@alaura22 said:
The danger is starting your coin for a $1 and getting a $1.
I don’t know of any major auction house where that happens, unless the coin is only “worth” a few dollars. There are simply too many bidders who will gladly pay 70%, 80%, 90% or whatever of fair market value. And it’s doubtful that a coin worth only a few dollars would be offered as a single lot in the first place.
Mark
The solar eclipse is a rare event, but in happens
All I'm saying is that it could happen
I watch GC when they list there new items up for auction, every one that I come across with an opening bid of $1 will get a bid within a few hours! Hey, why not, who wouldn't be willing to place a bid for $1 on a coin that is graded in a auction. You never know what could happen.
The whole point that I was trying to make with this person was to have him protect himself in an auction. He seems to change his mind quite often, which is his choice to do so.
I can think of an awful lot of coins I wouldn't want to be in to for $1+BP+shipping. No sales tax in my state.
Really???
You wouldn't be interested in a graded coin for a $1 bid? Add BP, wow 10% now we're up to $1.10, then shipping $5 +.05 per coin for anything under $500.
So, you're telling me that you would pass on around 400 graded coins for about $500 total expence???
There is a minimum BP. It's not 10 cents. It's $5 at GC and $20ish at Heritage and Stacks
I stand corrected, I just looked and you are correct on the $5 min
Ok, so revise my original post to buying 400 coins down to 350 coins
@MasonG said:
It should be easy enough to determine a reasonable price range for common coins. Why would anyone who's paying attention bid more than 20%-25% back of that?
@MasonG said:
It should be easy enough to determine a reasonable price range for common coins. Why would anyone who's paying attention bid more than 20%-25% back of that?
3.5 billion women on the planet. Some of them are extra beautiful.
As an aside, I don't believe in auctioning widgets. I think that 95% of the time only the auction house wins. But everyone wants to be in the 5%.
The problem is that there is no control group. You can convince yourself of anything. Isn't it telling that people here will tell you that GC is great for both buying and selling? They can't both be "winning".
@jmlanzaf said:
3.5 billion women on the planet. Some of them are extra beautiful.
But are they common? If one doesn't work out, can you easily find another?
edited to add... The OP mentioned coins that are "nice" and "eye appealing". This is all well and good, but if they're not rare, what is the motivation of potential bidders to bid anywhere near retail for them?
@MasonG said:
It should be easy enough to determine a reasonable price range for common coins. Why would anyone who's paying attention bid more than 20%-25% back of that?
3.5 billion women on the planet. Some of them are extra beautiful.
As an aside, I don't believe in auctioning widgets. I think that 95% of the time only the auction house wins. But everyone wants to be in the 5%.
The problem is that there is no control group. You can convince yourself of anything. Isn't it telling that people here will tell you that GC is great for both buying and selling? They can't both be "winning".
I do belive you can say that about GC. It's great for buying, ie: lowest rate all around AND a good platform to sell. Win/Win
Side note: 3.5 billion women?
@jmlanzaf said:
3.5 billion women on the planet. Some of them are extra beautiful.
But are they common? If one doesn't work out, can you easily find another?
edited to add... The OP mentioned coins that are "nice" and "eye appealing". This is all well and good, but if they're not rare, what is the motivation of potential bidders to bid anywhere near retail for them?
Yes, you can! It might be expensive but ................
@alaura22 said:
If bidders don't figure out the total costs that is there bad.
The total amount you should bid has all the costs rolled in to your final bid
Exactly. It doesn't matter what the buyer's fee is as long as you allow for it in your bid.
@MasonG said:
It should be easy enough to determine a reasonable price range for common coins. Why would anyone who's paying attention bid more than 20%-25% back of that?
3.5 billion women on the planet. Some of them are extra beautiful.
As an aside, I don't believe in auctioning widgets. I think that 95% of the time only the auction house wins. But everyone wants to be in the 5%.
The problem is that there is no control group. You can convince yourself of anything. Isn't it telling that people here will tell you that GC is great for both buying and selling? They can't both be "winning".
I do belive you can say that about GC. It's great for buying, ie: lowest rate all around AND a good platform to sell. Win/Win
Side note: 3.5 billion women?
Strongly disagree. That is my point about people convincing themselves of a truth.
GC is not the lowest cost auction house on many things. GC is not cheaper than eBay. Many dealer margins are lower than GC costs.
Example: This week I bought a gold coin for $417. I sold it to another dealer for $425 who had a customer at $450. Tell me how that would be better at GC. For the seller to win, it would have to be bid to $525. How did the buyer do better at $525 when they actually bought it at $450?
If I wanted to auction it, I could have thrown it on ebay. At $500, I would net $450. So, both the buyer and seller would be better on ebay.
