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Anyone care to try to identify a dateless Draped Bust Large Cent?

jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I spent some time with my books and came up with an S-119, but I'm fairly new at this. I would appreciate any help with this. Trying to make this my new area and love it. Only wish I had started 20 years ago, when quality books and photos were not readily available, although having them is great. First pic is a sample of an S-119, the second photos are of the sellers pics and the third set of photos are inhand photos. Thank you.
Jim




When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain

Comments

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,543 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2022 5:25PM

    I don’t know what it is, Jim, but it’s not the S119. Look at the stems at the bottom of the wreath, and ES relative to the top of wreath.

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • WilliamFWilliamF Posts: 831 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think it is an S-119 and heres why, the first thing I noticed when comparing the 2 examples is that the stems on the reverse of the S-119 are significantly lower than the "dateless" one, I'm not the greatest with overlays but you can see where things don't line up, I placed the bow in the same spot on both coins and that shows how everything else lines up, I'll do a little more digging and see if I can come up with a more definite answer...

    ."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817

  • WilliamFWilliamF Posts: 831 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've been working at it for a while and the only thing I can definitively say is that it's not a 1796 or 97 based on the placement/spacing of the hair in relation to LIBERTY, I'm thinking it's a 1798 but I can't tell which one, I think it's too far gone for me personally, to be able to tell you for sure what it is...

    ."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,131 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks Greg and Will. I appreciate it and will continue to work on it in the coming days.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • TxCollectorTxCollector Posts: 441 ✭✭✭✭

    @WilliamF , what tool are you using to produce that overlay? That looks cool and extremely useful.

    Also, had to throw this out there but maybe we should ask the Neveroddoreven guy for his opinion :p

  • numismanumisma Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with @WilliamF that it is a 1798. The reverse is the Type of 1799 and a quick check of my Noyes reference leads me to believe that you have a 1798 S-165, which is an R.4 variety.

    I am 90% certain of this attribution, but if you can get higher resolution photos, I will check more closely.

    As for a few tips on how to narrow things down more quickly on your next dateless large cent attribution, start with the reverse. Look at the style of the berries, the layout of the fraction, and the location of the upper leaves to "ES" in STATES. That is for coins lacking any obvious die breaks or other die anomalies, which makes things much easier.

  • WilliamFWilliamF Posts: 831 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:
    @WilliamF , what tool are you using to produce that overlay? That looks cool and extremely useful.

    I'm using Lunapic, it's a free online photo editor with a surprising amount of options, what I did here was just take one of the images and make it about 45% transparent and then from there I moved it on top of the other image, it is very useful, it's also pretty fun :)

    ."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817

  • TxCollectorTxCollector Posts: 441 ✭✭✭✭

    @WilliamF said:

    @jeffas1974 said:
    @WilliamF , what tool are you using to produce that overlay? That looks cool and extremely useful.

    I'm using Lunapic, it's a free online photo editor with a surprising amount of options, what I did here was just take one of the images and make it about 45% transparent and then from there I moved it on top of the other image, it is very useful, it's also pretty fun :)

    Thanks @WilliamF! Appreciate the tip.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,131 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is a 1798 overlay of my dateless coin. I did the same as William and placed the bow knot on top of each other. Still not sure how to know it is exactly overlaid as I have not done this before.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • WilliamFWilliamF Posts: 831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2022 7:49AM

    @numisma said:
    I agree with @WilliamF that it is a 1798. The reverse is the Type of 1799 and a quick check of my Noyes reference leads me to believe that you have a 1798 S-165, which is an R.4 variety.

    I believe @numisma was spot on with the S-165 attribution, here is an overlay of your coin with a known S-165 and it matches up almost 100% (you can hardly even tell it's an overlay) the bits that don't quite match up is because one of the images is rotated EVER so slightly and so it changes a little bit once you get to the top right area of the coin.

    So I did another one with the S-165 and just moved the overlay up a little bit so you can see the devices of both coins and see that they match up all the way across the coin, thanks for the research project, it was fun :)

    ."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817

  • rokkyrokky Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭

    Thank you @WilliamF that is an excellent tool to have. I’m sure it will come in handy.

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