@cladking said:
Well... ...I might be hesitant to pay a lot for one.
Maybe it's safe to buy the ones that have stood the test of time (~25 years) if you store it well. Zincolns stand up pretty well under good conditions.
Just beware of breaks in the sheathing and bubbles.
Attrition rates are simply staggering and increasing. The cents in circulation are almost all uncollectible due to spotting and damage. Early zincolns are disappearing about as fast as copper.
It's good to have some tolerance to pain if you like modern cents.
Or you could just buy a nice 09-S VDB and not have to worry about it.
From PCGS CoinFacts, a little vignette from David Hall: A few years ago, as a 12 year old, my son was collecting Lincoln cents. We'd go to the Saturday bid board at the local coin shop and he'd go to the Long Beach coin show and buy a few coins. He was buying circulated coins and trying to get one of every date. He would always look at 1909-S VDBs, but he couldn't afford one. One day he made the following statement, "Dad, I'd eat worms for an S VDB." That about says it all, doesn't it.
Several 1990 no s cents on ebay. Some slabbed and pricey, some not slabbed an not so pricey. I don't think I would get a raw one. I vote for the SVDB. If I had one of each, that would be my $.02.
@WCC said:
The 1990 no S proof is an error. All errors by definition are rare or scarce, so there is nothing unusual about it. I consider most no S proofs common errors. It's not an equivalent comparison.
Yeah, and the 1943 copper pennies were "just errors", too, as was the '37-D three legged buffalo. indeed, the 1913 liberty nickels and most of the 1804 dollars weren't even "errors" at all and were made illegally and stolen from the mint. Some of rarities were never intended to be released by the mint at all.
There is no equivalence between the 1913 LHN and 1804 dollar with this coin. It's got about as much to do with this subject as the price of tea in China. I never said a thing about the 1943 bronze cent. I don't share the consensus opinion, but don't deny the self-evident fact that it's got a very high US collector preference.
The 37-D Buffalo nickel is generally considered "necessary" for a complete set while the NO S proof isn't. That's a point in numerous posts here aside from mine.
@ChrisH821 said:
I would probably go for the no S proof due to the tiny number available, 09-S VDBs are not rare. But that's just me, your collecting views might be different than mine.
You are correct, the 1909-S VDB cent is not rare. It is highly desirable, much more so than any no-S proof.
@rays Are you sure about that. It seems to me that a 1975 No S Roosevelt dime brought $456,000 at auction. Seems HIGHLY desirable to me.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
@gumby1234 said: @rays Are you sure about that. It seems to me that a 1975 No S Roosevelt dime brought $456,000 at auction. Seems HIGHLY desirable to me.
If you had the opportunity to buy that coin for $450,000, would you?
@ChrisH821 said:
I would probably go for the no S proof due to the tiny number available, 09-S VDBs are not rare. But that's just me, your collecting views might be different than mine.
You are correct, the 1909-S VDB cent is not rare. It is highly desirable, much more so than any no-S proof.
@rays Are you sure about that. It seems to me that a 1975 No S Roosevelt dime brought $456,000 at auction. Seems HIGHLY desirable to me.
Yes I am sure. The fact that a 1975 No S dime (one of two known) sold for nearly a half million dollars does not equate that such an issue is more desirable than the 1909-S VDB cent. There are many thousands times more people who desire a 1909-S VDB than the 1975 no S dime. Other factors aside, it is often the case when there are only one or two known of an issue that the demand for it is limited, as it becomes essentially uncollectible. This is why Dr. Sheldon labeled such coins in the early date large cent series as non-collectible, and excluded them from his Sheldon variety numbers S1-S295 (1793-1814).
@Glen2022 said:
Several 1990 no s cents on ebay. Some slabbed and pricey, some not slabbed an not so pricey. I don't think I would get a raw one. I vote for the SVDB. If I had one of each, that would be my $.02.
There are currently 6 1990 no S proofs available on eBay, and 66 09-S VDB graded 63 or above by the top 3.