@alaura22 said:
If bidders don't figure out the total costs that is there bad.
The total amount you should bid has all the costs rolled in to your final bid
His point is that if you are buying the coin at $200 all-in, it doesn't matter if the BP was 10% or 20%. It cost you $200 in both cases.
@alaura22 said:
If bidders don't figure out the total costs that is there bad.
The total amount you should bid has all the costs rolled in to your final bid
His point is that if you are buying the coin at $200 all-in, it doesn't matter if the BP was 10% or 20%. It cost you $200 in both cases.
Yes, that's the point. Interestingly enough, the buyers who benefit from lower buyers fees are those who don't account for them in their bids.
@MasonG said:
It should be easy enough to determine a reasonable price range for common coins. Why would anyone who's paying attention bid more than 20%-25% back of that?
3.5 billion women on the planet. Some of them are extra beautiful.
As an aside, I don't believe in auctioning widgets. I think that 95% of the time only the auction house wins. But everyone wants to be in the 5%.
The problem is that there is no control group. You can convince yourself of anything. Isn't it telling that people here will tell you that GC is great for both buying and selling? They can't both be "winning".
I do belive you can say that about GC. It's great for buying, ie: lowest rate all around AND a good platform to sell. Win/Win
Side note: 3.5 billion women? > @MasonG said:
@alaura22 said:
If bidders don't figure out the total costs that is there bad.
The total amount you should bid has all the costs rolled in to your final bid
His point is that if you are buying the coin at $200 all-in, it doesn't matter if the BP was 10% or 20%. It cost you $200 in both cases.
Yes, that's the point. Interestingly enough, the buyers who benefit from lower buyers fees are those who don't account for them in their bids.
Even more interesting, the sellers who benefit most often benefit from the higher BP because they get a piece of that action. You can't give a seller 110% of hammer when your BP is 10%.
We moved to a different aspect than the OP, so I’ll share why as a buyer, I clearly prefer the GC auction closing format over that of DLRC, Heritage, Stacks, and Legend. Buyer fees don’t matter to me and many/most bidders, as @alaura22 and many others have clearly explained (take the bp into account in determining your max hammer bid).
GC has a hard close. As such, I’ll place my max hammer bid only with about 10 seconds or so remaining. (If earlier bidding has surpassed my planned max hammer, I then just say goodbye). This accomplishes two things:
If it turns out my max hammer is the high bid, it does not allow others any time to see my new high bid (possibly lower than my max) and then place a new higher bid by them.
Had I placed my high max bid earlier, even just a few minutes earlier, even if I end up as the high bidder, it gives others time to think, and then they have time to place one or more bids. In that situation, even if I ended up as high bidder, potentially I ended up paying more than I otherwise would have, had I placed that high max bid with only 10 seconds to go.
The other auction houses have softer closings, so one always has time to raise their bids, as the bidding will never end until the final underbidder has chosen to stop bidding. This type of close is great for sellers, as many last minute bids can continue to raise the final hammer price, but not as good for buyers, since others have plenty of time to think about raising their bid.
Word salad, lol.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@MasonG said:
Sniping is why I don't run auctions on eBay anymore. Why bother with them, when so many "bidders" make a deliberate effort to not compete?
Wow, I totally don't understand what you just said
Care to elaborate?
The point of auctioning something is to have interested buyers competing with their bids for your item. Sniping interferes with this by limiting the ability to respond to being outbid. Or just read winesteven's post above:
"If it turns out my max hammer is the high bid, it does not allow others any time to see my new high bid (possibly lower than my max) and then place a new higher bid by them."
As a seller, why would I want bidders not to be able to respond to being outbid?
I would think that if the current bidder would have put in a higher bid on the item then when the "sniper" puts in his bid and falls short of the highest bid the current bidder would still get the coin.
Sniping only helps bring the current bid higher, if the snip bid is higher then the current bidder then he gets the coin, and like winesteven said above if the sniper bid isn't enough the current bidder wins the coin. Why would the seller be against that?
@alaura22 said:
I would think that if the current bidder would have put in a higher bid on the item then when the "sniper" puts in his bid and falls short of the highest bid the current bidder would still get the coin.
Yep. What about when the current bidder's bid isn't high enough and he'd like to bid more but can't?
@alaura22 said:
Sniping only helps bring the current bid higher, if the snip bid is higher then the current bidder then he gets the coin, and like winesteven said above if the sniper bid isn't enough the current bidder wins the coin. Why would the seller be against that?
See previous response.
If you're selling a coin and somebody is willing to pay more, are you okay with them not being able to and having to take less for it?
edited to add... To be perfectly clear, when I'm selling something I'd prefer to get more for it rather than less. People don't snipe because it helps them to pay more.
