Is Kelce better than Gronk?

doubledragon

I was surprised to wake up to find this quote from Skip Bayless on my Twitter feed:

"Travis Kelce has become the greatest route-running, pass-catching tight end ever - yes, beyond even Gronk. Mahomes is a lucky young man."

doubledragon

Hmm, his cards seem to be selling like hotcakes.

thisistheshow

There will be people who might rate sone of the older TEs higher, but of the modern TEs (at a minimum) he is the best complete TE. I think he's the best, but as a Pats fan I'm biased. No other TE combined his production with his blocking. Some people don't care about the blocking aspect, and might rank Kelce higher. But with Gronk on the field, anything was possible.

The statement by Bayless doesn't address blocking, and regardless is a statement by Bayless (making it invalid). Lol

doubledragon

Travis Kelce's 4 TD game on Monday night is what set this whole debate off, I heard it was like a barfight on Twitter. Here is what Shannon Sharpe said about this:

Right now, and I've said this before, and I don't have any problem saying this, I believe that Gronk (Rob Gronkowski) is the greatest tight end to have ever played. But the thing that Kelce is going to have is longevity and his numbers are going to dwarf his. Now if he can get a Super Bowl — and that's why I give [it to] Gronk, because Gronk was so dominant — Kelce is equally as dominant, but those four Super Bowls. That's the difference-maker right now.

If he can get another Super Bowl or two, it's going to be hard for me to put someone in front of him. He's not the greatest currently but I believe when his career is done and he walks away, [he will be] because I believe he still has another two or three years at least in his prime and he's playing with (Patrick) Mahomes.

craig44

My completely biased view is, give me Gronk. definitely a bigger game changer and red zone threat. significantly more TD. better y/c and better blocker. really a game-changing blocker for a TE. It was almost like having an extra OL when he stayed in to block.

Had he been less difficult to bring down, I think he would have been hurt less. he missed a lot of time from injury and played many games at less than 100%. I dont resort to the eye test very often, but Gronk was a monster on the Gridiron. often took 2-5 defenders to literally drag him down. Kelce seems to drop like a WR when he is tackled.

Last, before this season, I dont remember of Kelce being the number 1 receiving threat on a team. He had the luxury of having Hill take up double or triple coverage.

craig44

To add, Gronk is the all-time greatest at spiking TD's. Kelce cant hold a candle to Gronk when it comes to that.

perkdog

Gronk is a better blocker, Kelce is a better route runner and pass catcher

It depends what your looking for in your TE in regards to your offensive scheme.

Run heavy I'd take Gronk
Pass heavy I'd take Kelce

If I'm forced to make a choice I'm taking Gronk

Darin

The quote was "greatest route running, pass catching tight end ever".

The Chiefs have had two of those better than Gronk, Tony Gonzalez and Travis Kelce.

perkdog

@Darin said:
The quote was "greatest route running, pass catching tight end ever".

The Chiefs have had two of those better than Gronk, Tony Gonzalez and Travis Kelce.

Your pick

Gonzalez or Kelce?

thisistheshow

@Darin said:
The quote was "greatest route running, pass catching tight end ever".

The Chiefs have had two of those better than Gronk, Tony Gonzalez and Travis Kelce.

...
Yes, that's the quote, and Kelce is that. He is the greatest route running, pass catching "tight end". He is a "tight end". Gronk is the greatest tight end ever.

Darin

@Darin said:
The quote was "greatest route running, pass catching tight end ever".

The Chiefs have had two of those better than Gronk, Tony Gonzalez and Travis Kelce.

Your pick

Gonzalez or Kelce?

Gonzalez for now.

Darin

So.......... showtime.

It seems like since the Pats had the GOAT QB and the GOAT tight end they would have
hooked up for a lot more receptions than Gronk ended up with, a very pedestrian 621.
Guess he was busy blocking for that legendary Patriot running game all those years.

thisistheshow

@Darin said:
So.......... showtime.

It seems like since the Pats had the GOAT QB and the GOAT tight end they would have
hooked up for a lot more receptions than Gronk ended up with, a very pedestrian 621.
Guess he was busy blocking for that legendary Patriot running game all those years.

....
My argument for Gronkowski is that no one did it better at the TE position. But we know that his career was riddled with time missed due to injury. Kelce has him beat all day when it comes to availability, and is also compiling stats at an unprecedented pace.

