@Maywood said:
The bigger heat problem will come from collectors/dealers who photograph these types of holders, leaving the light source quite close to the holder for an extended time. It doesn't take long. Another thing is how tightly the coin is held: coins with no rims or high relief will be subject to friction.
Lights only generate heat of the plastic is absorbing the light.
@BryceM said:
It's important that this material be completely inert and not facilitate any chemical transference. I'm sure they've done their homework, but I'm a bit squeamish about material that actually touches the surface of the coin.
Outgassing is outgassing whether there is a gas pocket between the coin and holder or not. To all of the expected criticals in this thread, why would NGC not do alot of testing in advance to insure it works correctly? Of course they would, but hey, this is a PCGS site so of course here come the naysayers. I personally think the new airviews are excellent, and a novel new development for holding some types of coins and congratulate NGC for their innovative thinking. We need more of that in numismatics..........
@spacehayduke said:
'PCGS did it first". Really? Okay one coin image, others? According to NGC:
"The patent pending NGC AirView Holder is a first of its kind in the coin certification industry."
Well, you're not going to get very far with the Patent Office if it's not the first of its kind. "Its kind" can be defined as broadly or narrowly as possible.
@BryceM said:
It's important that this material be completely inert and not facilitate any chemical transference. I'm sure they've done their homework, but I'm a bit squeamish about material that actually touches the surface of the coin.
Outgassing is outgassing whether there is a gas pocket between the coin and holder or not. To all of the expected criticals in this thread, why would NGC not do alot of testing in advance to insure it works correctly? Of course they would, but hey, this is a PCGS site so of course here come the naysayers. I personally think the new airviews are excellent, and a novel new development for holding some types of coins and congratulate NGC for their innovative thinking. We need more of that in numismatics..........
Best, SH
I don't think there's anyone commenting here that doesn't think a lot of testing went into this product, and I don't think you'd see any less concern about the product had PCGS made an announcement about it. Also, any "naysaying" is more like cautious wondering about all imaginable attributes and use cases. You can be excited to see it and hopeful that it solves a lot of problems and still have questions and concerns.
@Connecticoin said:
That is far better than prongs - will they offer this for all coins or just the one that prongs would ruin?
Ouch!, I think this is one of the questions that is as yet unanswered, the press release is somewhat vague on what will or will not be placed into this type of holder. However, the coin you posted would seem a perfect candidate for this type of holder.
@BryceM said:
It's important that this material be completely inert and not facilitate any chemical transference. I'm sure they've done their homework, but I'm a bit squeamish about material that actually touches the surface of the coin.
Outgassing is outgassing whether there is a gas pocket between the coin and holder or not. To all of the expected criticals in this thread, why would NGC not do alot of testing in advance to insure it works correctly? Of course they would, but hey, this is a PCGS site so of course here come the naysayers. I personally think the new airviews are excellent, and a novel new development for holding some types of coins and congratulate NGC for their innovative thinking. We need more of that in numismatics..........
Best, SH
You could say the same about the prongs which have been known to damage soft metal and thin coins. And I am no Koolaid drinker by any means. I’ll buy any plastic or even raw. The new holder does raise questions, however, given the direct contact with the coin though for obvious reasons that go beyond out gassing. The hot car scenario is an interesting one that I hope NGC has thoroughly tested. I would feel better if it listed the temperature sensitivity of the polymer used and perhaps even divulged what the new insert is made of.
@Connecticoin said:
That is far better than prongs - will they offer this for all coins or just the one that prongs would ruin?
I see someone caught on to my little jab "... They can accept coins up to 30 mm in diameter, roughly the size of the 1792 J-13 pattern."
While they're using this at their discretion, I think we can safely assume that anything that fits that might be damaged by the prongs will get the sandwich instead.
@BryceM said:
It's important that this material be completely inert and not facilitate any chemical transference. I'm sure they've done their homework, but I'm a bit squeamish about material that actually touches the surface of the coin.
Outgassing is outgassing whether there is a gas pocket between the coin and holder or not. To all of the expected criticals in this thread, why would NGC not do alot of testing in advance to insure it works correctly? Of course they would, but hey, this is a PCGS site so of course here come the naysayers. I personally think the new airviews are excellent, and a novel new development for holding some types of coins and congratulate NGC for their innovative thinking. We need more of that in numismatics..........
Best, SH
You could say the same about the prongs which have been known to damage soft metal and thin coins. And I am no Koolaid drinker by any means. I’ll buy any plastic or even raw. The new holder does raise questions, however, given the direct contact with the coin though for obvious reasons that go beyond out gassing. The hot car scenario is an interesting one that I hope NGC has thoroughly tested. I would feel better if it listed the temperature sensitivity of the polymer used and perhaps even divulged what the new insert is made of.
I find this obsession with the contact odd. 2x2's have direct mylar contact. Flips have direct contact with the polymer. Even Dansco albums have direct contact with plastic. U.S. Mint and proof sets have direct contact with plastic. The vast majority of collectors coins are right this minute in direct contact with a polymer...oh, the horror!!!!!!