I beleive it still comes down to what the current bidder places as his or her high bid. The sniper has his limit also, and if his limit is higher then the current bidders limit he wins. AND the seller wins because he got more for the coin.
@alaura22 said:
I beleive it still comes down to what the current bidder places as his or her high bid. The sniper has his limit also, and if his limit is higher then the current bidders limit he wins. AND the seller wins because he got more for the coin.
But people do have the ability to compete in a soft close which might give you another interval or two of bidding.
Otherwise, why snipe?
People snipe because they believe it gets them items more cheaply.
@alaura22 said:
I beleive it still comes down to what the current bidder places as his or her high bid. The sniper has his limit also, and if his limit is higher then the current bidders limit he wins.
The current high bidder's actual high bid can be higher than the one he's currently made, but prevented from making because the auction ends before he can make it.
@alaura22 said:
AND the seller wins because he got more for the coin.
If the current high bidder was able to bid again after the sniper's bid, the seller would get even more. As a seller, I like more.
@alaura22 said:
I beleive it still comes down to what the current bidder places as his or her high bid. The sniper has his limit also, and if his limit is higher then the current bidders limit he wins.
The current high bidder's actual high bid can be higher than the one he's currently made, but prevented from making because the auction ends before he can make it.
@alaura22 said:
AND the seller wins because he got more for the coin.
If the current high bidder was able to bid again after the sniper's bid, the seller would get even more. As a seller, I like more.
Your response made absolutely no sense whatsoever
I'm done
@alaura22 said:
I beleive it still comes down to what the current bidder places as his or her high bid. The sniper has his limit also, and if his limit is higher then the current bidders limit he wins.
The current high bidder's actual high bid can be higher than the one he's currently made, but prevented from making because the auction ends before he can make it.
@alaura22 said:
AND the seller wins because he got more for the coin.
If the current high bidder was able to bid again after the sniper's bid, the seller would get even more. As a seller, I like more.
Your response made absolutely no sense whatsoever
I'm done
All he's saying is that the current high bidder might be willing to stretch and go higher but is prevented by the hard stop.
I'm assuming you have minimal auction experience based on your responses. Traditionally, only mail bids auctions had a hard stop. Normal auctions bid until everyone drops out. That gives people far more time to make decisions about placing another bid.
Sniping didn't exist in the past. It only exists now because people want to sneak in at the end and not give the competition a chance to counter. The goal is to depress the final bid not enhance the sale price.
To be fair, camping out in front of a desired lot on a bid board is not a new thing.
@jmlanzaf said:
It only exists now because people want to sneak in at the end and not give the competition a chance to counter. The goal is to depress the final bid not enhance the sale price.
Exactly. Is there any bidding strategy (aside maybe from shilling) that seeks to enhance the sale price?
@jmlanzaf said:
All he's saying is that the current high bidder might be willing to stretch and go higher but is prevented by the hard stop.
I'm assuming you have minimal auction experience based on your responses. Traditionally, only mail bids auctions had a hard stop. Normal auctions bid until everyone drops out. That gives people far more time to make decisions about placing another bid.
Sniping didn't exist in the past. It only exists now because people want to sneak in at the end and not give the competition a chance to counter. The goal is to depress the final bid not enhance the sale price.
Absolutely, and as a bidder, why not? That’s my point. The hard close of GC (and eBay auctions) is a benefit to buyers patient enough to wait to bid until the very end. This comes at the expense of the seller, who potentially may have netted higher proceeds had the auction had a soft close!
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@alaura22 said:
I beleive it still comes down to what the current bidder places as his or her high bid. The sniper has his limit also, and if his limit is higher then the current bidders limit he wins.
The current high bidder's actual high bid can be higher than the one he's currently made, but prevented from making because the auction ends before he can make it.
@alaura22 said:
AND the seller wins because he got more for the coin.
If the current high bidder was able to bid again after the sniper's bid, the seller would get even more. As a seller, I like more.
Your response made absolutely no sense whatsoever
I'm done
All he's saying is that the current high bidder might be willing to stretch and go higher but is prevented by the hard stop.
I'm assuming you have minimal auction experience based on your responses. Traditionally, only mail bids auctions had a hard stop. Normal auctions bid until everyone drops out. That gives people far more time to make decisions about placing another bid.
Sniping didn't exist in the past. It only exists now because people want to sneak in at the end and not give the competition a chance to counter. The goal is to depress the final bid not enhance the sale price.
One by One
The current bidder had ample time to enter a strong bid, don't blame the sniper for having a stronger bid
You assume incorrectly, I have been bidder for many many years in all different auction platforms
Don't try and bash me, my experence goes way back! I have been bidding in auctions for a very long time.