But for sure the Pats running game has had many underrated years. Thanks for noticing! 😎

craig44

how many years has Kelce been option number 1? this year, but i am pretty sure he was a number 2 for his other seasons?

That has to weigh in on both targets and receptions for both players. Years of Hill taking doubles had to open things up for Kelce. There were many times Gronk got the Moss treatment and ended up doubled and more of a decoy opening things up for the 2 and 3 receivers.

galaxy27

Kelce just turned 33 but doesn't look anywhere close to being done

let's revisit when he hangs them up

thisistheshow

@galaxy27 said:
Kelce just turned 33 but doesn't look anywhere close to being done

let's revisit when he hangs them up

....
IMO, there will be nothing to revisit. There is no way for Kelce to be the better tight end. He plays like a wide receiver. Gronk was an absolute beast offensively. Defenses needed to punish him with multiple players to bring him down. And no one was blocking better than Gronk. That's the end of the story. If someone wants to debate that someone else os the greatest, ok. But it can't be Kelce. @darin you need to accept Kelce and his production for what it is. Amazing, top level, never been seen before. He isn't a tight end.

galaxy27

@thisistheshow said:

IMO, there will be nothing to revisit. There is no way for Kelce to be the better tight end.

spoken like a true, completely biased Gronk/Pats fan

craig44

@thisistheshow said:

@galaxy27 said:
Kelce just turned 33 but doesn't look anywhere close to being done

let's revisit when he hangs them up

....
IMO, there will be nothing to revisit. There is no way for Kelce to be the better tight end. He plays like a wide receiver. Gronk was an absolute beast offensively. Defenses needed to punish him with multiple players to bring him down. And no one was blocking better than Gronk. That's the end of the story. If someone wants to debate that someone else os the greatest, ok. But it can't be Kelce. @darin you need to accept Kelce and his production for what it is. Amazing, top level, never been seen before. He isn't a tight end.

As a completely biased Gronk fan, I couldnt agree more. you put into words what i have been thinking about for this topic. Kelce is like a great big giant WR. He even takes tackles like a much smaller man. He seldom takes big hits, he gets down instead of working for extra yardage.

fergie23

Gronk had the biggest catch radius of any player I have ever seen. Gronk is the superior TE, but Kelce is a better WR.

For the original question the answer is Kelce, the best pass-catching TE is Gonzalez (for now, but Kelce could catch him if he spends 5 more years with Mahomes).

Robb

Darin

Craig that's the second time you've knocked Kelce by saying he is easy to tackle.

So just for you............. Kelce does not go down easy on first contact, he is actually a tough runner
after the catch. I've seen him break many hard tackles and go for extra yardage.
I don't know what his yards after catch or yards after contact are but I'm guessing pretty good.
You should be asking yourself if Gronk is such a big, tough guy why isn't he still playing?
Kelce and Gronk are the same age. One is retired and one is in his prime.
Kelce has missed two games in his entire career. I believe Tony Gonzalez missed only two games.
Gronk only got tackled 621 times, sounds like he should have taken off the dress and played some football(thanks Aikman)
Kelce has been tackled 700 plus times on his way to over 1,000 and like the energizer bunny still going strong.
So was Gronk made of glass or what?
For now Gonzalez is the greatest TE ever. Without looking it up I would guess Tony probably played in almost
twice as many games as Gronk. So no way an injury prone part time TE is better than Gonzalez.

craig44

@Darin said:
Craig that's the second time you've knocked Kelce by saying he is easy to tackle.

So just for you............. Kelce does not go down easy on first contact, he is actually a tough runner
after the catch. I've seen him break many hard tackles and go for extra yardage.
I don't know what his yards after catch or yards after contact are but I'm guessing pretty good.
You should be asking yourself if Gronk is such a big, tough guy why isn't he still playing?
Kelce and Gronk are the same age. One is retired and one is in his prime.
Kelce has missed two games in his entire career. I believe Tony Gonzalez missed only two games.
Gronk only got tackled 621 times, sounds like he should have taken off the dress and played some football(thanks Aikman)
Kelce has been tackled 700 plus times on his way to over 1,000 and like the energizer bunny still going strong.
So was Gronk made of glass or what?
For now Gonzalez is the greatest TE ever. Without looking it up I would guess Tony probably played in almost
twice as many games as Gronk. So no way an injury prone part time TE is better than Gonzalez.