Almost without exception, the raw ones listed are not the actual variety. This is one of those issues that any "uninformed" seller thinks or has convinced themselves they have.. in my opinion these are the types who should have their eBay accounts deleted because they either do no research before trying to sell something or they are outright trying to scam, both inexcusable.
Only one of the raw ones listed has a photo showing a legitimate no-S proof
@Glen2022 said:
Several 1990 no s cents on ebay. Some slabbed and pricey, some not slabbed an not so pricey. I don't think I would get a raw one. I vote for the SVDB. If I had one of each, that would be my $.02.
There are currently 6 1990 no S proofs available on eBay, and 66 09-S VDB graded 63 or above by the top 3.
Almost without exception, the raw ones listed are not the actual variety. This is one of those issues that any "uninformed" seller thinks or has convinced themselves they have.. in my opinion these are the types who should have their eBay accounts deleted because they either do no research before trying to sell something or they are outright trying to scam, both inexcusable.
I half agree. I kind of excuse the ignorant. They have themselves been fooled by the YouTube hype. They can likely be reformed.
@johnny010 said:
100 years from now, 90 no S takes over the played out VDB.
In 100 years, who on this thread today will care?
It ain't over til the bagpipes are playing. 😉
They say the first person who will live to 150 years has already been born. They say a lot of things though...
I also had someone tell me that redheads will be extinct in 100 years due to recessive genes, but I have been seeing more redheads (including kids) than ever before.
I see 5 1990 no s cents, 4 are certified, one in proof set. Probably at least 100+ 1909 s vdb on eBay. Demand is much higher for 1909. David bowers said people were selling the s vdb by the rolls years ago.
@Glen2022 said:
Several 1990 no s cents on ebay. Some slabbed and pricey, some not slabbed an not so pricey. I don't think I would get a raw one. I vote for the SVDB. If I had one of each, that would be my $.02.
There are currently 6 1990 no S proofs available on eBay, and 66 09-S VDB graded 63 or above by the top 3.
Almost without exception, the raw ones listed are not the actual variety. This is one of those issues that any "uninformed" seller thinks or has convinced themselves they have.. in my opinion these are the types who should have their eBay accounts deleted because they either do no research before trying to sell something or they are outright trying to scam, both inexcusable.
Only one of the raw ones listed has a photo showing a legitimate no-S proof
What’s the indicator that One is different than the other “no s”
@Glen2022 said:
Several 1990 no s cents on ebay. Some slabbed and pricey, some not slabbed an not so pricey. I don't think I would get a raw one. I vote for the SVDB. If I had one of each, that would be my $.02.
There are currently 6 1990 no S proofs available on eBay, and 66 09-S VDB graded 63 or above by the top 3.
Almost without exception, the raw ones listed are not the actual variety. This is one of those issues that any "uninformed" seller thinks or has convinced themselves they have.. in my opinion these are the types who should have their eBay accounts deleted because they either do no research before trying to sell something or they are outright trying to scam, both inexcusable.
Only one of the raw ones listed has a photo showing a legitimate no-S proof
What’s the indicator that One is different than the other “no s”
@Glen2022 said:
Several 1990 no s cents on ebay. Some slabbed and pricey, some not slabbed an not so pricey. I don't think I would get a raw one. I vote for the SVDB. If I had one of each, that would be my $.02.
There are currently 6 1990 no S proofs available on eBay, and 66 09-S VDB graded 63 or above by the top 3.
Almost without exception, the raw ones listed are not the actual variety. This is one of those issues that any "uninformed" seller thinks or has convinced themselves they have.. in my opinion these are the types who should have their eBay accounts deleted because they either do no research before trying to sell something or they are outright trying to scam, both inexcusable.
Only one of the raw ones listed has a photo showing a legitimate no-S proof
What’s the indicator that One is different than the other “no s”
@Glen2022 said:
Several 1990 no s cents on ebay. Some slabbed and pricey, some not slabbed an not so pricey. I don't think I would get a raw one. I vote for the SVDB. If I had one of each, that would be my $.02.
There are currently 6 1990 no S proofs available on eBay, and 66 09-S VDB graded 63 or above by the top 3.