Sniping has been going on for decades, nothing new here.
I don't know how old you are but you have known this. Makes me believe that YOU are the one with minimal experence. Back in the day they even had an app to do it for you
So, like I told Mason, I'm done with this. Belive what you want to believe
See Ya
@alaura22 , I think you’re misinterpreting the true point being made by @MasonG and possibly @jmlanzaf. Neither of them is really criticizing the bidder who snipes. Instead, MasonG is critical of the process that allows for the sniping to occur, and as such, he chooses not to place his items for sale in those venues.
You and I, and many others, will continue placing our bids in the last few seconds, and there’s absolutely no reason for any of us to feel bad or guilty. As a buyer, when I go to sleep each night and say my prayers, I wish the other venues that I also regularly buy coins from, would change over to a hard close. But as I indicated earlier, a soft close is better for sellers, everything else being equal.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@winesteven said: @alaura22 , I think you’re misinterpreting the true point being made by @MasonG and possibly @jmlanzaf. Neither of them is really criticizing the bidder who snipes. Instead, MasonG is critical of the process that allows for the sniping to occur, and as such, he chooses not to place his items for sale in those venues.
You and I, and many others, will continue placing our bids in the last few seconds, and there’s absolutely no reason for any of us to feel bad or guilty. As a buyer, when I go to sleep each night and say my prayers, I wish the other venues that I also regularly buy coins from, would change over to a hard close. But as I indicated earlier, a soft close is better for sellers, everything else being equal.
Steve
But Steve, Sniping has been always out there on these auction sites. Like I said above, they even had apps to do it for you. So why now are they complaining about something that's been going on forever???
I'm done
@winesteven said:
The hard close of GC (and eBay auctions) is a benefit to buyers patient enough to wait to bid until the very end. This comes at the expense of the seller, who potentially may have netted higher proceeds had the auction had a soft close!
Yep. But try to explain that to everybody. Go ahead- I'll wait.
@winesteven said:
I think you’re misinterpreting the true point being made by @MasonG and possibly @jmlanzaf. Neither of them is really criticizing the bidder who snipes. Instead, MasonG is critical of the process that allows for the sniping to occur, and as such, he chooses not to place his items for sale in those venues.
I'm not critical of it, I'm just pointing out how it's less "seller friendly" than other auction terms can be.
@winesteven said:
You and I, and many others, will continue placing our bids in the last few seconds, and there’s absolutely no reason for any of us to feel bad or guilty.
I snipe on eBay. Why not? It's not against the rules. I can't begin to tell you how much money it's made me. The people who were selling those coins? Would they prefer to have gotten what I did for their coins? I don't know, but I bet they would.
@winesteven said:
We moved to a different aspect than the OP, so I’ll share why as a buyer, I clearly prefer the GC auction closing format over that of DLRC, Heritage, Stacks, and Legend. Buyer fees don’t matter to me and many/most bidders, as @alaura22 and many others have clearly explained (take the bp into account in determining your max hammer bid).
GC has a hard close. As such, I’ll place my max hammer bid only with about 10 seconds or so remaining. (If earlier bidding has surpassed my planned max hammer, I then just say goodbye). This accomplishes two things:
If it turns out my max hammer is the high bid, it does not allow others any time to see my new high bid (possibly lower than my max) and then place a new higher bid by them.
Had I placed my high max bid earlier, even just a few minutes earlier, even if I end up as the high bidder, it gives others time to think, and then they have time to place one or more bids. In that situation, even if I ended up as high bidder, potentially I ended up paying more than I otherwise would have, had I placed that high max bid with only 10 seconds to go.
The other auction houses have softer closings, so one always has time to raise their bids, as the bidding will never end until the final underbidder has chosen to stop bidding. This type of close is great for sellers, as many last minute bids can continue to raise the final hammer price, but not as good for buyers, since others have plenty of time to think about raising their bid.
Word salad, lol.
Steve
But doesn’t fear of sniping make other bidders artificially inflate their secret high bids in the last few minutes of a GC auction?
@jmlanzaf said:
3.5 billion women on the planet. Some of them are extra beautiful.
But are they common? If one doesn't work out, can you easily find another?
edited to add... The OP mentioned coins that are "nice" and "eye appealing". This is all well and good, but if they're not rare, what is the motivation of potential bidders to bid anywhere near retail for them?
Because common coins are common doesn’t mean you can find easily common coins with amazing eye appeal. All my coins I bought in 64 or 65 look like 65-67 in appearance. All have incredible luster and super clean surfaces
@jmlanzaf said:
3.5 billion women on the planet. Some of them are extra beautiful.