I dont know how many pats games you were able to see, but I have never in 40 years of watching football seen a single player who was more difficult to get on the ground than Gronk. That physicality is the reason he missed so many games. he very seldom went down on first contact. when that happened, it was when a defender grabbed a foot and tripped him. the first one or two defenders would generally slow gronk down and the third (or 4th) defender in could line him up and really tee off on him. that is not what i see when i watch kelce. yes, kelce has been remarkably durable, but he does not take the beating gronk did. he just goes down.

that is how i see it.

Darin

@craig44 said:

@Darin said:
Craig that's the second time you've knocked Kelce by saying he is easy to tackle.

So just for you............. Kelce does not go down easy on first contact, he is actually a tough runner
after the catch. I've seen him break many hard tackles and go for extra yardage.
I don't know what his yards after catch or yards after contact are but I'm guessing pretty good.
You should be asking yourself if Gronk is such a big, tough guy why isn't he still playing?
Kelce and Gronk are the same age. One is retired and one is in his prime.
Kelce has missed two games in his entire career. I believe Tony Gonzalez missed only two games.
Gronk only got tackled 621 times, sounds like he should have taken off the dress and played some football(thanks Aikman)
Kelce has been tackled 700 plus times on his way to over 1,000 and like the energizer bunny still going strong.
So was Gronk made of glass or what?
For now Gonzalez is the greatest TE ever. Without looking it up I would guess Tony probably played in almost
twice as many games as Gronk. So no way an injury prone part time TE is better than Gonzalez.

I dont know how many pats games you were able to see, but I have never in 40 years of watching football seen a single player who was more difficult to get on the ground than Gronk. That physicality is the reason he missed so many games. he very seldom went down on first contact. when that happened, it was when a defender grabbed a foot and tripped him. the first one or two defenders would generally slow gronk down and the third (or 4th) defender in could line him up and really tee off on him. that is not what i see when i watch kelce. yes, kelce has been remarkably durable, but he does not take the beating gronk did. he just goes down.

that is how i see it.

Looks like 2018 is the first year they started keeping stats on yards after catch but Kelce is
clearly ahead of Gronk in that category.
I'm sure Gronk's YAC were better earlier in his career than later in his careeer but Kelce's would be also.

erikthredd

@Darin said:

@craig44 said:

@Darin said:
Craig that's the second time you've knocked Kelce by saying he is easy to tackle.

So just for you............. Kelce does not go down easy on first contact, he is actually a tough runner
after the catch. I've seen him break many hard tackles and go for extra yardage.
I don't know what his yards after catch or yards after contact are but I'm guessing pretty good.
You should be asking yourself if Gronk is such a big, tough guy why isn't he still playing?
Kelce and Gronk are the same age. One is retired and one is in his prime.
Kelce has missed two games in his entire career. I believe Tony Gonzalez missed only two games.
Gronk only got tackled 621 times, sounds like he should have taken off the dress and played some football(thanks Aikman)
Kelce has been tackled 700 plus times on his way to over 1,000 and like the energizer bunny still going strong.
So was Gronk made of glass or what?
For now Gonzalez is the greatest TE ever. Without looking it up I would guess Tony probably played in almost
twice as many games as Gronk. So no way an injury prone part time TE is better than Gonzalez.

I dont know how many pats games you were able to see, but I have never in 40 years of watching football seen a single player who was more difficult to get on the ground than Gronk. That physicality is the reason he missed so many games. he very seldom went down on first contact. when that happened, it was when a defender grabbed a foot and tripped him. the first one or two defenders would generally slow gronk down and the third (or 4th) defender in could line him up and really tee off on him. that is not what i see when i watch kelce. yes, kelce has been remarkably durable, but he does not take the beating gronk did. he just goes down.

that is how i see it.

Looks like 2018 is the first year they started keeping stats on yards after catch but Kelce is

I just picked a random year before 2018 and they have YAC yards listed:
https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/receiving/2015/reg/all/receivingtouchdowns/desc

Looks like they started tracking YAC in 2002.

erikthredd

Its too bad that these statistical sites don't track Yards After Contact on receptions like some do on rushing carries.
Yards After Catch are a good stat to track but on many of those plays the receiver may catch the ball then never get touched on his w ay into the endzone.
Gaining Yards After Contact would be considerably tougher imo because the receiver is literally fighting for yards at that point.

2dueces

No