PCGS Authorized Dealer selling Proof coins in Top Pop PCGS MS Holders

commoncents05 · June 17, 2022 7:40AM

Found these on eBay. They are pretty clearly Proof coins and are mislabeled by PCGS. Being a PCGS Authorized Dealer, would PCGS reach out to them to fix their mistake?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144598102592?hash=item21aab7f240:g:jaoAAOSw0gNiP5qg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144567882516?hash=item21a8ead314:g:huoAAOSw-KtilBSF

-Paul

Aspie_Rocco · June 17, 2022 7:47AM

Yikes and Ouch. That will upset the population reports.

cameonut2011 · June 17, 2022 7:51AM

The dealer should do the right thing. It’s kind of sad that PCGS would need to reach out to them or that the dealer would need to be called out publicly to fix it.

@HeatherBoyd Can you help fix this?

fathom · June 17, 2022 8:00AM

Authorized dealer? Wow.

LanceNewmanOCC · June 17, 2022 8:02AM

barcode scans and cert page matches slab, fwiw so not an obvious mechanical error.

MFeld · June 17, 2022 8:13AM

Trying to sell PCGS coins with grades that are obvious mechanical errors and touting/pricing them as rarities, would almost certainly be in violation of an authorized dealer/PCGS agreement.

Herb_T · June 17, 2022 8:17AM

Did you call or try contacting them to ask? Seems that would be the place to start.

FlyingAl · June 17, 2022 8:18AM

@MFeld said:
Trying to sell PCGS coins with grades that are obvious mechanical errors and touting/pricing them as rarities, would almost certainly be in violation of an authorized dealer/PCGS agreement.

He's also clearly trying to hide the mirrors of the coins, which implies he knows what he's doing. That kind of lighting and angle will be about as good as it gets when you are doing this.

amwldcoin · June 17, 2022 8:28AM

LOL, I had a 42 War nickel awhile back that was a proof in an MS66 or 67 holder. I clearly stated it in the header and body of the listing. I had a guy message me and tell me I need to resubmit it because it was full steps and worth big bucks! I replied it's a proof! A few days later he bought it!

MFeld · June 17, 2022 8:30AM

@amwldcoin said:
LOL, I had a 42 War nickel awhile back that was a proof in a 66 or 67 holder. I clearly stated it in the header and body of the listing. I had a guy message me and tell me I need to resubmit it because it was full steps and worth big bucks! I replied it's a proof! A few days later he bought it!

What was the LOL for?

amwldcoin · June 17, 2022 8:32AM

@MFeld said:

@amwldcoin said:
LOL, I had a 42 War nickel awhile back that was a proof in a 66 or 67 holder. I clearly stated it in the header and body of the listing. I had a guy message me and tell me I need to resubmit it because it was full steps and worth big bucks! I replied it's a proof! A few days later he bought it!

What was the LOL for?

Pick, Pick! Because the guy bought it after I explained it was a proof...of course it was priced accordingly.

LanceNewmanOCC · June 17, 2022 8:44AM

@amwldcoin said:
LOL, I had a 42 War nickel awhile back that was a proof in an MS66 or 67 holder. I clearly stated it in the header and body of the listing. I had a guy message me and tell me I need to resubmit it because it was full steps and worth big bucks! I replied it's a proof! A few days later he bought it!

.
the amount of times i have to specifically tell people to carefully read the title, short description AND look at all the pictures BEFORE buying is astonishing to me. it can be a bit exhausting considering the wide array of various listing formats/styles, picture quality etc for buyers (i know being one of them) but imo, it is FAR less than getting something we don't want/doesn't work for our needs etc and have to go through the return process (and go through the annoyance of having to go looking again) and have to eat shipping/fees etc. or cause the seller to ,which can be very easily avoided by one taking their time.