But are they common? If one doesn't work out, can you easily find another?
edited to add... The OP mentioned coins that are "nice" and "eye appealing". This is all well and good, but if they're not rare, what is the motivation of potential bidders to bid anywhere near retail for them?
Because common coins are common doesn’t mean you can find easily common coins with amazing eye appeal. All my coins I bought in 64 or 65 look like 65-67 in appearance. All have incredible luster and super clean surfaces
Well then, you should offer them for sale and the prices will go to the moon.
@jmlanzaf said:
3.5 billion women on the planet. Some of them are extra beautiful.
But are they common? If one doesn't work out, can you easily find another?
edited to add... The OP mentioned coins that are "nice" and "eye appealing". This is all well and good, but if they're not rare, what is the motivation of potential bidders to bid anywhere near retail for them?
Because common coins are common doesn’t mean you can find easily common coins with amazing eye appeal. All my coins I bought in 64 or 65 look like 65-67 in appearance. All have incredible luster and super clean surfaces
Well then, you should offer them for sale and the prices will go to the moon.
You are making fun of me. They would probably do well, not moon money, well perhaps 1or 2
@Joey29 said:
You are making fun of me. They would probably do well, not moon money, well perhaps 1or 2
No, I'm not. You said the coins you bought "in 64 or 65 look like 65-67 in appearance. All have incredible luster and super clean surfaces". If that's so, what are you worried about?
@Joey29 said:
You are making fun of me. They would probably do well, not moon money, well perhaps 1or 2
No, I'm not. You said the coins you bought "in 64 or 65 look like 65-67 in appearance. All have incredible luster and super clean surfaces". If that's so, what are you worried about?
Nothing. I am not selling all maybe 1or 2. The question of my post was GC or DLRC for these kind of coin?
@Joey29 said:
You are making fun of me. They would probably do well, not moon money, well perhaps 1or 2
No, I'm not. You said the coins you bought "in 64 or 65 look like 65-67 in appearance. All have incredible luster and super clean surfaces". If that's so, what are you worried about?
Nothing. I am not selling all maybe 1or 2. The question of my post was GC or DLRC for these kind of coin?
It would help you get better information if you showed the coins you are interested in selling, and not the ones you're not.
@alaura22 said:
I beleive it still comes down to what the current bidder places as his or her high bid. The sniper has his limit also, and if his limit is higher then the current bidders limit he wins.
The current high bidder's actual high bid can be higher than the one he's currently made, but prevented from making because the auction ends before he can make it.
@alaura22 said:
AND the seller wins because he got more for the coin.
If the current high bidder was able to bid again after the sniper's bid, the seller would get even more. As a seller, I like more.
Your response made absolutely no sense whatsoever
I'm done
All he's saying is that the current high bidder might be willing to stretch and go higher but is prevented by the hard stop.
I'm assuming you have minimal auction experience based on your responses. Traditionally, only mail bids auctions had a hard stop. Normal auctions bid until everyone drops out. That gives people far more time to make decisions about placing another bid.
Sniping didn't exist in the past. It only exists now because people want to sneak in at the end and not give the competition a chance to counter. The goal is to depress the final bid not enhance the sale price.
One by One
The current bidder had ample time to enter a strong bid, don't blame the sniper for having a stronger bid
You assume incorrectly, I have been bidder for many many years in all different auction platforms
Don't try and bash me, my experence goes way back! I have been bidding in auctions for a very long time.
Sniping has been going on for decades, nothing new here.
I don't know how old you are but you have known this. Makes me believe that YOU are the one with minimal experence. Back in the day they even had an app to do it for you
So, like I told Mason, I'm done with this. Belive what you want to believe
See Ya
I'm not bashing you. But your responses seem unaware of basic auction theory. Before ebay, there was no sniping. Auctions were live with auctioneers and no time limit.
If you're as experienced as you claim, you would know that the whole point of sniping is to depress the bidding. Otherwise, you wouldn't wait until the clock runs out. That clearly is NOT in the best interest of the seller.
@jmlanzaf said:
3.5 billion women on the planet. Some of them are extra beautiful.
But are they common? If one doesn't work out, can you easily find another?
edited to add... The OP mentioned coins that are "nice" and "eye appealing". This is all well and good, but if they're not rare, what is the motivation of potential bidders to bid anywhere near retail for them?
Because common coins are common doesn’t mean you can find easily common coins with amazing eye appeal. All my coins I bought in 64 or 65 look like 65-67 in appearance. All have incredible luster and super clean surfaces
Good luck in an online auction with mediocre photos.
@humanssuck said:
Put them on the BST first. If you happen to sell them there, no auction house fees. Worst case, you can auction them if you dont get an offer you like. what's the harm in trying?
