First time PSA grades came back, bizarre results

jkpilot

Sent off 18 basketball cards , mainly 89 and 90 fleer which had a few strange grades. I sent off 4 #21 1989 jordans. got two 9s, one 8 and one 5. The weird thing is the 5 looks the best visually of all, visibly no issues w corners. Edges have a bit of that red ink bleed on both the 9 and the 5 , dont see any surface stains , residue etc. Let me know what Im missing for next time. Im still a rookie at this grading game!! Eye appeal wise the 5 looks superior to me, but maybe im wrong.

JoeBanzai

Most likely a very small "wrinkle" somewhere on the 5.

Nice cards!

detroitfan2

Very nice cards, is it possible there is a wax stain on the reverse of the 5? There seems to be something going on above and near the word "KNOW" on the back, but maybe it's a shadow.

Also, what are you using for a scanner, those came out very nice?

jkpilot

@detroitfan2 said:
Very nice cards, is it possible there is a wax stain on the reverse of the 5? There seems to be something going on above and near the word "KNOW" on the back, but maybe it's a shadow.

Also, what are you using for a scanner, those came out very nice?

yes there might be some wax residue (cant confirm) but even so how could it knock that beauty down to a 5?? PSA did the scans , if you add them to your inventory the pics also show up.

miwlvrn

The edge wear on the top edge of the PSA 5 on the back side near the card number stands out as a problem; maybe the damage is peeling into the surface of the card for more paper loss too?

jkpilot

@miwlvrn said:
The edge wear on the top edge of the PSA 5 on the back side near the card number stands out as a problem; maybe the damage is peeling into the surface of the card for more paper loss too?

yea I did notice the slight edge issue on the back top left side, the front looking at it doesnt appear to have any issue coming over. I think the wax stain is def there on the back , but doubt that would knock off more then 1/2 pts.

Batpig

A 5 means there’s almost certainly a wrinkle you missed. It happens. Sometimes they’re very hard to see unless the card is held at a certain angle.

jkpilot

@Batpig said:
A 5 means there’s almost certainly a wrinkle you missed. It happens. Sometimes they’re very hard to see unless the card is held at a certain angle.

thanks for the info! yes probably then there is something there maybe only under extra lighting thats visable. such a shame, because eye appeal wise maybe the best card of the bunch.

MarshallFaulk28

The eye appeal looks better to me on the 5. I like how the red seems to pop better on the front. The centering looks better as well (both vertical and horizontal). I guess eye appeal isn't as important as minor defects that only the James Webb space telescope can see. 🤷🏼‍♂️

jkpilot

@MarshallFaulk28 said:
The eye appeal looks better to me on the 5. I like how the red seems to pop better on the front. The centering looks better as well (both vertical and horizontal). I guess eye appeal isn't as important as minor defects that only the James Webb space telescope can see. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Honestly Im really baffled, I might crack the 5 open to look at it closer and see if I can find the 'major' issue. card is worth $15 as a 5 anyways....

coinspacks

Wrinkle on the red section?

MarshallFaulk28

@jkpilot said:

@MarshallFaulk28 said:
The eye appeal looks better to me on the 5. I like how the red seems to pop better on the front. The centering looks better as well (both vertical and horizontal). I guess eye appeal isn't as important as minor defects that only the James Webb space telescope can see. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Honestly Im really baffled, I might crack the 5 open to look at it closer and see if I can find the 'major' issue. card is worth $15 as a 5 anyways....

Not a bad idea actually. Like you said, not really doing any harm to the value of the card at this point. If anything, it's probably worth more and looks nicer raw rather seeing that distracting "5" at the top!

53BKid

Comparing the top edges, the white of the 5 appears to have a considerable amount of red backing bleeding through onto the front.

If you look carefully at the reverse top edge, you'll see a material difference in edge wear between the 5 and the 9.

Hard to tell more than that from the scans.

StamkosFan

On the back of the PSA 5 ....in between Printed In the U.S.A. and Free Throws %.

secretstash

Fwiw, I've had a vintage PSA 5 become a PSA 8.5 and several MINSIZERQ miraculously holder as a PSA 9/10 on a second or third submission on several occasions.

Cakes

@secretstash said:
Fwiw, I've had a vintage PSA 5 become a PSA 8.5 and several MINSIZERQ miraculously holder as a PSA 9/10 on a second or third submission on several occasions.

I have too in the past but has anyone had similar results in the last two? It's a different grading world.

jkpilot

@secretstash said:
Fwiw, I've had a vintage PSA 5 become a PSA 8.5 and several MINSIZERQ miraculously holder as a PSA 9/10 on a second or third submission on several occasions.

Im gonna crack it open, nothing to lose. will review it for myself under light and see if I see the score killer or not. IF there is nothing there, ill send it back during the next econ special. If I find the problem, oh well no big deal its a worth the same raw or as a PSA 5. the card is my best looking 89 jordan by far....