@Connecticoin said:
That is far better than prongs - will they offer this for all coins or just the one that prongs would ruin?
I see someone caught on to my little jab "... They can accept coins up to 30 mm in diameter, roughly the size of the 1792 J-13 pattern."
While they're using this at their discretion, I think we can safely assume that anything that fits that might be damaged by the prongs will get the sandwich instead.
I would like this option at my discretion, or an option to use the classic "no prong" holder as well. The white prongs are just downright hideous, and I am surprised the market has tolerated these holders for over a decade.
This technology is ancient- we used it 20+ years ago to hold optical isolators and other twitchy little components to keep them from getting scratched in transport…probably an interesting case to see if the patent is granted or issuance challenged by holders of ‘prior art’…
I made my own air-view holders before there were slabs and all coins were raw. I didn't care for flips and preferred the 2"X2" cardboard fold and staple holders but didn't like the ultra-thin cellophane windows in these holders. I would remove the windows and put my coins in half a Saflip brand flip (Mylar) and then staple it into the cardboard 2X2 holder. Since the Mylar flip is much thicker and stiffer, I was able to use a 2X2 cardboard holder with the next larger opening size which allowed me to see the edge. I stopped using this idea after slabs came along which provide better and safer protections of my coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Comments
This is the first I've seen or heard of this new technology and I like the look.
Lights only generate heat of the plastic is absorbing the light.
Amazing dinar. They rarely come that nice. Same with the tremissis. Just exceptional for the type.
Outgassing is outgassing whether there is a gas pocket between the coin and holder or not. To all of the expected criticals in this thread, why would NGC not do alot of testing in advance to insure it works correctly? Of course they would, but hey, this is a PCGS site so of course here come the naysayers. I personally think the new airviews are excellent, and a novel new development for holding some types of coins and congratulate NGC for their innovative thinking. We need more of that in numismatics..........
Best, SH
'PCGS did it first". Really? Okay one coin image, others? According to NGC:
"The patent pending NGC AirView Holder is a first of its kind in the coin certification industry."
I bought these in Stack's June 2019 World Collectors Choice Online Auction - Ancient & World Coins ...
My World Coin Type Set
Don't those have a plastic insert that contacts the coin on the rim?
Well, you're not going to get very far with the Patent Office if it's not the first of its kind. "Its kind" can be defined as broadly or narrowly as possible.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I don't think there's anyone commenting here that doesn't think a lot of testing went into this product, and I don't think you'd see any less concern about the product had PCGS made an announcement about it. Also, any "naysaying" is more like cautious wondering about all imaginable attributes and use cases. You can be excited to see it and hopeful that it solves a lot of problems and still have questions and concerns.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
>> Don't those have a plastic insert that contacts the coin on the rim?
I can't tell for sure, but it seems like the coin is sandwiched between two layers of plastic.
My World Coin Type Set
The original Air View holder was an oversized 2x2
Collector, occasional seller
That is far better than prongs - will they offer this for all coins or just the one that prongs would ruin?
Ouch!, I think this is one of the questions that is as yet unanswered, the press release is somewhat vague on what will or will not be placed into this type of holder. However, the coin you posted would seem a perfect candidate for this type of holder.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
You could say the same about the prongs which have been known to damage soft metal and thin coins. And I am no Koolaid drinker by any means. I’ll buy any plastic or even raw. The new holder does raise questions, however, given the direct contact with the coin though for obvious reasons that go beyond out gassing. The hot car scenario is an interesting one that I hope NGC has thoroughly tested. I would feel better if it listed the temperature sensitivity of the polymer used and perhaps even divulged what the new insert is made of.
I see someone caught on to my little jab "... They can accept coins up to 30 mm in diameter, roughly the size of the 1792 J-13 pattern."
While they're using this at their discretion, I think we can safely assume that anything that fits that might be damaged by the prongs will get the sandwich instead.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I find this obsession with the contact odd. 2x2's have direct mylar contact. Flips have direct contact with the polymer. Even Dansco albums have direct contact with plastic. U.S. Mint and proof sets have direct contact with plastic. The vast majority of collectors coins are right this minute in direct contact with a polymer...oh, the horror!!!!!!
I like the prong less, floating/suspended look. No clutter look.
I would like this option at my discretion, or an option to use the classic "no prong" holder as well. The white prongs are just downright hideous, and I am surprised the market has tolerated these holders for over a decade.
This technology is ancient- we used it 20+ years ago to hold optical isolators and other twitchy little components to keep them from getting scratched in transport…probably an interesting case to see if the patent is granted or issuance challenged by holders of ‘prior art’…
I made my own air-view holders before there were slabs and all coins were raw. I didn't care for flips and preferred the 2"X2" cardboard fold and staple holders but didn't like the ultra-thin cellophane windows in these holders. I would remove the windows and put my coins in half a Saflip brand flip (Mylar) and then staple it into the cardboard 2X2 holder. Since the Mylar flip is much thicker and stiffer, I was able to use a 2X2 cardboard holder with the next larger opening size which allowed me to see the edge. I stopped using this idea after slabs came along which provide better and safer protections of my coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire