Fake NGC 1921 MS67 ON EBAY

joebb21

https://ebay.com/itm/284902565648?hash=item4255842710%3Ag%3AVyYAAOSw6x1i1sZb&LH_Auction=1

braddick

MFeld

“Fake” or genuine lower grade example?

IkesT

"The current offer is for the NGC-certified superb gemstones."

ajaan

Located in Suraburi. Not exactly the numismatic capital of Thailand.

FlyingAl

It looks like a genuine 63 in a fake 67 holder to these eyes.

Aotearoa

"Certificate no longer valid: Removed from holder"

LanceNewmanOCC

i hope it is, the holder/insert was starting to worry me the quality had finally became too good.

MFeld

@Aotearoa said:
"Certificate no longer valid: Removed from holder"

That’s odd - when I looked up the cert number, it showed:
“This item cannot be found. Please check that the NGC certification number was entered correctly. More help >”

justmenutty72

Someone bit at $521🤦🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️👎

Cranium_Basher73

Two port visits to Pattaya. Bangkok was only about halfway to Suraburi. Last was in March 95 for Cobra Gold exercises. Numismatics wasn't on our minds.

spyglassdesign

I always check the codes on graded ones, and raw coins I always have my reputable and reliable local dealer authenticate immediately upon delivery.

MFeld

@spyglassdesign said:
I always check the codes on graded ones, and raw coins I always have my reputable and reliable local dealer authenticate immediately upon delivery.

Unless there’s a good enough accompanying image, checking the cert number is far from adequate protection. There are many counterfeit coins in counterfeit holders, which include legitimate ID numbers on counterfeit grading labels.

TxCollector

@MFeld said:

@spyglassdesign said:
I always check the codes on graded ones, and raw coins I always have my reputable and reliable local dealer authenticate immediately upon delivery.

Unless there’s a good enough accompanying image, checking the cert number is far from adequate protection. There are many counterfeit coins in counterfeit holders, which include legitimate ID numbers on counterfeit grading labels.

@MFeld or anyone else, what is the lowest value coin that you’ve seen someone counterfeit? For a some of my recent eBay purchases there aren’t accompanying images to go along with the cert but if it’s the case where it’s not worth the effort to make slabbed fakes of say a large cent valued at $150 then that makes me feel better.

Thanks in advance.

Aotearoa

@MFeld said:

@Aotearoa said:
"Certificate no longer valid: Removed from holder"

That’s odd - when I looked up the cert number, it showed:
“This item cannot be found. Please check that the NGC certification number was entered correctly. More help >”

That is odd. I just tried it again with the same result as mentioned.

ifthevamzarockin

@jeffas1974 "what is the lowest value coin that you’ve seen someone counterfeit?"

I have seen common date Mercury dimes.

ifthevamzarockin

No holder, they were raw.

MFeld

@jeffas1974 said:

@MFeld said:

@spyglassdesign said:
I always check the codes on graded ones, and raw coins I always have my reputable and reliable local dealer authenticate immediately upon delivery.

Unless there’s a good enough accompanying image, checking the cert number is far from adequate protection. There are many counterfeit coins in counterfeit holders, which include legitimate ID numbers on counterfeit grading labels.

@MFeld or anyone else, what is the lowest value coin that you’ve seen someone counterfeit? For a some of my recent eBay purchases there aren’t accompanying images to go along with the cert but if it’s the case where it’s not worth the effort to make slabbed fakes of say a large cent valued at $150 then that makes me feel better.

Thanks in advance.

I don’t recall specifically the lowest value counterfeit coins I’ve seen in counterfeit holders, but would guess they were a minimum of mid to upper three figures.

thefinn

Reported.

burfle23

Lowest value in a genuine holder:

Was listed for $100.00.

burfle23

@IkesT said:
"The current offer is for the NGC-certified superb gemstones."

Did anyone record the seller's name?

IkesT

@burfle23 said:

@IkesT said:
"The current offer is for the NGC-certified superb gemstones."

Did anyone record the seller's name?

I'm sorry - I did not.

burfle23

Found the genuine coin sold by Heritage in 2016:

burfle23

Reverse image:

burfle23

@FlyingAl said:
It looks like a genuine 63 in a fake 67 holder to these eyes.

Bar code of the listed example on top; genuine example on the bottom:

Bar code isn't even close...

FlyingAl

@burfle23

I don't think my comment was quite clear - I think the coin is a genuine example of a 1921 Morgan that grades roughly 63, the holder is a counterfeit NGC example and reports a false grade of 67. Hope this clears up the confusion?

MFeld

@FlyingAl said:
@burfle23

I don't think my comment was quite clear - I think the coin is a genuine example of a 1921 Morgan that grades roughly 63, the holder is a counterfeit NGC example and reports a false grade of 67. Hope this clears up the confusion?

I also think that the eBay coin looks like a lower grade, genuine example and therefore that the thread title is inaccurate.

burfle23

@FlyingAl said:
@burfle23

I don't think my comment was quite clear - I think the coin is a genuine example of a 1921 Morgan that grades roughly 63, the holder is a counterfeit NGC example and reports a false grade of 67. Hope this clears up the confusion?

I totally agreed with your comment @FlyingAl ; holder is not nearly as convincing as some of the recent PCGS holders with lower grade genuine coins in them we have seen recently.