i literally have gone to a nearly 100% policy asking a buyer before i ship an item if this is actually the thing they want/need and some reply snarkily that they know what they are doing, most never respond and when i don't ask, too many times i end up wishing i did. a couple people have fessed up they should have been more careful but a lot of good that does AFTER the fact. - mistakes will of course be made (i quickly admit if i made one to buyers if i did) but we as sellers have the most control because an item can't be shipped until WE are satisfied. that said, i'm talking non-numismatic items. as a rule, my numismatic transactions are LIGHT YEARS more simple with fewer problems/returns etc that any other business venture i've been in.

that is pretty funny/ironic the buyer would send messages like that, indicating they either made a mistake or really don't know what they are doing and for whatever reason end up buying the item. this journey of ours, let me tell you what!

ChrisH821 · June 17, 2022 9:05AM

Apparently the entire population for "MS69" 68-S Jeffersons were in that same submission. Looks like a large sub of proofs that had a group of mechanical errors in the middle.

ChrisH821 · June 17, 2022 9:31AM

@Aspie_Rocco said:
Yikes and Ouch. That will upset the population reports.

See above

commoncents05 · June 17, 2022 9:47AM

I did get a reply from the seller:

"We in fact sent in 250 x 1965 through 1969 blazing ms sets that nearly all the 5c and 1c looked pl. We dont second guess the top grading service. I am guessing you would like the 50,000 plus coins we get back per quarter that got documented pl,cam or dmpl to be called in to ask them if they are sure or there assessment? Ill call PCGS right now to see if they made a mistake."

jmlanzaf · June 17, 2022 9:48AM

@Herb_T said:
Did you call or try contacting them to ask? Seems that would be the place to start.

I contacted them. I suggested they make things right with PCGS and pointed out this forum thread. I'll let you know if they respond.

jmlanzaf · June 17, 2022 9:49AM

@MFeld said:
Trying to sell PCGS coins with grades that are obvious mechanical errors and touting/pricing them as rarities, would almost certainly be in violation of an authorized dealer/PCGS agreement.

If it's not in there now, I'm guessing it soon will be.

jmlanzaf · June 17, 2022 9:51AM

@jmlanzaf said:

@Herb_T said:
Did you call or try contacting them to ask? Seems that would be the place to start.

I contacted them. I suggested they make things right with PCGS and pointed out this forum thread. I'll let you know if they respond.

Interestingly, I contacted them on the top listing and they shut it down in minutes. The second one is still active. Anyone want to send them a message on that one?

FlyingAl · June 17, 2022 9:55AM

@commoncents05 said:
I did get a reply from the seller:

"We in fact sent in 250 x 1965 through 1969 blazing ms sets that nearly all the 5c and 1c looked pl. We dont second guess the top grading service. I am guessing you would like the 50,000 plus coins we get back per quarter that got documented pl,cam or dmpl to be called in to ask them if they are sure or there assessment? Ill call PCGS right now to see if they made a mistake."

@jmlanzaf I got the same reply for the second listing.

jmlanzaf · June 17, 2022 10:08AM

@FlyingAl said:

@commoncents05 said:
I did get a reply from the seller:

"We in fact sent in 250 x 1965 through 1969 blazing ms sets that nearly all the 5c and 1c looked pl. We dont second guess the top grading service. I am guessing you would like the 50,000 plus coins we get back per quarter that got documented pl,cam or dmpl to be called in to ask them if they are sure or there assessment? Ill call PCGS right now to see if they made a mistake."

@jmlanzaf I got the same reply for the second listing.

Here's the reply I got. Clearly a hot head. I will never do business with them.

jmlanzaf · June 17, 2022 10:09AM

@FlyingAl said:

@commoncents05 said:
I did get a reply from the seller:

"We in fact sent in 250 x 1965 through 1969 blazing ms sets that nearly all the 5c and 1c looked pl. We dont second guess the top grading service. I am guessing you would like the 50,000 plus coins we get back per quarter that got documented pl,cam or dmpl to be called in to ask them if they are sure or there assessment? Ill call PCGS right now to see if they made a mistake."

