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1567 Scotland Ryal surprised me!

DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 22, 2022 4:50PM in World & Ancient Coins Forum

For 20 years I have been working on a PCGS set of Scotland 30-shillings Ryals (two types: the Mary series made from 1565-67, and the James 6th series made from 1567-71, both of which were also made in 20- and 10-shillings versions). In that time, this is the first upgrade I’ve acquired – an NGC VF25 that, after it goes in for crossover, will replace my PCGS F12 that started this madness.

I got a huge surprise when the new coin arrived: it turned out to be a flip-over double strike that clearly shows lettering on each side that belongs on the opposite side. I’m guessing the coiner removed the coin (presumably to inspect the first strike), and then put it back onto the hammer anvil die for another blow – except it was upside down!

Here’s a photo of what the sword & date side is supposed to look like. Notice that there are 17 letters around the rim:

Now here’s a photo of my new VF25. Notice that it has, depending upon how many fragments you think there are to count, 27 letters. (That’s where I stopped, but there could be more). Inside the inner ring of beads it also has details of the shield from the opposite side:

Here’s a photo of what the shield side is supposed to look like. Notice that it has 27 letters around the rim, plus the number 6 at the 3 o’clock position:

Now here’s a photo of my new VF25. I’m pretty sure I can count 31 letters and fragments, plus the number 6, but I suspect there are more that are obscured by dead-on overstriking.

I have no idea how common this striking error is on hammered coins in general, but this is the first one I have seen on a Scotland Ryal. In addition to the tremendous history and character this coin has to begin with, this error makes it even more interesting and beautiful to me.

When in doubt, don't.

Comments

  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is much more common with smaller coins like pennies etc. I have a penny of Henry III that was struck in Lincoln England during the 13th century that stuck to the obverse die and got another blow from the moneyer so that the reverse is double struck.

    The unusual thing about the Ryal is that it is a so called coin of the realm - someone was pretty careless otherwise it would have gotten melted into new coinage in the next silver melting.

    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's an awesome one! I'd guess it's likely an intentional overstriking because the previous coin had some sort of strike issues. Definitely neat to see what we would call in milled coins a flip over double strike.

  • worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭

    Great addition! I've enjoyed seeing your Ryal threads over the years.

  • 1960NYGiants1960NYGiants Posts: 3,439 ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting coin. If PCGS crosses it as an error coin, I believe that you would not be able to add it to your set. I once had a high grade Canadian $1 with a strike thru that I could not add to my Registry Set. You may want to check with Cust. Service before submitting it.

    Gene

    Life member #369 of the Royal Canadian Numismatic Association
    Member of Canadian Association of Token Collectors

    Collector of:
    Canadian coins and pre-confederation tokens
    Darkside proof/mint sets dated 1960
    My Ebay
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1960NYGiants said:
    Interesting coin. If PCGS crosses it as an error coin, I believe that you would not be able to add it to your set. I once had a high grade Canadian $1 with a strike thru that I could not add to my Registry Set. You may want to check with Cust. Service before submitting it.

    Thank you very much for your words of caution Gene! I would most definitely not want an error designation to prevent it from going into my set.

    When in doubt, don't.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,306 ✭✭✭✭✭

    thats way cool to see, i like

  • deepblue30deepblue30 Posts: 70 ✭✭✭

    Thank you for sharing an interesting coin.

  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2022 6:08AM

    Mailed the coin to PCGS Aug. 28.
    It hit the "grading" status stage today. :)

    When in doubt, don't.
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2022 6:10AM

    It took 5 weeks, but the status updated today to now show the coin's description (1567 Ryal) and the country (Scotland).

    When in doubt, don't.
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It moved to "Encapsulation" today! :)<3

    When in doubt, don't.
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Finally went to Quality Check yesterday... after two months in Encapsulation. :#

    When in doubt, don't.
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DennisH said:
    Finally went to Quality Check yesterday... after two months in Encapsulation. :#

    Plot twist - comes back in an unsealed holder :)

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,659 ✭✭✭✭✭

    congrats

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,558 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Awesome coin and it has the perfect look!

  • SimonWSimonW Posts: 555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That’s REALLY cool!

    I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.

  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2023 9:06AM

    My coin made the summary page of population and auction history for PCGS coin #166859 ! --

    When in doubt, don't.
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