Almost without exception, the raw ones listed are not the actual variety. This is one of those issues that any "uninformed" seller thinks or has convinced themselves they have.. in my opinion these are the types who should have their eBay accounts deleted because they either do no research before trying to sell something or they are outright trying to scam, both inexcusable.
Only one of the raw ones listed has a photo showing a legitimate no-S proof
What’s the indicator that One is different than the other “no s”
@Glen2022 said:
Several 1990 no s cents on ebay. Some slabbed and pricey, some not slabbed an not so pricey. I don't think I would get a raw one. I vote for the SVDB. If I had one of each, that would be my $.02.
There are currently 6 1990 no S proofs available on eBay, and 66 09-S VDB graded 63 or above by the top 3.
Almost without exception, the raw ones listed are not the actual variety. This is one of those issues that any "uninformed" seller thinks or has convinced themselves they have.. in my opinion these are the types who should have their eBay accounts deleted because they either do no research before trying to sell something or they are outright trying to scam, both inexcusable.
@Glen2022 said:
Several 1990 no s cents on ebay. Some slabbed and pricey, some not slabbed an not so pricey. I don't think I would get a raw one. I vote for the SVDB. If I had one of each, that would be my $.02.
There are currently 6 1990 no S proofs available on eBay, and 66 09-S VDB graded 63 or above by the top 3.
Almost without exception, the raw ones listed are not the actual variety. This is one of those issues that any "uninformed" seller thinks or has convinced themselves they have.. in my opinion these are the types who should have their eBay accounts deleted because they either do no research before trying to sell something or they are outright trying to scam, both inexcusable.
Only one of the raw ones listed has a photo
What’s the indicator that One is different than the other “no s”
It's cameo.
This one doesn’t look Cameo
That one is not a proof... or at least doesn't appear to be.
@Glen2022 said:
Several 1990 no s cents on ebay. Some slabbed and pricey, some not slabbed an not so pricey. I don't think I would get a raw one. I vote for the SVDB. If I had one of each, that would be my $.02.
There are currently 6 1990 no S proofs available on eBay, and 66 09-S VDB graded 63 or above by the top 3.
Almost without exception, the raw ones listed are not the actual variety. This is one of those issues that any "uninformed" seller thinks or has convinced themselves they have.. in my opinion these are the types who should have their eBay accounts deleted because they either do no research before trying to sell something or they are outright trying to scam, both inexcusable.
Only one of the raw ones listed has a photo
What’s the indicator that One is different than the other “no s”
It's cameo.
This one doesn’t look Cameo
That one is not a proof... or at least doesn't appear to be.
I've loved @cladking and his wisdom about modern coinage for two decades. I used to buy 1990 no S sets many years ago raw. I found the "perfect" one and stopped. It graded 69 on the first shot. PCGS is not going to slab a 70, so I never submitted it again. Both 1909-s vdb and 1990 no S are fantastic coins to have in your collection.
Both are cool, but I'll take the 1909-S VDB all day long. 2019 was a great time to buy these, got a very nice AU-58 with CAC for less than $1K back then.
Started collecting Lincoln Cents in 1956.... Bought one of the "Discovery 1990 NO S PRoof set in 1990" and many more over the years. Researched extensively since then; read my article them in Sol Taylor's "Standard Guide to the Lincoln Cent" 4th Edition published in 1999.
Here we are, over 30 years later, and most proof sets have been searched for this rarity so I seriously doubt any more are to be found? Granted, there might be 1 or a couple, but not likely. For over 20 years, I worked at the largest Numismatic Auction house, and bought tens of thousands of proof sets from the public, and did not find 1 single 1990 no "S" Proof Set out of all of them! Additionally, the population reports from the major grading services are most likely inflated due to resubmissions?? Why would this be? Well, the main reason is neither PCGS nor NGC have to date graded a single Proof 70 for this variety, so there are folks out there that hope/Wish to be the first!!