StamkosFan

Look at this closely when you crack it. On the back and I circled it red. Looks like a crimp/wrinkle/fingernail-like impression.

jkpilot

@StamkosFan said:
Look at this closely when you crack it. On the back and I circled it red. Looks like a crimp/wrinkle/fingernail-like impression.

I looked at that spot and I think you are onto something but in person it appears to be wax string. I think this card was found in the back of one of the packs. but my question to the experts for next time.... wax stains can mark u down from lets say a 9 to a 5 ?? I will open it this week and try to clean that off and send it back in!

beachbumcollecting

if it's wax it is a 5, when they went to not using qualifiers, I have found wax and miscut backs are getting 5's. in the past it definitely meant a wrinkle or surface impression but now there are multiple options in the no qualifier world. nice card

jkpilot

@beachbumcollecting said:
if it's wax it is a 5, when they went to not using qualifiers, I have found wax and miscut backs are getting 5's. in the past it definitely meant a wrinkle or surface impression but now there are multiple options in the no qualifier world. nice card

gonna use this as a learning event and remove all wax next time. I didnt expect it to get banged that hard , especially on the back.

Cakes

@jkpilot said:

@beachbumcollecting said:
if it's wax it is a 5, when they went to not using qualifiers, I have found wax and miscut backs are getting 5's. in the past it definitely meant a wrinkle or surface impression but now there are multiple options in the no qualifier world. nice card

gonna use this as a learning event and remove all wax next time. I didnt expect it to get banged that hard , especially on the back.

How will you remove the wax, used pantyhose, microfiber, etc.?

jkpilot

@Cakes said:

@jkpilot said:

@beachbumcollecting said:
if it's wax it is a 5, when they went to not using qualifiers, I have found wax and miscut backs are getting 5's. in the past it definitely meant a wrinkle or surface impression but now there are multiple options in the no qualifier world. nice card

gonna use this as a learning event and remove all wax next time. I didnt expect it to get banged that hard , especially on the back.

How will you remove the wax, used pantyhose, microfiber, etc.?

any advice from anyone?

Bosox1976

Used dryer sheets are great for wax on the front. Wax on the back is near impossible

Cakes

@Bosox1976 said:
Used dryer sheets are great for wax on the front. Wax on the back is near impossible

Thanks Bo, that's how I recalled it.

What about gum stains? I have a gorgeous Marino rookie that has one on the back.

JoeBanzai

@Cakes said:

@Bosox1976 said:
Used dryer sheets are great for wax on the front. Wax on the back is near impossible

Thanks Bo, that's how I recalled it.

What about gum stains? I have a gorgeous Marino rookie that has one on the back.

Back stains are pretty much impossible to remove, since the back of the card has no glossy coating, wax and gum tend to "sink" into the cardstock.

There is a guy who claims to get stains out; "Gone With the Stain" is/was a company started by Dick Towle.

You could check that out. Here's a link to a discussion regarding his company and what they do.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=273078&page=2

thedutymon11

Good Day,

Way back in the day (2008-2010) I sent two Cards to Dick Towle to see about his results if anything could be detected. I don't remember what I was going to do with this info, but I was going to Have it! I bought two each 1933 Goudey Baseball Commons that PSA had graded Fair 1. The two Cards looked to be in at least MINT 9 condition due to Centering, Corners, ect.

When I popped them out of the Holders, the Cards had some sort of grit that was invisible but could be felt on the Surface of the front all over 100% of the Fronts of the Cards.

So I sent them to Mr. Towle and a few weeks later received them back and whatever had been on the surface was gone, the Cards didn't have any odor and just looked Even Better!

So in my next Sub I sent them in and lo and behold.......Fair 1 on both of them. Thus ended my grand experiment and I don't think I ever sent anything to him again!

I am sure Somehow, even back then, PSA knew of the History of these two cards!

YeeHaw!

Neil

jimq

Dick Towle did a card for me, I think it was a 52 Bowman Mantle that was on ebay almost free because it was taped across top and bottom. I bought it for PC but after Dick Towle worked on it I sent it PSA, it looked so nice. VG-EX4.
I think he died a couple years ago. Not sure if they're still active.

Estil

@JoeBanzai said:
Most likely a very small "wrinkle" somewhere on the 5.

Nice cards!

Yep; even the teeniest little crease/wrinkle drops it down to a 5 at most (even if the card is otherwise pretty much flawless). That's gotta be about the most disappointing thing that can happen in a submission (other than it getting rejected for grading of course)

jkpilot

@Estil said:

@JoeBanzai said:
Most likely a very small "wrinkle" somewhere on the 5.

Nice cards!

Yep; even the teeniest little crease/wrinkle drops it down to a 5 at most (even if the card is otherwise pretty much flawless). That's gotta be about the most disappointing thing that can happen in a submission (other than it getting rejected for grading of course)

soooo frustrating. Opened at least 10 boxes of 89 fleer basketball and out of 40 Jordan base cards only 1 had perfect centering and corners and it was this '5'. I do see the wax stain on the back now after the fact. for sure its a 10 if that wax isnt there. sad