The BST only works if you price them well above guide. The point of an auction is to hopefully win a battle between 2 buyers. If they sell quickly on BST, you'll forever think they were priced too cheaply.
I will gladly pay a 50% premium if it gets me 60% more money. It's not the fee, it's the net in pocket.
I dont see a bidding war happening for the majority of the posted coins...hence my suggestion. I see more risk of dissapointing results at auction for widgets than i do of missing out on a couple bucks because someone buys it quick on bst if you price it slightly low.
The gold CAC's i might auction because there's a stronger market for those.
@alaura22 said:
The danger is starting your coin for a $1 and getting a $1.
I don’t know of any major auction house where that happens, unless the coin is only “worth” a few dollars. There are simply too many bidders who will gladly pay 70%, 80%, 90% or whatever of fair market value. And it’s doubtful that a coin worth only a few dollars would be offered as a single lot in the first place.
Mark
The solar eclipse is a rare event, but in happens
All I'm saying is that it could happen
I watch GC when they list there new items up for auction, every one that I come across with an opening bid of $1 will get a bid within a few hours! Hey, why not, who wouldn't be willing to place a bid for $1 on a coin that is graded in a auction. You never know what could happen.
The whole point that I was trying to make with this person was to have him protect himself in an auction. He seems to change his mind quite often, which is his choice to do so.
I can think of an awful lot of coins I wouldn't want to be in to for $1+BP+shipping. No sales tax in my state.
Really???
You wouldn't be interested in a graded coin for a $1 bid? Add BP, wow 10% now we're up to $1.10, then shipping $5 +.05 per coin for anything under $500.
So, you're telling me that you would pass on around 400 graded coins for about $500 total expence???
Yes. AU Zincolns. XF '80s Roosevelts. That sort of thing. People submit rolls of coins, keep the ones that get satisfactory grades and jettison the rest. What would you pay if one of these many new posters submitted their rare errors, only to find out what PCGS really thinks and decides to sell them? I can find pictures if you need any examples of coins I wouldn't pay $1++ for. Even if someone else has foolishly paid much more to PCGS.
@alaura22 said:
The danger is starting your coin for a $1 and getting a $1.
I don’t know of any major auction house where that happens, unless the coin is only “worth” a few dollars. There are simply too many bidders who will gladly pay 70%, 80%, 90% or whatever of fair market value. And it’s doubtful that a coin worth only a few dollars would be offered as a single lot in the first place.
Mark
The solar eclipse is a rare event, but in happens
All I'm saying is that it could happen
I watch GC when they list there new items up for auction, every one that I come across with an opening bid of $1 will get a bid within a few hours! Hey, why not, who wouldn't be willing to place a bid for $1 on a coin that is graded in a auction. You never know what could happen.
The whole point that I was trying to make with this person was to have him protect himself in an auction. He seems to change his mind quite often, which is his choice to do so.
I can think of an awful lot of coins I wouldn't want to be in to for $1+BP+shipping. No sales tax in my state.
Really???
You wouldn't be interested in a graded coin for a $1 bid? Add BP, wow 10% now we're up to $1.10, then shipping $5 +.05 per coin for anything under $500.
So, you're telling me that you would pass on around 400 graded coins for about $500 total expence???
Yes. AU Zincolns. XF '80s Roosevelts. That sort of thing. People submit rolls of coins, keep the ones that get satisfactory grades and jettison the rest. What would you pay if one of these many new posters submitted their rare errors, only to find out what PCGS really thinks and decides to sell them? I can find pictures if you need any examples of coins I wouldn't pay $1++ for. Even if someone else has foolishly paid much more to PCGS.
@humanssuck said:
Put them on the BST first. If you happen to sell them there, no auction house fees. Worst case, you can auction them if you dont get an offer you like. what's the harm in trying?
The BST only works if you price them well above guide. The point of an auction is to hopefully win a battle between 2 buyers. If they sell quickly on BST, you'll forever think they were priced too cheaply.
I will gladly pay a 50% premium if it gets me 60% more money. It's not the fee, it's the net in pocket.
I dont see a bidding war happening for the majority of the posted coins...hence my suggestion. I see more risk of dissapointing results at auction for widgets than i do of missing out on a couple bucks because someone buys it quick on bst if you price it slightly low.
The gold CAC's i might auction because there's a stronger market for those.
I don't think they all belong in an auction, as I said. However, BST isn't a replacement for an auction if someone wants an auction.
Answers
I stand corrected, I just looked and you are correct on the $5 min
Ok, so revise my original post to buying 400 coins down to 350 coins
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Cuz they are extra beautiful.