I've already shown my hand, but will close with my thoughts that the 1909-S-VDB is neither rare nor scarce... Pick up the phone and you can buy any number of them is just about any grade/Color... The 1990 No "S" proof cent is a cool coin period!!!
Virtually no one (other than some eBay sellers) think the 1909-S VDB is rare. What it is is the coin hundreds of thousands of collectors spent so many hours searching through change and rolls of coins to find, to fill the hole in that Whitman folder. The 1990 No "S" proof? How many people have dreamed of finding one except for being able to sell it and buy the 1909-S VDB they always wanted?
There are a number of Lincoln cent varieties that are rarer than the 1909SVDB (other DDs, wide/narrow AM). Not sure why we're obsessing over the 1990 S-less on this thread.
The 09SVDB is in a different class. It really isn't a direct comparison. Each individual can decide for themselves what to spend their coin dollars on. The audiences for each one aren't really the same.
The proof 1960 large over small date cent has a 1/3 smaller PCGS population than the proof 1990 no “S” cent, yet sells at only about 1/10 of its price. Which variety is the better value?
Pcgs price guide is $5000
Got it for $3900, through GC, week after Christmas
Maybe some people didn’t want to spend anymore money after the holidays
I think I got a good deal
Ms64 RD
Comments
Or you could just buy a nice 09-S VDB and not have to worry about it.
From PCGS CoinFacts, a little vignette from David Hall:
A few years ago, as a 12 year old, my son was collecting Lincoln cents. We'd go to the Saturday bid board at the local coin shop and he'd go to the Long Beach coin show and buy a few coins. He was buying circulated coins and trying to get one of every date. He would always look at 1909-S VDBs, but he couldn't afford one. One day he made the following statement, "Dad, I'd eat worms for an S VDB." That about says it all, doesn't it.
Several 1990 no s cents on ebay. Some slabbed and pricey, some not slabbed an not so pricey. I don't think I would get a raw one. I vote for the SVDB. If I had one of each, that would be my $.02.
There is no equivalence between the 1913 LHN and 1804 dollar with this coin. It's got about as much to do with this subject as the price of tea in China. I never said a thing about the 1943 bronze cent. I don't share the consensus opinion, but don't deny the self-evident fact that it's got a very high US collector preference.
The 37-D Buffalo nickel is generally considered "necessary" for a complete set while the NO S proof isn't. That's a point in numerous posts here aside from mine.
Indeed. But an '09-S VDB would look pretty funny flanked by an 89-S and a '91-S.
Ok. Fine. Buy the 90 and worry about it rotting away- whatever makes you happy.
@rays Are you sure about that. It seems to me that a 1975 No S Roosevelt dime brought $456,000 at auction. Seems HIGHLY desirable to me.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
If you had the opportunity to buy that coin for $450,000, would you?
@MasonG If I had that kind of money to spend on anything I might. 456 dollars is more in line with my budget.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Yes I am sure. The fact that a 1975 No S dime (one of two known) sold for nearly a half million dollars does not equate that such an issue is more desirable than the 1909-S VDB cent. There are many thousands times more people who desire a 1909-S VDB than the 1975 no S dime. Other factors aside, it is often the case when there are only one or two known of an issue that the demand for it is limited, as it becomes essentially uncollectible. This is why Dr. Sheldon labeled such coins in the early date large cent series as non-collectible, and excluded them from his Sheldon variety numbers S1-S295 (1793-1814).
That's kind of the point. Nearly everything's desirable if price is no object.
@MasonG Theres a difference between desirable and obtainable. I desire to own many coins that i will never be able to afford.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
100 years from now, 90 no S takes over the played out VDB.
One for the type set and one for the date/mint mark set.
There are currently 6 1990 no S proofs available on eBay, and 66 09-S VDB graded 63 or above by the top 3.
Almost without exception, the raw ones listed are not the actual variety. This is one of those issues that any "uninformed" seller thinks or has convinced themselves they have.. in my opinion these are the types who should have their eBay accounts deleted because they either do no research before trying to sell something or they are outright trying to scam, both inexcusable.
