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Another Capped Bust Question

lermishlermish Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

I am not a die state/minor variety fanatic but I was comparing this 1831 25c Large Letters to various Trueviews. It looks there is some variance in the 1 placement but this one seems to be placed higher than just about all of them publicly viewable.

What might cause this variance? Is it a minor variety of note or within the normal range of striking differences?

Thanks!



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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    since the large letters is a reverse variety (regardless of the obverse) and as such the obverse could have 10 different date positions as the large letter designation is a (no offense) generic one compared to say browning 3 or 6 etc. referencing the reverse on coins dated 1831 although the reverse could be used on other dates. idk off the top of my head.

    i'm pretty sure about the only time the tpgs will care about exact marriages will be when the paid attribution service is used. (there may be a few exceptions, with this not being one of them)

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    lermishlermish Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:
    since the large letters is a reverse variety (regardless of the obverse) and as such the obverse could have 10 different date positions as the large letter designation is a (no offense) generic one compared to say browning 3 or 6 etc. referencing the reverse on coins dated 1831 although the reverse could be used on other dates. idk off the top of my head.

    i'm pretty sure about the only time the tpgs will care about exact marriages will be when the paid attribution service is used. (there may be a few exceptions, with this not being one of them)

    No offense taken, it's for my type set so generic is name of the game:)

    So the date placement is just a normal happenstance of one of the 10 die marriages? Perfectly reasonable answer if a little boring ;)

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lermish said:
    So the date placement is just a normal happenstance of one of the 10 die marriages? Perfectly reasonable answer if a little boring ;)

    i'm not saying there are 10 but just that there can be many with such generic attributions and thus quite a wide range of variance for the opposite side of the coin feature being designated.

    to put it simply, the date placement is irrelevant in this instance and you may find more date positions with this reverse attribution. :)

    you could have the same situation reversed where you have an obverse feature being attributed but there may be several (obvious) different reverses that qualify for the generic attribution.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    lermishlermish Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @lermish said:
    So the date placement is just a normal happenstance of one of the 10 die marriages? Perfectly reasonable answer if a little boring ;)

    i'm not saying there are 10 but just that there can be many with such generic attributions and thus quite a wide range of variance for the opposite side of the coin feature being designated.

    to put it simply, the date placement is irrelevant in this instance and you may find more date positions with this reverse attribution. :)

    you could have the same situation reversed where you have an obverse feature being attributed but there may be several (obvious) different reverses that qualify for the generic attribution.

    I'm pretty sure I got the answer I was looking for (date placement is irrelevant) but I may have not asked the question artfully.

    I understand the current designation is for the reverse and the date placement on the obverse has no relevance to that designation. I just listed the "Large Letters" in the spirit of giving the full name of the coin - probably wasn't necessary as that is obvious even to me. But, independent of the reverse, does the date placement have any particular noteworthiness (answer=no).

    Thanks as always, I appreciate the wisdom!

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2022 2:49PM

    @lermish said:
    But, independent of the reverse, does the date placement have any particular noteworthiness (answer=no).

    Thanks as always, I appreciate the wisdom!

    yw.

    the date placement is meaningless to the reverse attribution but it could be important based on the scarcity of the marriage for each obverse die aside from the tpg designation. one could be r1, r3, r7, discovery etc. there are MANY situations where people (including myself) have purchased generic attribution holders like this because it contained a scarcer/neater etc diagnostic on the opposite side of the coin from the holder designation. :) - some people think it is unwise to fork out the attribution fee most of the time and mine and others wallets/collections have greatly benefited from this line of thinking. :) - to be fair, most of time, it really doesn't though.

    so your efforts to note the difference(s) aren't unimportant by any means.

    discussing these obverse differences is fun and can be important or just enjoyable, so we can see where it goes from here!

    edited again to add CF link to multiple LL images: LINK

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    fwiw, i just perused all the images from the link above this post and i'd say just a quick-glace through, that there are 2 obverses imaged. this is w/o checking secondary pups. the other is the 2nd 1 more level (lower) to the 3. most have that recutting/repunching on the 2nd 1. i thought there may be 3 obverses from the quick glace but a quick comparison between showed them to be the lower/level 1 with the 3.

    yours has a nice look. ALMOST a circ-cam and getting one in a straight-graded holder seems to be a bit of an accomplishment. they are out there for sure but i've seen FAAAAAR more non-gradable capped 25c than not.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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