Extra beautiful coins that are common?
Every beautiful coin doesn't have to be expensive...............does it?
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Cuz they are extra beautiful.> @MasonG said:
3.5 billion women on the planet. Some of them are extra beautiful.
As an aside, I don't believe in auctioning widgets. I think that 95% of the time only the auction house wins. But everyone wants to be in the 5%.
The problem is that there is no control group. You can convince yourself of anything. Isn't it telling that people here will tell you that GC is great for both buying and selling? They can't both be "winning".
But are they common? If one doesn't work out, can you easily find another?
edited to add... The OP mentioned coins that are "nice" and "eye appealing". This is all well and good, but if they're not rare, what is the motivation of potential bidders to bid anywhere near retail for them?
I do belive you can say that about GC. It's great for buying, ie: lowest rate all around AND a good platform to sell. Win/Win
Side note: 3.5 billion women?
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Yes, you can! It might be expensive but ................
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
That only matters for bidders who don't bother to figure their costs.
If bidders don't figure out the total costs that is there bad.
The total amount you should bid has all the costs rolled in to your final bid
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Exactly. It doesn't matter what the buyer's fee is as long as you allow for it in your bid.
Strongly disagree. That is my point about people convincing themselves of a truth.
GC is not the lowest cost auction house on many things. GC is not cheaper than eBay. Many dealer margins are lower than GC costs.
Example: This week I bought a gold coin for $417. I sold it to another dealer for $425 who had a customer at $450. Tell me how that would be better at GC. For the seller to win, it would have to be bid to $525. How did the buyer do better at $525 when they actually bought it at $450?
If I wanted to auction it, I could have thrown it on ebay. At $500, I would net $450. So, both the buyer and seller would be better on ebay.
His point is that if you are buying the coin at $200 all-in, it doesn't matter if the BP was 10% or 20%. It cost you $200 in both cases.
Yes, that's the point. Interestingly enough, the buyers who benefit from lower buyers fees are those who don't account for them in their bids.
Even more interesting, the sellers who benefit most often benefit from the higher BP because they get a piece of that action. You can't give a seller 110% of hammer when your BP is 10%.
But facts don't matter. Everyone wins!
We moved to a different aspect than the OP, so I’ll share why as a buyer, I clearly prefer the GC auction closing format over that of DLRC, Heritage, Stacks, and Legend. Buyer fees don’t matter to me and many/most bidders, as @alaura22 and many others have clearly explained (take the bp into account in determining your max hammer bid).
GC has a hard close. As such, I’ll place my max hammer bid only with about 10 seconds or so remaining. (If earlier bidding has surpassed my planned max hammer, I then just say goodbye). This accomplishes two things:
The other auction houses have softer closings, so one always has time to raise their bids, as the bidding will never end until the final underbidder has chosen to stop bidding. This type of close is great for sellers, as many last minute bids can continue to raise the final hammer price, but not as good for buyers, since others have plenty of time to think about raising their bid.
Word salad, lol.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Sniping is why I don't run auctions on eBay anymore. Why bother with them, when so many "bidders" make a deliberate effort to not compete?
Wow, I totally don't understand what you just said
Care to elaborate?
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
The point of auctioning something is to have interested buyers competing with their bids for your item. Sniping interferes with this by limiting the ability to respond to being outbid. Or just read winesteven's post above:
"If it turns out my max hammer is the high bid, it does not allow others any time to see my new high bid (possibly lower than my max) and then place a new higher bid by them."
As a seller, why would I want bidders not to be able to respond to being outbid?
I would think that if the current bidder would have put in a higher bid on the item then when the "sniper" puts in his bid and falls short of the highest bid the current bidder would still get the coin.
Sniping only helps bring the current bid higher, if the snip bid is higher then the current bidder then he gets the coin, and like winesteven said above if the sniper bid isn't enough the current bidder wins the coin. Why would the seller be against that?
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Yep. What about when the current bidder's bid isn't high enough and he'd like to bid more but can't?
See previous response.
If you're selling a coin and somebody is willing to pay more, are you okay with them not being able to and having to take less for it?
edited to add... To be perfectly clear, when I'm selling something I'd prefer to get more for it rather than less. People don't snipe because it helps them to pay more.
I beleive it still comes down to what the current bidder places as his or her high bid. The sniper has his limit also, and if his limit is higher then the current bidders limit he wins. AND the seller wins because he got more for the coin.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
But people do have the ability to compete in a soft close which might give you another interval or two of bidding.
Otherwise, why snipe?
People snipe because they believe it gets them items more cheaply.
The current high bidder's actual high bid can be higher than the one he's currently made, but prevented from making because the auction ends before he can make it.
