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CAC pricing Gold vs Green in the marketplace

AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

I understand the green pricing as a green CAC is considered strong for the grade. What I don’t get is how gold CAC is priced out. I see some saying add 1-1.5 grades to the coin and others say 2 grades.

What is the consensus? Does a single top pop on the CAC census add anything to the scenario?

Here’s an example. 1935 P Boone MS65 Gold CAC. Single top pop on CAC 1/0.
Is a minimum 66+ warranted or a 67 price wise?
https://youtube.com/shorts/2IIfwm1nCSY?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/6L-HOTCxQEw?feature=share

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    WeissWeiss Posts: 9,938 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The piece in question is a 1935-P Boone NGC MS65 v. generation 4 slab (1989-1992) green label with gold CAC, with natural but IMHO neutral tone.

    While it is the CAC gold pop top, NCG pop reports 534 in MS65, 195 in 66, 48 in 67, and even 5 in 68.

    Of those, there are 73 in MS66 with a green CAC, and 31 in MS67 with a green CAC. One green 68.

    So what's it worth? How would it be priced? There's a PCGS MS67 on eBay currently for $704. I'd be comfortable in that range.

    But I love older holders. And the gold CAC is a big plus to me. On the other hand, it's a bit esoteric. And not especially scarce assuming 66. And clearly 67s are available at an affordable price.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2022 8:59AM

    There's no meaningful price formula to use. (Among other things) it typically depends upon the coin, itself, as well as the value at the assigned grade vs. the value at the next grade up and at two grades up.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    fathomfathom Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    There's no meaningful price formula to use. It typically depends upon the coin, itself, as well as the value at the assigned grade vs. the value at the next grade up and at two grades up.

    A ton of variables, add: CAC pop, series, demand, eye appeal, gold sticker series completion potential.

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    WeissWeiss Posts: 9,938 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And the older slab. I'm biased in favor, and I know others are, too.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
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    AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2022 9:12AM

    Here’s where things get more interesting. It’s a consecutive serial PDS set..

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    CommemDudeCommemDude Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The PDS sets, and I own lots of them, are pretty hard to sell when two coins are 64 and one is likely 66. Collectors would prefer 3 MS64s , as they dont want to pay up for the higher graded odd- man- out in a PDS set

    As far as the gold sticker, I think you'll need a lot of blind faith to buy a coin thinking it automatically undergraded by 2 full points unless you're a professional grader who knows for certain that it is.

    I have an OGH PQ Pan Pac MS66 that got a gold sticker, and if anyone out there thinks that makes it an MS68, Im happy to sell it immediately.

    Dr Mikey
    Commems and Early Type
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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AlanSki said:
    Here’s where things get more interesting. It’s a consecutive serial PDS set..

    In the case of the D and S-mint pieces, the spreads between the prices for the assigned grades and (even) two points higher are quite small.
    1935-D: There's a $120 difference in CDN between MS64 and MS66.
    1935-S: There's a $55 difference in CDN between MS64 and MS66.
    The 1935 has a $430 spread in CDN between MS65 and MS67.

    This set is a good example of what I was talking about when I previously posted "(Among other things) it typically depends upon the coin, itself, as well as the value at the assigned grade vs. the value at the next grade up and at two grades up."

    Even if the gold stickers result in prices that correspond to two grades higher, there's not a whole lot of difference in value. Additionally, the coins don't look particularly colorful and the consecutive numbering would probably make a bigger difference if the grades were the same for each coin.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    There's no meaningful price formula to use. (Among other things) it typically depends upon the coin, itself, as well as the value at the assigned grade vs. the value at the next grade up and at two grades up.

    The sticker itself can also have value. Some people want a gold CAC collection and, for some coins, the sticker is hard to find

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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,773 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The right combination of sticker and plastic can render the coin and its grade irrelevant.

    The Boone PDS set is OK. It's neat they look to be an original set, but the toning is neutral, and as Mark said, there is almost no spread between a 64 and a 66. The two 64s would be a drag on the trio including the 65 with gold CAC. When pricing the coins, it seems a widespread practice is to price gold CAC coins at pop top prices and hope for someone to come along and just offer you normal stupid money.

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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,779 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2022 2:35PM

    I would say a formula is elusive and highly subjective for gold CAC. What grade it would receive if sent in for an upgrade is a mystery. What if it doesn’t upgrade? Plus if one doesn’t like the coin anyway (eye appeal issue, ugly dark toning) big deal so what?

    Certainly people will bid up gold CAC whether thrill of owning one or rolling dice for some estimated profit. Not my game.

    As far as the Boone set above it’s a matter of negotiation. Starting point would be CAC CPG (grade on holder) then some negotiated tack on to the CAC gold one based on its upgrade potential. But auction who knows how many in bid war.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭



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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    CAC helps at higher grades as in starting at 66+ especially with color. Through formulas out the window as it all boils down to the look of the commem with color and how badly two or more collectors want it. The venue of sale is also a significant factor. It is difficult to replicate results.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,779 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2022 2:34PM

    I really like the Texas halves. I can see why they got CAC gold. Yes if 2 people get in a bid war then sky the limit.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2022 2:32PM


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    AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭



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    DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Regarding the three 1935 Boones - I like 1935-Ds. But, in this case, are we collecting coins or are we collecting stickers?