@jmlanzaf I got the same reply for the second listing.

Yet the cert number is on the middle of a run of proofs not MS coins.

FlyingAl · June 17, 2022 10:14AM

@jmlanzaf I just checked again, I got the same response as you too. I think he's a bit outraged his scheme has been discovered.

jshaulis · June 17, 2022 10:19AM

I've bought ~45 items from them over the last couple of months. I have not had a problem at this point, but I think I will look elsewhere if they are pulling shit like this. Thanks for the heads up!

TwoSides2aCoin · June 17, 2022 10:46AM

After paying for variety attribution on a single coin, I still had to use a Sharpie on the outside of the slab that read " Wide AM" because ours truly somehow overlooked it. Let's spread some shame around. The bulk submitter's error in listing is no less shameful than the oversight and mechanical error at the TPG. My opinion.

fathom · June 17, 2022 11:02AM

@jmlanzaf said:

@FlyingAl said:

@commoncents05 said:
I did get a reply from the seller:

"We in fact sent in 250 x 1965 through 1969 blazing ms sets that nearly all the 5c and 1c looked pl. We dont second guess the top grading service. I am guessing you would like the 50,000 plus coins we get back per quarter that got documented pl,cam or dmpl to be called in to ask them if they are sure or there assessment? Ill call PCGS right now to see if they made a mistake."

@jmlanzaf I got the same reply for the second listing.

Here's the reply I got. Clearly a hot head. I will never do business with them.

Agree, clearly. Why does PCGS need to look into anything? A dealer should know better with a $1500 perceived value description.

LanceNewmanOCC · June 17, 2022 11:38AM

@fathom said:
Agree, clearly. Why does PCGS need to look into anything? A dealer should know better with a $1500 perceived value description.

.
no need for me to get involved but even with thousands of coins, this statement holds very true considering the value of the bulk is most likely nowhere near that much for each coin.

JBK · June 17, 2022 12:36PM

The pinned thread that Heather talked about maybe creating might do well to include things like this.

That dealer should/must know it's mislabeled so his willful ignorance is fraud.

cameonut2011 · June 17, 2022 12:39PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@FlyingAl said:

@commoncents05 said:
I did get a reply from the seller:

"We in fact sent in 250 x 1965 through 1969 blazing ms sets that nearly all the 5c and 1c looked pl. We dont second guess the top grading service. I am guessing you would like the 50,000 plus coins we get back per quarter that got documented pl,cam or dmpl to be called in to ask them if they are sure or there assessment? Ill call PCGS right now to see if they made a mistake."

@jmlanzaf I got the same reply for the second listing.

Here's the reply I got. Clearly a hot head. I will never do business with them.

His response to you is pure BS. He knows what he is doing and is mad that he is receiving bad publicity for it. PCGS should sever all business associations with the corporate entity and the individual(s) associated with it.

jmlanzaf · June 17, 2022 2:10PM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@fathom said:
Agree, clearly. Why does PCGS need to look into anything? A dealer should know better with a $1500 perceived value description.

.
no need for me to get involved but even with thousands of coins, this statement holds very true considering the value of the bulk is most likely nowhere near that much for each coin.

Not only that. It appears this dealer has virtually ALL the top pops. This would stand out even to a bulk submitter.

PerryHall · June 17, 2022 2:29PM

Has anyone notified PCGS yet using the flag feature?

HeatherBoyd · June 17, 2022 2:38PM

Hello Everyone,

As was stated in the dealers replies we were contacted this morning regarding possible mech errors for these coins. We have confirmed they were indeed mech errors and the dealer is working with us to have them corrected. The certs are being removed from the populations as I type this. Thank you to everyone who flagged this and reached out to help us correct the mistake as soon as possible. You guys rock!

PCGS Authorized Dealer selling Proof coins in Top Pop PCGS MS Holders

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