If the current high bidder was able to bid again after the sniper's bid, the seller would get even more. As a seller, I like more.
Your response made absolutely no sense whatsoever
I'm done
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Probably just as well.
All he's saying is that the current high bidder might be willing to stretch and go higher but is prevented by the hard stop.
I'm assuming you have minimal auction experience based on your responses. Traditionally, only mail bids auctions had a hard stop. Normal auctions bid until everyone drops out. That gives people far more time to make decisions about placing another bid.
Sniping didn't exist in the past. It only exists now because people want to sneak in at the end and not give the competition a chance to counter. The goal is to depress the final bid not enhance the sale price.
To be fair, camping out in front of a desired lot on a bid board is not a new thing.
Exactly. Is there any bidding strategy (aside maybe from shilling) that seeks to enhance the sale price?
Absolutely, and as a bidder, why not? That’s my point. The hard close of GC (and eBay auctions) is a benefit to buyers patient enough to wait to bid until the very end. This comes at the expense of the seller, who potentially may have netted higher proceeds had the auction had a soft close!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
One by One
The current bidder had ample time to enter a strong bid, don't blame the sniper for having a stronger bid
You assume incorrectly, I have been bidder for many many years in all different auction platforms
Don't try and bash me, my experence goes way back! I have been bidding in auctions for a very long time.
Sniping has been going on for decades, nothing new here.
I don't know how old you are but you have known this. Makes me believe that YOU are the one with minimal experence. Back in the day they even had an app to do it for you
So, like I told Mason, I'm done with this. Belive what you want to believe
See Ya
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
@alaura22 , I think you’re misinterpreting the true point being made by @MasonG and possibly @jmlanzaf. Neither of them is really criticizing the bidder who snipes. Instead, MasonG is critical of the process that allows for the sniping to occur, and as such, he chooses not to place his items for sale in those venues.
You and I, and many others, will continue placing our bids in the last few seconds, and there’s absolutely no reason for any of us to feel bad or guilty. As a buyer, when I go to sleep each night and say my prayers, I wish the other venues that I also regularly buy coins from, would change over to a hard close. But as I indicated earlier, a soft close is better for sellers, everything else being equal.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
But Steve, Sniping has been always out there on these auction sites. Like I said above, they even had apps to do it for you. So why now are they complaining about something that's been going on forever???
I'm done
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Yep. But try to explain that to everybody. Go ahead- I'll wait.
I'm not critical of it, I'm just pointing out how it's less "seller friendly" than other auction terms can be.
I snipe on eBay. Why not? It's not against the rules. I can't begin to tell you how much money it's made me. The people who were selling those coins? Would they prefer to have gotten what I did for their coins? I don't know, but I bet they would.
That's two. Do I hear three?
3
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
So- not out, then?
Because common coins are common doesn’t mean you can find easily common coins with amazing eye appeal. All my coins I bought in 64 or 65 look like 65-67 in appearance. All have incredible luster and super clean surfaces
Well then, you should offer them for sale and the prices will go to the moon.
You are making fun of me. They would probably do well, not moon money, well perhaps 1or 2
No, I'm not. You said the coins you bought "in 64 or 65 look like 65-67 in appearance. All have incredible luster and super clean surfaces". If that's so, what are you worried about?
Nothing. I am not selling all maybe 1or 2. The question of my post was GC or DLRC for these kind of coin?
It would help you get better information if you showed the coins you are interested in selling, and not the ones you're not.
I'm not bashing you. But your responses seem unaware of basic auction theory. Before ebay, there was no sniping. Auctions were live with auctioneers and no time limit.
If you're as experienced as you claim, you would know that the whole point of sniping is to depress the bidding. Otherwise, you wouldn't wait until the clock runs out. That clearly is NOT in the best interest of the seller.
Good luck in an online auction with mediocre photos.
No, it doesn't. But then again, depending on the coin, it doesn't mean you can't.
I dont see a bidding war happening for the majority of the posted coins...hence my suggestion. I see more risk of dissapointing results at auction for widgets than i do of missing out on a couple bucks because someone buys it quick on bst if you price it slightly low.
The gold CAC's i might auction because there's a stronger market for those.
Yes. AU Zincolns. XF '80s Roosevelts. That sort of thing. People submit rolls of coins, keep the ones that get satisfactory grades and jettison the rest. What would you pay if one of these many new posters submitted their rare errors, only to find out what PCGS really thinks and decides to sell them? I can find pictures if you need any examples of coins I wouldn't pay $1++ for. Even if someone else has foolishly paid much more to PCGS.
Fair enough
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I don't think they all belong in an auction, as I said. However, BST isn't a replacement for an auction if someone wants an auction.