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:
    Regarding the three 1935 Boones - I like 1935-Ds. But, in this case, are we collecting coins or are we collecting stickers?

    Both

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    Wahoo554Wahoo554 Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck said:
    Wasn't there a collector who stepped up 14 years ago to buy all gold stickers at any asking price... All the dealers fed him hundreds of such coins and he ended up taking a major hit at auction?

    Was it the SPQR collection? Funny thing is he probably would have made a big profit if he held out and sold in this market. Gold CAC pricing has become nuts in the series I focus a lot of attention on (US gold). I’ve seen common date half eagles sell for huge premiums because of the gold sticker that would not have been the case as recently as 2020. I am not talking about examples with special eye appeal, but just nice coins that happen to be undergraded.

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    AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:
    Regarding the three 1935 Boones - I like 1935-Ds. But, in this case, are we collecting coins or are we collecting stickers?

    I didn’t buy them stickered. I subbed them to CAC and that’s how they came back.

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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,779 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2022 6:13AM

    Yes - Making one’s own CAC (submission) seems like the way to go.

    The CAC thing can be a hobby within a hobby. A submitter can really do well especially if get gold.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AlanSki said:

    @DisneyFan said:
    Regarding the three 1935 Boones - I like 1935-Ds. But, in this case, are we collecting coins or are we collecting stickers?

    I didn’t buy them stickered. I subbed them to CAC and that’s how they came back.

    Congratulations for having such a great eye for under graded coins. SELL! And find more great coins for CAC.

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    AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    @AlanSki said:

    @DisneyFan said:
    Regarding the three 1935 Boones - I like 1935-Ds. But, in this case, are we collecting coins or are we collecting stickers?

    I didn’t buy them stickered. I subbed them to CAC and that’s how they came back.

    Congratulations for having such a great eye for under graded coins. SELL! And find more great coins for CAC.

    My father was the purchaser in the early to mid 90’s on them back when some feel grades were a bit more strict.

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    DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 90's were heady times. I hope he is not too underwater. I'm seeing some beautiful coins, though.

    I started in the early 2000's thinking there were some good values and still have some significant losses.

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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AlanSki said:

    @DisneyFan said:

    @AlanSki said:

    @DisneyFan said:
    Regarding the three 1935 Boones - I like 1935-Ds. But, in this case, are we collecting coins or are we collecting stickers?

    I didn’t buy them stickered. I subbed them to CAC and that’s how they came back.

    Congratulations for having such a great eye for under graded coins. SELL! And find more great coins for CAC.

    My father was the purchaser in the early to mid 90’s on them back when some feel grades were a bit more strict.

    Great story, great coins. Our fathers have done their very best, many have left us their wisdom and all that they possibly could, their love lives on in the next generation.

    The fact that you got so many gold stickers speaks to a truly discriminating eye. There is a high market out there, may be with GC auctions or high end company willing to buy at a big premium.

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    AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:
    The 90's were heady times. I hope he is not too underwater. I'm seeing some beautiful coins, though.

    I started in the early 2000's thinking there were some good values and still have some significant losses.

    Some have been losses while others with great toning have made profits. It’s evening out in the long run.

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    AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @AlanSki said:
    Here’s where things get more interesting. It’s a consecutive serial PDS set..

    In the case of the D and S-mint pieces, the spreads between the prices for the assigned grades and (even) two points higher are quite small.
    1935-D: There's a $120 difference in CDN between MS64 and MS66.
    1935-S: There's a $55 difference in CDN between MS64 and MS66.
    The 1935 has a $430 spread in CDN between MS65 and MS67.

    This set is a good example of what I was talking about when I previously posted "(Among other things) it typically depends upon the coin, itself, as well as the value at the assigned grade vs. the value at the next grade up and at two grades up."

    Even if the gold stickers result in prices that correspond to two grades higher, there's not a whole lot of difference in value. Additionally, the coins don't look particularly colorful and the consecutive numbering would probably make a bigger difference if the grades were the same for each coin.

    It ended up sold at $1350

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    124Spider124Spider Posts: 860 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2022 12:00PM

    Just my opinion on this very subjective/emotion-tied subject:

    I don't own any gold-stickered coins, and likely never will; I would not pay as much for a gold-stickered coin as I would pay for a non-stickered coin a grade higher (assuming both coins are without problems, and I like both equally much).

    I do have a lot of green-stickered coins. I value the green sticker quite a bit, but I would not pay as much for a green-stickered PCGS or NGC coin of a certain grade as I would pay for a coin without problems a grade higher, also graded by PCGS or NGC. Well, except that I do particularly like green-stickered AU58 coins, and probably would pay more for a green-stickered AU58 than for a non-stickered MS60.

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