Is the 8 Reales Spanish Dollar a US coin?

GulfRasta

Is the 8 Reales or Spanish Dollar the first US coin?

YoloBagels

No

GulfRasta

Why not? It was established by Congress as accepted. What defines a US Coin? Minted in a US state?

YoloBagels

It has to be minted by a US government/entity to be considered a US coin. Just because it circulated in the US does not make it a US issue.

CoinHoarder

https://www.usmint.gov/learn/history/us-circulating-coins

GulfRasta

Fair enough. Have all US coins been minted is a US state or territory? What about territories? Do they count? I've seem to recall US Marianas Island or similar coins or maybe that was stamps.

CoinHoarder

@GulfRasta said:
Fair enough. Have all US coins been minted is a US state or territory? What about territories? Do they count? I've seem to recall US Marianas Island or similar coins or maybe that was stamps.

Good question.

Below is a list of all US Mints ever open. Appears we struck coins in Manila from 1920–1922
and 1925–1941.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_United_States_mints

GulfRasta

I understand our paper money used to be larger. Then the US set its current size based on Philippines script. I hope I'm not starting a riot here talking about paper money. Script of all things.

UpGrayedd

I posted this first in your original thread on the US Coin Forum.

Welcome, and while opinions may vary the Spanish 8 Reales also known as the Spanish Milled Dollar, the Pillar Dollar, or piece of eight is listed in the Red Book of United States Coins.

GulfRasta

I responded there too. I have an agenda. It's a wonderful agenda. I've been sent from the past the reveal known but not discussed history. The history of how the US came to be.
I'm on a Mark Price Bob Woodward tack. I'm following the money.

SlickCoins

Awesome @GulfRasta
I'm looking forwards to hearing more info on your theory.
Good job,,, thanks for sharing
Also welcome 😁

WillieBoyd2

The Red Book is your friend.

syl

I think that the OP followed too much Alex Jones or Foxx ..... make up a story and then espouse it constantly trying to get folks in your camp also defying rational facts.

GulfRasta

@syl Huh? You lost me. Let me tell you how I handle this stuff. I challenge you and everyone else to prove me wrong. I love it. That's what I want. That's how important this stuff is. I'm a patriot and I make no apologies or hide from it.
People of color and the natives did it. Sure. White people were here and played key roles. Like Oliver Pollock. I will not rest until he is a household name. Or the Tranny that founded the US Calvary and saved George Washington's life. Casimir Pulaski. Born a woman and lived as man. Had CAH.
https://www.livescience.com/65183-general-pulaski-female-skeleton.html

This is the important historical information I can provide to the world and people of color. To the LBGTQIA+ community. It's now enshrined in US law that we should do this.

So please. Anything you've got. Let's have it.

Sapyx

On the question of "is this a US coin", let's consider the flip side of the argument.

Ecuador uses the US dollar as it's legal tender currency. Because $1 notes disintegrate quickly in the equatorial climate, they use dollar coins instead of $1 notes. This means that Sacagawea and other "golden dollars" circulate there, as legal tender coins.

Does this mean that we should classify these golden dollars as "Ecuadorian coins"?

No. They are foreign coins (specifically, American coins), that just happen to be also used in Ecuador.

In the same way, Spanish and Spanish-colonial coins circulated and were regarded as legal tender in America. They also circulated in many parts of Africa, Asia and Australasia. Here in Australia, we regard Spanish dollars as part of the "Proclamation series" - coins proclaimed as legal tender by the early colonial government. They are avidly collected as a legitimate part of Australia's coinage history - but we would never consider Spanish dollars to be "Australian coins".

Spanish dollars that were deliberately defaced and mutilated by the NSW Colonial government, on the other hand, are definitely considered to be "Australian coins"; even though the host coin was not made in Australia, the mutilations were done here.

I think, to be considered an "American coin", a coin has to have the name or symbol of the American government, or one of the recognized precursor states to the American government, and/or it's creation has to have been authorized by that government. Thus, Fugio Cents and Continental Dollars are generally regarded a being "the first American coins". Spanish dollars, Dutch duits, British shillings and other foreign coins used in early America don't count.

thefinn

They were legal tender and their weight and fineness copied to make the U.S. Dollar. They are American (Mexico, Guatemala, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia), but not United States of America.

bidask

"Here in Australia, we regard Spanish dollars as part of the "Proclamation series" - coins proclaimed as legal tender by the early colonial government."

Did not know this !

Sapyx

@bidask said:
Did not know this !

If you're curious. the full list of "Proclamation coins", plus the legal tender values assigned to them, can be found on this Wikipedia page. The values were deliberately designed to be "inflated" above the regular going rate for the coins (for example, an English shilling was reckoned at 13 pence, rather than the usual 12); this was an attempt to dis-incentivize visiting merchant ships taking their coins away from the colony again. Didn't work, of course; the merchants simply raised their prices to compensate. Hence the need to create "holey dollars", mutilated coins that the merchants wouldn't want to take away.

It's generally well known amongst international coin dealers that Australians are prepared to pay crazy prices, well above the usual market rate everyone else pays, for coins from the late 1700s that happen to be listed on the Proclamation.

WillieBoyd2

I saw the Gold Johanna (Portugal coin of 12800 Reis) listed in the Australia 1800 Proclamation coins.

This was an uncommon large Portuguese coin minted only from 1724 to 1733 in Portugal (Lisbon) and Brazil (Bahia, Rio de Janeiro, and Minas Gerais).

Portugal gold 12800 reis (8 escudos) "Dobra" 1732-M, Minas Gerais, Brazil
Gold, 38 mm, 28.58 gm

Obverse:
Bust of John V facing right
IOHANNES V D G PORT ET ALG REX, M/1732
(John V by the Grace of God, Portugal and Algarve, King)

Reverse:
Crowned shield of Portugal