about Card Money......Period!

I have Paid my Taxes for the last 45-48 years, and my last ticket was 27 years ago for doing 36 in a 30, and I haven't had a Stop Sign Ticket since Reagan was President!.

I am sure that I am not alone in finding the fact that $600 is a ridiculous Threshold and if I Could, I Would avoid that arbitrary threshold, but I can't. I have My Taxes done by Professionals, every year, based on my 1099's, so receiving 1-3 less, He!! Yes! Not my decision, done by the IRS, and to be able to DECLARE a REAL Profit amount instead of some BS Arbitrary amount on a 1099! Sign Me Up!

YeeHaw!

So Please keep your Veiled Insinuations to yourself and Have A Great Evening!

I know of at least 3 of my buddies who (As I have) quit selling on E-Bay because of this, and not for your Tax Cheating Reasons! The number of reasons is Legion! The Plethora of E-Bay Fees over the last couple years, Auto Sales Taxes deduction, Charging my customer a Fee to me on the shipping charge he pays! This BS Authentication Service (Soon it will be a Paid Requirement), from some entity who has Nothing to do with Cards! And On and On. Spending $$$ Thousands to collect what I enjoy, but when I sell a portion of a purchase for a few hundred (Less than I Paid) to offset a purchase, I get dinged like I just made a Profitable Sale, And don't give me the BS of keeping track of hundreds & hundreds, to thousands of Sales and their splits, just not worth it anymore. Said goodbye to E-Bay 6 months ago, just wish I'd sold more off has been mentioned! And then after 23 years of selling on E-Bay, I'm done and just glad this over.

Have a Great Evening!

YeeHaw!

Neil

I appreciate your contribution to the forum, Neil. Maybe you are in the minority, but the primary reason to get excited about the delay in 1099 reporting for most people is to skirt having to report the income. Of the collector/dealers I know locally (which are only 3), two of them have minimized ebay listings because of the 1099 reporting. One of them knows I'm a tax guy and is constantly asking me if there are ways he can avoid reporting his ebay sales. This announcement is his answer. I'm glad I don't do his tax return. LOL

Neil, it sounds like you are doing the right thing and I appreciate it. Like Lahmejoon expressed, I, too, assume that most posts about the 1099 are to skirt claiming profits. My comment had nothing to do with being "holier than thou". But if you and I pay our fair share of taxes, and others don't, then eventually our taxes are going to go up. If we all played fairly and paid our share, then our taxes may actually go down. Thank you Neil for doing your part.

daltex

@West22 said:
Agree a tax professional is the correct route, but the information is right on the IRS website:

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/understanding-your-form-1099-k

Now you see, I wouldn't have automatically assumed that "collectibles" ae "personal items" just from reading this.

lahmejoon

@West22 said:
Agree a tax professional is the correct route, but the information is right on the IRS website:

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/understanding-your-form-1099-k

This is true as it pertains to personal-use assets. So, if you bought a card purely for enjoyment purposes, then it's a personal-use asset and a loss would be nondeductible and not nettable against other gains. If you bought the card for investment purposes and you sold for a loss, it would be a capital loss, which would be nettable against other cap gains. You have to be able to establish investment intent, though, which is more difficult and is a whole other rabbit hole to go down.

GreenSneakers

@GilR said:
I'm making a note so that I remember to consult this thread when working on my taxes.

Oh please sweet Moses don't do that. There is more bad info on this thread than there was in my 8th grade catholic school health class. If you have large gains and losses, get a professional to help.

1all

There is a reason that Congress funded the hiring of 87,000 new IRS agents - to go after the crypto donks and the folks just scraping by and making $800 selling 2021 Juan Soto cards they bought at Walmart. The IRS is just waiting for them to mess something up on their Tax Return and pounce.

GilR

@GreenSneakers said:

@GilR said:
I'm making a note so that I remember to consult this thread when working on my taxes.

Oh please sweet Moses don't do that. There is more bad info on this thread than there was in my 8th grade catholic school health class. If you have large gains and losses, get a professional to help.

GreenSneakers, don't worry, I only meant that I would return to this thread so that I could remember the issues raised here. I will not make any final decision based on what's here.

lahmejoon,
In response to your comment, "You have to be able to establish investment intent, though, which is more difficult and is a whole other rabbit hole to go down," I do have e-mails I sent a friend this spring to tell him I'd bought three Clint Frazier rookie cards (two PSA 10 and one PSA 9) for a total of $30.18, since I had a hunch that in Wrigley he'd hit 20+ homers, and that this would be enough in a major market to drive up their value. So I could certainly demonstrate intent there if I ever find a buyer...

steel75

I heard it was delayed because of good old politics. There are already 2 proposed bills by both parties that would raise the limit thousands. Just a matter of finding a middle ground because they BOTH want to raise it.