Only one of the raw ones listed has a photo showing a legitimate no-S proof
Collector, occasional seller
I half agree. I kind of excuse the ignorant. They have themselves been fooled by the YouTube hype. They can likely be reformed.
In 100 years, who on this thread today will care?
It ain't over til the bagpipes are playing. 😉
They say the first person who will live to 150 years has already been born. They say a lot of things though...
Collector, occasional seller
I also had someone tell me that redheads will be extinct in 100 years due to recessive genes, but I have been seeing more redheads (including kids) than ever before.
I see 5 1990 no s cents, 4 are certified, one in proof set. Probably at least 100+ 1909 s vdb on eBay. Demand is much higher for 1909. David bowers said people were selling the s vdb by the rolls years ago.
?? Are we in first semester college philosophy 101. Makes close to zero sense
I’m rich price is no object. I’d like 20 pounds of thrashed war time nickels
What’s the indicator that One is different than the other “no s”
It's cameo.
This one doesn’t look Cameo
It's cameo.> @johnny010 said:
MS, not cameo proof. Is that the question?
That one is not a proof... or at least doesn't appear to be.
Agree
Statement
Also think it’s MS
I've loved @cladking and his wisdom about modern coinage for two decades. I used to buy 1990 no S sets many years ago raw. I found the "perfect" one and stopped. It graded 69 on the first shot. PCGS is not going to slab a 70, so I never submitted it again. Both 1909-s vdb and 1990 no S are fantastic coins to have in your collection.
Both are cool, but I'll take the 1909-S VDB all day long. 2019 was a great time to buy these, got a very nice AU-58 with CAC for less than $1K back then.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Started collecting Lincoln Cents in 1956.... Bought one of the "Discovery 1990 NO S PRoof set in 1990" and many more over the years. Researched extensively since then; read my article them in Sol Taylor's "Standard Guide to the Lincoln Cent" 4th Edition published in 1999.
Here we are, over 30 years later, and most proof sets have been searched for this rarity so I seriously doubt any more are to be found? Granted, there might be 1 or a couple, but not likely. For over 20 years, I worked at the largest Numismatic Auction house, and bought tens of thousands of proof sets from the public, and did not find 1 single 1990 no "S" Proof Set out of all of them! Additionally, the population reports from the major grading services are most likely inflated due to resubmissions?? Why would this be? Well, the main reason is neither PCGS nor NGC have to date graded a single Proof 70 for this variety, so there are folks out there that hope/Wish to be the first!!
I've already shown my hand, but will close with my thoughts that the 1909-S-VDB is neither rare nor scarce... Pick up the phone and you can buy any number of them is just about any grade/Color... The 1990 No "S" proof cent is a cool coin period!!!
Virtually no one (other than some eBay sellers) think the 1909-S VDB is rare. What it is is the coin hundreds of thousands of collectors spent so many hours searching through change and rolls of coins to find, to fill the hole in that Whitman folder. The 1990 No "S" proof? How many people have dreamed of finding one except for being able to sell it and buy the 1909-S VDB they always wanted?
JMO, YMMV
Yep! I searched for many, many years and never found one... Had to buy it years later...
There are a number of Lincoln cent varieties that are rarer than the 1909SVDB (other DDs, wide/narrow AM). Not sure why we're obsessing over the 1990 S-less on this thread.
The 09SVDB is in a different class. It really isn't a direct comparison. Each individual can decide for themselves what to spend their coin dollars on. The audiences for each one aren't really the same.
If I had a 1990 no S proof I would sell it to buy a 1909 S VDB
My current registry sets:
20th Century Type Set
Virtual DANSCO 7070
Slabbed IHC set - Missing the Anacs Slabbed coins
The proof 1960 large over small date cent has a 1/3 smaller PCGS population than the proof 1990 no “S” cent, yet sells at only about 1/10 of its price. Which variety is the better value?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I opted for the 1909 s vdb over 1990 no s proof
Pcgs price guide is $5000
Got it for $3900, through GC, week after Christmas
Maybe some people didn’t want to spend anymore money after the holidays
I think I got a good deal
Ms64 RD